A Life Filled With Grace

[25yearsmlc]

Great posts, Val and Bug.

I too want to find forgiveness for W (and even OW) but am finding it difficult.

I find myself confused by both anger and forgiveness.

I usually, but not always, found that my anger prevented my forgiveness of others. It justified my withholding of forgiveness. But that's letting anger choose for me. And I know I dont want that.

The other block to forgiveness was of course fear. However irrational, it FELT as if I feared that by forgiving, I'd be "allowing" someone to hurt me, again. But that makes no sense.

Does it really follow that the forgiven person, who may not even need to KNOW they're forgiven, will repeat their behavior based on OUR reaction? NO it does not.

ESPecially if we forgive & don't mention it to them or don't even see them. They won't hurt us again BECAUSE we forgave them...

Today, I know better. Today, I know their behavior has nothing to do with whether I'm holding onto anger...or if it does, my anger only increases the chance they'd feel justified in hurting me, NOT my forgiving them.

Hope that makes sense.

When I think I am feeling forgiving toward W, I find myself feeling more vulnerable and also missing her more. Perhaps what I am feeling is not true forgiveness, which should set her free,

ah but this is not how I see it at all. Forgiving her, frees YOU, not her. It's not really about her at all. Seriously. It's all about you. I believe it's KEY for you to grasp this concept. You've heard that "forgiveness is a gift you give yourself". That's what it means and that is who it frees...YOU.




but a way to make allowances for her based on her past. I think my CO-D mucks it up.

When I feel angry, it is easier for me to separate myself from W, but then I don't feel good inside being angry.

My family was like yours Bug with a lot of emotional cut-off when people "hurt" us.

I hope that both of you will keep posting here. Val, I too have found that peace you describe with forgiving in so many other relationships and would like to find it with W.

I never saw forgiveness growing up. Didn't know what it looked like. It's a learned skill. And it IS freeing and it IS peaceful.

But in our marriage vows, for some reason, mostly they say "from this day forward".

maybe the reason is for us to let go of what happened in the past b/c it passed.

Go from here, "from this day forward".

[labug]

25, I'm happy you've brought that understanding of the phrase "from this day forward" to all of us.

I always thought of the wedding day as THE day from which you stepped out 'from this day forward'

But we do have that choice, every day.

[Rick1963]

I never saw forgiveness growing up either. It was not allowed. It was considered weak. If someone hurt you that person needed to be punished and punished hard. I didn't have that in me. I always let it go as long as my dad did not become aware. Once I came home with a fat lip. My dad woke me up the next morning and followed me to school. The kid I argued with the day before was across the st. He told me go up to him and smack him down. If he doesn't see you even better..... That was a really bad experience. I can say with all honesty that I'm able to forgive and let go. Is it forgiveness or letting go of the anger, I dunno. That is a gray line for me.

I am definetly not angry with exw or myself. I am very sad at the outcome. I'm sad for her, and my D. For some reason I'm not as sad for myself anymore. So forgive yourself, stop beating yourself for what happened and grow from this.

[keep_going]

Ha! This is where the action is... Thanks, bug and Val for sending me here and for sharing. I once again find myself comforted by the knowledge that I am not alone.
Yes anger and forgiveness. I don't think I will ever get to forgiveness until I let go of the anger. Or perhaps both need to happen simultaneously?

Rick - I am so sorry you had to go through that experience. Yes, our parents meant well, but not always got it right. For them as for us, they did the best they could with the tools they had, right? Funny - I posted earlier on my new thread exactly this same phrase "I never saw forgiveness growing up. (((rick1963)))

I usually, but not always, found that my anger prevented my forgiveness of others. It justified my withholding of forgiveness. But that's letting anger choose for me. And I know I dont want that.

The other block to forgiveness was of course fear. However irrational, it FELT as if I feared that by forgiving, I'd be "allowing" someone to hurt me, again. But that makes no sense.

Does it really follow that the forgiven person, who may not even need to KNOW they're forgiven, will repeat their behavior based on OUR reaction? NO it does not.

Today, I know better. Today, I know their behavior has nothing to do with whether I'm holding onto anger...or if it does, my anger only increases the chance they'd feel justified in hurting me, NOT my forgiving them.

25 - Thanks for putting into words what I feel about the fear behind my anger. Yes, I do feel like if I forgive my H, I will allow him to continue hurting me. Yes, his actions will not change regardless of my forgiveness...

THANK YOU.
It seems so simple and clear like that. (I just wished it was as easy to let go of the fear - lol...)

I never saw forgiveness growing up. Didn't know what it looked like. It's a learned skill. And it IS freeing and it IS peaceful.

Yes, forgiveness is for ourselves and I understand that it could be learned skill. And I want to learn it too. The question is how???

[Valeska19]

Yes, forgiveness is for ourselves and I understand that it could be learned skill. And I want to learn it too. The question is how???

My opinion... try it on others.

That dude that cuts your off in the highway.. forgive him vs. getting angry.

The co-worker that is a complete bi@tch to you for NO reason - forgive him.

IMO - Forgiveness is kinda the next logical step after DBing.

I mean - We have already spent the time validating their feelings. Eventually we stop faking it and truly understand that its their opinion and perspective.

It's REALLY hard to validate AND be angry at the same time.

Without the anger, it's hard to NOT forgive.

The 2nd part is that I try to focus on all of the good things that have come from the D.

My work, my new friendships, my healthy body, making amends with my dad... were made possible from my D.

And although it is unfortunate... there is so much good now.. it's hard not to appreciate it.

It won't always be a "fake it till you make it" situation. But until that time comes - you gotta fight against yourself. Against being a victim.. or the pity party.

And just like anything else. Practice makes perfect and it all gets easy in time.

[Valeska19]

I agree to an extent.

