Limbo Land II

[jzoom]

Something I got thinking about is the "don't believe anything they say and less than half of what you see" DB rule.

From reading DR I get the "what they say part". They're hurting and scared and will speak in absolute negatives about the R. Don't believe it b/c it's just angry talk from the fog.

What about the seeing part? Anybody have some insight? Examples?

[Tallula]

Well, here is the way I have seen it. H not wanting to touch me one day, the next day he is all lovey dovey. One day, looking for apartments, the next day starting long term home improvement projects.

Everything they do and say contradicts the next thing they do and say. Which is exactly why we need to take the focus off of them, and onto ourselves.

My H and I were talking last night and he said he has seen the huge changes in me, mostly that I'm acting more like myself before the kids came. He also sees these as permanant changes. But, he said I can't get out of my head how you use to react and then I react. He said he sees that our R could be different, but now it's him who he worries can change. So, if I had been judging what was going on in head by his actions and words, I would have believed he still thought our M was not salvagable.

[jzoom]

I see what you mean about the contridictions you were experiencing but I'm still confused.

Without regurgitating what I've already written I'm not sure how to explain it. What about when their words are negative and the actions seem to be in line.

For example, in my sitch, she says she doesn't want to get back together with me and she's happy with OM. She's living with OM, they're going out on dates, and there is very little negative talk about him and basically I'm non-existent. It's like she truly wants me out of her life completely and the more I LRT, go dark, I'm just giving her exactly what she wants so she can forget about me.

But, then, that's focusing on her. I just try and find comfort in those DB rules and could accept the "what they say" part b/c it gives me hope that it's the fog/EA/depression speaking and if I DB I stand a chance of getting her back b/c she's just trying to hurt me right now.

But I don't see actions on her part like getting lovey dovey with me or coming by the house when I'm around or anything...so how do I believe less than 50% of what I see?

Just confused and probably rambling here. I did have a good night last night and since it's a weekly meeting I'm going to go as often as I can.

I am thinking about starting to box up more of her stuff and put it away in the spare room so that I don't have to look at it everyday and if/when she comes by it has that look of: 12. Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude. & 17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.

[AnotherStander]

How is this not a step in the right direction? Maybe I didn't say it clearly. I'm questioning myself on, if she says she wants to come back, do I want her back?

I don't think you're to the point where you're seriously asking that question to yourself yet. Your sitch is still relatively young- she hasn't been out long and you haven't done much to GAL yet. You've still been heavily focused on trying to get her back. It won't be until you've really detached for a while that you start to seriously contemplate that question versus it just being part of the emotional roller coaster we're all on early in the process. To be honest I never have really asked myself that, I figured I would just cross that bridge if it ever showed up. I didn't really expect my W to ever want to R, so now that she's showing interest I'm finally having to wrestle with that question and it is not easy.

That if I get myself to where I need to be will I be better off with somebody else.

Full detachment is when you finally get to the point where you truly know in your heart that you will be fine with or without your GF. For me it took months of separation to get there (although in my case it was a 25 year relationship I was coming out of). There were times that I thought I was there only to cycle back through other emotions all over again. But once you get there for good you don't cycle anymore. And nothing your GF/ spouse does or says has any impact on you. When they do things it has no more impact on you than if it was a neighbor doing it. She's dating someone, so what. She's sleeping with someone, more power to her. She says you're a craptacular poopie head, you shrug it off. She says she wants to get back together, you tell her you have to really think that over. That's where you'll get if you fully detach.

[Starsky309]

I guess the fact in starting to question whether I want her back or not is a step in the right direction. Detaching. Trying to keep my mindset now that it's her loss and if she wants to work on an R with me it's up to her to prove it to me. Let her chase me instead of me chasing her.

There is a little hint as to why you don't understand detachment. What you think is actually "detachment" is actually enmeshment and co-dependency.


Starsky

[AnotherStander]

Without regurgitating what I've already written I'm not sure how to explain it. What about when their words are negative and the actions seem to be in line.

What the action part of that statement means is that if they appear to be perfectly happy in their new life then you shouldn't necessarily believe it because you do not know what's going on inside. In my W's case, she always seemed content, even excited about life on her own. She always seemed very happy when I saw her. It wasn't until RetroV weekend that she disclosed that she's been crying frequently ever since S but hiding it, and that she's been in extreme turmoil and confusion over what she's done. And it's been almost 5 months since she moved out. So all that happiness and contentment she's been showing was really nothing more than acting "as if" everything was fine. I know the rule, but she acted so well that I was convinced that she HAD moved on and was done, done, done. Had I known that she was still confused and not moving on, then I wouldn't have dropped the rope to the extent I have.

and the more I LRT, go dark, I'm just giving her exactly what she wants so she can forget about me.

You don't know what she wants. She probably doesn't know what she wants. You LRT as much for you as for her. You need the detachment and independence.

I am thinking about starting to box up more of her stuff and put it away in the spare room so that I don't have to look at it everyday and if/when she comes by it has that look of

Perfect. Do it. Remember how she reacted when you cleaned up? That was the biggest reaction you've gotten from her so far. It had an impact. Do what works.

