look at it this way my ex has lied about the existance of om from the time she was caught by our kids. and refused all mc or ic saying there is nothing wrong with her. i chose to date and nc for about a month and i feel like a new man. almost! just remember only you know what your comfortable with.
Another thing that seems worth mentioning: There has been, over the last few months, a steady increase the amount of time she ascribes to marital problems (and magnitude). At the start of MC it was little annoyances and by this week it was unresolvable things ("it is just his personality and will never change"). I think the moment I really knew that she was in full-blown MLC mode was when she started saying "always" in this week's MC session. We've steadily moved from a few weeks to a few months to a few years and now "always".
Hearing always helped me to see just how far into rewriting history she's gone. ____________________________ "In the midst of winter, I found there was, within me, an invincible summer." -- Albert Camus
Me:39 WAW:38 M:9 T:19, No Kids EA/PA with co-worker:9/24, ILYBINILWY, S:9/25 EA/PA ongoing, MC 9/30-1/10
Grey, it's not pleasant. But it truly is a gift to see it this way. There is no wondering if she's off her rocker or not. I assure you, that's easier than what I went through, although no less painful I'm sure.
If it helps, mine did similar. She started with wanting to run away (fear - f*ck everything and run, right?), which progressed exactly like you describe - rewriting history, anger and spew toward me, always and never statements. She even tried to kick me out of my house. Went so far as to offer ex-sex if I would divorce her and leave. A lot of crazy. Still tries to maintain much of it and progressed to "diagnosing" me as bipolar and narcissistic without a shred of decency. She doesn't even remember much of that now from what I can tell. Has a Swiss-cheese memory of a lot of things. I don't talk to her if I can help it. Too much crazy for me
Hang in there and be good to yourself. It's not about you. It really isn't. As such, there isn't much you can do, and I promise that arguing with a fool is a waste of your time. It will get you nowhere. She has to figure it out for herself and there is no way around that.
Peace, AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
Taking time away from W has proven to be a good decision. I feel like I am able to detach, able to figure out my own way in the world. I'm not constantly bombarded by messages that I might read as positive or hopeful, not forced to undergo emotional agony as she shreds our marriage to bits at every MC meeting. In short, I've been able to heal and I feel stronger every day.
It was a very difficult decision to make and it isn't like I was "fed up" and wanted no contact. My heart is still on autopilot and wants to spend time with the "her" that was, but that person is gone. The counter-intuitive decision to have zero contact was the right decision.
I embarked on the dating website thing and I'm finding it stressful. Juggling too many pseudo-conversations with people I'm not terribly interested in. For whatever reason, I find myself thinking most about an old friend who I've been in touch with for the last few months and who has been incredibly supportive... but communication with her is infrequent and she lives in another part of the country. She went through something similar and gets what I'm experiencing.
I spent the weekend packing up W's stuff and putting it in the attic. It feels like losing a loved one (I guess, in most every sense, it is like that). I remember the good times but they feel more and more distant like a dream you can just catch a glimpse of after you wake. I wonder when they will slip away. I find my feelings very hurt by gifts that I gave her over the years that she abandoned here. Things I scrimped and saved for, sentimental things, all just left like junk. In some ways, that makes it harder than when someone dies - W made a decision to leave this stuff. I know it is just material stuff, but it is emotional nonetheless.
Still, I don't think I'll regret moving her stuff into the attic in the same way that I haven't regretted this "no contact" time. I'm finding some much needed peace and that will be what gets me through the rest of this mess. ____________________________ "In the midst of winter, I found there was, within me, an invincible summer." -- Albert Camus
Me:39 WAW:38 M:9 T:19, No Kids EA/PA with co-worker:9/24, ILYBINILWY, S:9/25 EA/PA ongoing, MC 9/30-1/10 No contact 1/10 - present
Oddly, in response to hearing what the aforementioned friend went through, I wrote this back in 2008.
"Even though W and I have been together for upwards of 13 years, she is still a mystery to me in many ways. There is something powerful and yet scary about that."
Had I only known just how scary. I guess that was a bit of a premonition. ____________________________ "In the midst of winter, I found there was, within me, an invincible summer." -- Albert Camus
Me:39 WAW:38 M:9 T:19, No Kids EA/PA with co-worker:9/24, ILYBINILWY, S:9/25 EA/PA ongoing, MC 9/30-1/10 No contact 1/10 - present
Hi Greymeadow, your quote: "Even though W and I have been together for upwards of 13 years, she is still a mystery to me in many ways. There is something powerful and yet scary about that."
I met my Ex W in Aug 1975. We got engaged May 77 and married April 81.