It is often in times of anger, that we can the strength to move forward.....

... outside of that though.. it serves no real positive purpose..... at least for ME.

[Valeska19]

***It is often in times of anger, that we can FIND the strength to move forward.....

[25yearsmlc]

From Keep Going---
"Yes, forgiveness is for ourselves and I understand that it could be learned skill. And I want to learn it too. The question is how???"

Absolutely that ^^ is the biggest question and challenge for me. I guess the first part to grasp was that indeed, forgiving would free me (my anger was consuming ME & MY time...) and that forgiving would NOT risk further hurt or cause more painful behaviors from my h.

Second, okay so we "get it". We know we want to forgive. We even decide to do so. But, now what? HOW? Yes, I think as Val says, practicing forgiveness does help. Absolutely, but it means in part knowing what it is.

I also think that seeing our spouse through God's eyes helps. It's NOT easy but it's sort of simple. And when we see ourselves as we truly are, in HIS eyes, beauty AND warts and all, we are not scary unlovable monsters underneath all those layers...which is what we fear.

We are humans with good hearts who want to love and be loved. We've made mistakes and our heart might be covered with layers of fear or hurt...God knows, literally, that we have our regrets. But life is a long learning process, isn't it?

All we can do is our true best, and then leave the results up to God.

Here's something I heard long ago at Essential Experience and posted here awhile back. See if it helps.



Or the World Will End...

And so it happened that the skies everywhere turned dark and thunderous and suddenly a loud Deep voice from above, said "THE WORLD WILL END IN 7 DAYS."

Upon hearing this, people everywhere noticed that suddenly everyone's faces began to change colors or bore marks. Their faces bore the colors & marks of their sins.

For instance, some had green lines on their face for envy or jealousy, red for lust, or their foreheads had "A" on them for adultery, "T" for thieves, etc. "L" for liars, etc.
"C" for coveting, "M" for murderers...

The next day, a voice from above AGAIN said "THE WORLD WILL END IN 6 DAYS"...

Now, people began to hide as they realized the meaning of the markings.

Politicians wore bags on their heads, and celebrities began wearing hats and head coverings so no one could see their sins.

Others avoided seeing their neighbors or families and stayed isolated.

People wondered what had happened and governments thought their enemies had tried to intimidate them. Others thought a cruel prank had been played on them.

The next day the same clouds hovered over and the same loud voice told everyone everywhere, "THE WORLD WILL END I N 5 DAYS."

This alarmed people as they began to wonder what it could mean, and where the voice came from.

The next day the same things happened and the voice said "THE WORLD WILL END IN 4 DAYS. "

People began to arm themselves & prepared for an attack or a plague. Some began to fight with those who had betrayed them And those they feared.

When the voice came the next day & said "THE WORLD WILL END IN 3 DAYS", the wealthy people began to give their wealth away and others did acts of service & favors for others...

There was growing panic. Many began to flee the cities. Some of them hid.

Then the voice said THE WORLD WILL END IN 2 DAYS" and everyone began to gather in churches, synagogues, mosques and temples of all sorts. Some built NEW churches, synagogues and mosques.

They prayed & prayed, but still the voice said,

THE WORLD WILL END IN ONE DAY.""

In one home, a couple looked out their window at the clouds gathering.

The husband had the red mark of Adultery on his forehead and the wife had the green marks of jealousy & envy on hers...

The husband saw the darkest of the clouds & he turned to his wife and said

"I hope you know you are the only woman I ever truly loved. Can you please forgive me for how I hurt you?"

She said "Yes, I do forgive you. I was so angry. Can you forgive me for my built up resentments & the cutting remarks I made?"

And he too, said, "yes, I forgive you."

Suddenly, the marks on their faces vanished.

Suddenly, their faces cleared completely as they held each other tightly hugging--AND FORGIVING….

They realized why this had happened, & the word quickly spread.

Brothers who had been estranged for years, put aside their resentments,
and embraced,

couples let go of their painful pasts, their lists of grievances, and reunited.

Former business enemies shook hands,

Warring nations, tribes with feuds, each stopped to reach out & make peace,

for they FORGAVE each other…

and the faces cleared as did the skies above…

Forgiveness cleansed the world, and the world was saved.

[Valeska19]

this is all great... I wanna keep talking about forgiveness because it's really an important part of my life currently....

but just to tangent for a sec .....

My car is a P.O.S... and today it overheated... so that's going to be added to the other things that I've been procrastinating getting fixed (with my mechanic)....

... or not.

I've wanted a white soft top jeep for sometime now. I'm going to look Saturday morning.

The heart is such a weird thing. This car has SOO many good memories. I was with xw when she bought it. we had been together only 5 months.

I've lost quite a few things from my D. My furniture, my other car, my two kittens... I even accidentally broke a few coffee cups that she bought me. Each time..I have cried. Struggling to let go.. as if things were the ONLY thing I have left from my past life.

What's new... is that I don't feel this with "Trooper". I will be sad to see her go. She 's been through so much and there are SO many good memories.

But I'm not finding a reason to hang on. I thinking practically vs emotionally. There is no internal battle except what is financially best.. getting a new car vs. fixing her AGAIN.

A jeep is exciting! It'll be the 1st car that's mine really. One that I get to chose.

I shouldn't actually say a jeep caz I don't know if I can afford it... but MAN I WANT ONE SO BAD!!!!!

[2thepoint]

A jeep is exciting! It'll be the 1st car that's mine really. One that I get to chose.

I shouldn't actually say a jeep caz I don't know if I can afford it... but MAN I WANT ONE SO BAD!!!!!

Val, if it is something you want and need to be able to claim as your own, then you should go for it! If money is a concern then consider buying one that is used but "certified pre-owned" You'll get a nearly new car of your choice for much less than the new car price and it will still be under warranty.