[MrBond]

"I'm just giving her exactly what she wants so she can forget about me."

No you're just giving her what she wants. Period. It's not so she can forget about you.

[jzoom]

Thanks for all those responses, I'll go back through them and really think before commenting.

Tue I had asked about seeing the kids and she said "I don't know" so I just left that unanswered and went about my business. This morning I had to ask about a business matter and she said she's been busy but would get to it today. I said thanks and then brought up the kids again.

Texting:

Me 9:25am: I'd still like to see the kids, spend some time with them, and give *oldest child* & *baby* their birthday gifts. Could you bring them over one night next week (can't do Mon night b/c I work) or sometime next weekend?

Her 2:38pm: I work 7 days a week right now from 6 am until 9 pm



So, I know these aren't my kids and she doesn't have to do diddly. I know Tue she didn't work until 9pm, she off at 7pm. I also don't believe she would work solid 7 days a week with two of her kids bdays in the same week, the babies 1st bday, and her male friend who came in the store mentioned the bday party they're having. So, I'm pretty damn sure she's lying to me and honestly, it wouldn't be hard for me to find out if she's lying to me. It pisses me off that it's a lie for whatever reason (I'll avoid the mind reading this time around) and I don't want my emotions to get the best of me.

I know the calm, cool thing is to just say something along the lines of "Ok, could you keep it in mind for the week after?" Or, I want to say, "Ok, I understand, could I just pick up the kids one night after I get done at work and you can pick them up when you're done at work?" It's not like I haven't watched all three by myself before.

It feels like all passive-agressive punishment (I know, b/c I've done it plenty myself) to me. That she's just trying to stick it to me and hurt me b/c she can and it's an easy lie that I SHOULDN'T argue unless I truly am a douchebag.

[Tallula]

I see what you mean about the contridictions you were experiencing but I'm still confused.

Without regurgitating what I've already written I'm not sure how to explain it. What about when their words are negative and the actions seem to be in line.

For example, in my sitch, she says she doesn't want to get back together with me and she's happy with OM. She's living with OM, they're going out on dates, and there is very little negative talk about him and basically I'm non-existent. It's like she truly wants me out of her life completely and the more I LRT, go dark, I'm just giving her exactly what she wants so she can forget about me.

But, then, that's focusing on her. I just try and find comfort in those DB rules and could accept the "what they say" part b/c it gives me hope that it's the fog/EA/depression speaking and if I DB I stand a chance of getting her back b/c she's just trying to hurt me right now.

But I don't see actions on her part like getting lovey dovey with me or coming by the house when I'm around or anything...so how do I believe less than 50% of what I see?

Well, my H kept saying he was done with our M. Ignored me. Was barely civil. Done, done. Spending the night over at OW, sleeping on the couch. Now, even though we are separating more explained over at my thread, he sees a future & had been sleeping in our bed for 2 weeks. He spoke in absolute negatives. He told me he thought we were totally done. Now, 2 months later he sees a future for us.

They can be in total turmoil and not show it. You have no idea what is really going on in your wife's head, heck she probably doesn't either. I see more clearly now than ever why DB and everyone on these boards stresses detaching, GALs and 180s! The moment I really put my own needs at the top of the list regardless of what H would do, not only do I have more peace, but he sees that I am willing to live with or without him. No anger. Go have the space to figure out you. He now keeps saying his fear is that he will know he can change, and that I'll figure out I'm done. It may happen, who knows. But I just listened. I didn't even have the urge to say "Yeah, that could happen!!" Cause in the past I would have with the hope that it would scare him into not leaving. I'm not scared to be without him anymore. I'm sad. I do hope my M can be saved and awesome. But I'm willing to let him go, to find out. Might he start up with OW again? Maybe. But I choose to not spend much of my time worried about it. It's none of my business.

This stuff is hard. REALLY hard!

[jzoom]

Texting:

Me 9:25am: I'd still like to see the kids, spend some time with them, and give *oldest child* & *baby* their birthday gifts. Could you bring them over one night next week (can't do Mon night b/c I work) or sometime next weekend?

Her 2:38pm: I work 7 days a week right now from 6 am until 9 pm



I know the calm, cool thing is to just say something along the lines of "Ok, could you keep it in mind for the week after?" Or, I want to say, "Ok, I understand, could I just pick up the kids one night after I get done at work and you can pick them up when you're done at work?" It's not like I haven't watched all three by myself before.

I haven't responded at all, figured it was best to sit on this. I know I could just not respond at all and it wouldn't make things worse, in fact might just make her wonder.

Is it pursuing/chasing/begging/needy if I go with "Ok, I understand, could I just pick up the kids one night after I get done at work and you can pick them up later?"

If she says no then I don't argue or complain or beg. If she says yes I work out logistics. If I shouldn't ask at all then my next text will be, "Ok. Were you able to take care of *logistical issue she said she'd take care of today*?"