Somewhere around the mid 80's I remember looking at her in bed one nite and this entered my head: 'Who are you? who are you? I don't know you.' Fast foward to the mid 90's, again we were in bed and I was looking at her and I had the following feeling not a thought but just a feeling/sensation. So i'll try and describe the feeling. I got a feeling in my gut and I sensed that she was a stranger to me. I said after this event "you don't talk about your feelings do you?" She took it in but she didn't reply. And at other times I asked her about her feelings but still no reply.
This is to go with my last post to you Greymeadow, check it out on Y—T---
I knew I was in for some kind of special meaning that this song would have on me, even before he started the first line, I had goose bumps!
You see I’m a touchy feely, kinda person
‘Rod Stewart’ version 1995
Lyrics: Paul Buchanan
‘ The Downtown Lights’
Sometimes I walk away When all I really wanna do Is love and hold you right There is just one thing I can say Nobody loves you this way It's alright Can't you see? The downtown lights
In love we're all the same We're walking down an empty street And with nobody calling your name Empty streets, empty lives The downtown lights How do I know yo’ feel it? How do I know yo’ feel it? How do I know yo’ feel it? How do I know it's true? Can’t you see Nobody loves you this way, it's alright
Tonight and every night Let's go walking down the city street Let's walk in the cool evening light Wrong or right The endless sight The downtown lights It would be alright It would be alright The downtown lights, yeah, yeah, yeah
How do I know yo’ feel it? How do I know yo’ feel it? How do I know yo’ feel it? How do I know it's true? Can’t you see Nobody loves you this way It's alright, yeah, yeah, yeah
Downtown lights
The neon's and the cigarettes The rented rooms and rented cars The crowded streets, the empty bars Chimney tops, trumpets The golden lights, the loving prayers The coloured shoes, the empty trains I'm tired of crying, on the stairs Downtown lights
Coming up on one month since I asked for no contact and feeling better than I have in a really long time. I've been very focused on me and getting my house in order (literally and figuratively). I don't at all regret moving her stuff to the attic. It cleared out a lot of emotional space for me.
“Sorrow prepares you for joy. It violently sweeps everything out of your house, so that new joy can find space to enter. It shakes the yellow leaves from the bough of your heart, so that fresh, green leaves can grow in their place. It pulls up the rotten roots, so that new roots hidden beneath have room to grow. Whatever sorrow shakes from your heart, far better things will take their place.” ― Rumi
I went from wearing my wedding ring, to wearing it on a necklace, to not wearing it at all. Not wearing it at all happened by accident and then I never put it back on. I've also started just telling people what happened instead of skirting the issue. That also feels better. Saying it over and over again makes it a story that happened in the past instead of a trauma that is happening right now. I wasn't ready for that before but now I am. And I've discovered there are far more "survivors" out there than I imagined - many of whom I would never have known had lost a spouse without this happening to me.
The dating websites resulted in a string of phone calls and emails that just served to reinforce the feeling that nobody would ever measure up to my W (feels strange calling her that now). But then, out of the blue on a site that I'd not had much interaction on, someone extraordinarily interesting and attractive contacted me. I've since been on a date with her (first date in 19 years - not where I thought I'd be right now) and will see her again this weekend. I'm starting to just operative intuitively... if it feels right I'm going with it. That approach will probably not be popular here, especially with the hardcore standers, but I want this account to be a completely honest record.
I've gotten all sorts of advice, from saying I should have a meaningless one-night stand to I should take a long time off. In the end, our couples therapist suggested it was okay for me to keep the door open to reconciliation somewhere down the road but that it would be unhealthy for me to "wait" and not see other people. That did not resonate for me at first, but I abruptly turned the corner on that after this person came into the picture.
Partly, it is just nice to spend time with someone new who doesn't know my W and doesn't care about what happened. I think people in MLC tend to make everything about them. This came up in our final MC meeting when she accused me of punishing her by keeping the dog. Really, I want to keep the dog because I like having the dog for company in my big empty house. And the OM has a dog - so why does she need take mine?
It is nice that the time spent with the new person in my life IS all about me in some sense. I am seeing them because it is what feels right for me right now, and there is something healing about that. So very little has felt right since all of this happened, it is nice to feel something good again for a change.
____________________________ "In the midst of winter, I found there was, within me, an invincible summer." -- Albert Camus
Me:39 WAW:38 M:9 T:19, No Kids EA/PA with co-worker:9/24, ILYBINILWY, S:9/25 EA/PA ongoing, MC 9/30-1/10 No contact 1/10 - present
6 months check-in. I'm not sure these messages even belong on this forum anymore since I don't think there is any chance of reconciliation but it seems important to follow through and paint a complete picture of what happened.
I dated someone for about 6 weeks and it was nice while it lasted but she inexplicably called things off despite telling me that she really, really likes me. It was a brief moment of deja vu, but I'm moving on. That was the same weekend that I was going through withdrawal from anti-depressants (under doctor supervision of course). I'm feeling better off now that I've fully adjusted to being off of them. I continue to go to individual therapy bi-weekly. Not sure how much it is helping at this point, but I'm going to stick with it.
I have no contact with my XW (still no papers filed but it is pretty clear that there is no going back) aside from a text message when she's dropped off or picked up the dog on weekends. I honestly wish there wasn't that either but neither of us are going to be willing to give up the dog. You'd think given the fact that the OM has a dog, she wouldn't be so stuck on taking mine but she's obsessed for some reason. I'll never really understand her insanity - I've come to accept that.
Next month I'll be hauling all of her stuff out of the attic and leaving it in the garage for her to pick up. Hopefully she's not stupid enough to bring the OM with her - that would go badly for both of us I think.
I don't feel any real desire to pursue making a D official. How long do people wait to do that? I don't think I feel that way because I hope for reconciliation but rather I just don't want to be exposed to her insanity. If I can just forget about her entirely, it makes navigating my life much easier.
Looking forward to starting over at this point. Will probably try to sell my house and leave the area in the next year or two. Seems like MLC spouses should have to finance the relocation of the LBS... if only the world were that just. ____________________________ "In the midst of winter, I found there was, within me, an invincible summer." -- Albert Camus
Me:39 WAW:38 M:9 T:19, No Kids EA/PA with co-worker:9/24, ILYBINILWY, S:9/25 EA/PA ongoing, MC 9/30-1/10 No contact 1/10 - present
Trying to be faithful to my promise to keep posting the full story no matter the outcome. Maybe this will help someone who is going through the same thing. It has been 10 months now. My 180's stuck and became something I do for me, but she is so completely out of my life that they have no impact on our relationship or lack thereof. She picks up and drops off the dog on weekends. I don't know if she is still carrying on her affair or not, I don't know how she feels about anything at this point. We don't communicate at all.
Therapy has helped me work toward forgiving her for the betrayal. This definition from the Mayo Clinic really helped me to see that forgiveness was something to help me let go of anxiety and anger, not condoning her actions or justifying what she is doing:
"Forgiveness doesn't mean that you deny the other person's responsibility for hurting you, and it doesn't minimize or justify the wrong. You can forgive the person without excusing the act. Forgiveness brings a kind of peace that helps you go on with life."
Once I began to forgive (I no longer think about retribution which was mostly focused on her affair partner) I found that I could see her and not feel the same anxiety I'd previously felt. I am neutral now - not bending over backwards for her as I did in our 19 year relationship, but also not wasting emotional energy on negativity either. It feels like a weight has been lifted and I'm grateful for that.
I've also come to recognize her as an emotional manipulator who lacks empathy in ways that she never did before (not to the degree of a sociopath but in a way that makes her toxic to engage with). My sense is that goes hand-in-hand with MLC. For example, we went through mediation leading up to D and she'd said for months that she wanted me to have the house, then during our first mediation appointment she said she wanted the equity from the house - which would mean I'd have to sell. It was a real shock that she would lie so blatantly, but it goes back to her growing lack of empathy. She really does not care what happens to me at this point. I fundamentally don't recognize this person - she most certainly isn't the woman that I loved for most of my adult life.
I do not think D is avoidable at this point. I do miss my W - I feel like I was never given the chance to say goodbye to her before this new person who I don't recognize took her place. In some ways that loss feels similar to what I imagine the sudden death of a spouse might be like. Truly horrible and sad beyond words.
It is important for people in no-fault divorce states to understand that mediators, lawyers, and ultimately judges do not take into consideration the behavior of your spouse. In Massachusetts, everything is formulaic unless children are involved and the inclination is toward if 50/50 split of assets. Consequently, I felt like I was being blamed equally for the failure of the marriage despite being a model husband. It is a grossly unfair process (despite the repeated use of the term "fair and equitable" throughout the process). The mediator repeatedly said that it was like the dissolution of a business partnership, and when I pointed out that a business partner would sue to betrayer for "breach of contract", he just shrugged. In the end, do not be fooled into believing that morality will play any part in either a mediated or adjudicated process - it just won't.
____________________________ "In the midst of winter, I found there was, within me, an invincible summer." -- Albert Camus
Me:39 WAW:38 M:9 T:19, No Kids EA/PA with co-worker:9/24/12, ILYBINILWY, S:9/25/12 EA/PA ongoing, MC 9/30/12-present D mediation in progress
