W will do what she wants. Time for ME and D3 !!

[swoop]

I think my only advice is to be concise and factual. Obviously, your session is a timed event. The more informative you can be, in the least amount of time, the better. Don't spend too much time ramlbing on. You might want to take some time and make some notes. It also would be a good idea to take notes on what your coach tells you to do. I got lost during my first convo and had to have him reiterate during my second convo....a lose/lose.

Good luck, and let us know what your coach offers

[25yearsmlc]

have at least 3 questions written in advance. Limit it to 6.

have a THUMBNAIL sketch of your marriage for the background history and let THEM ask you what they think is relevant. Length of marriage, educations of each, professions, kids age. ANY drinking/drugs and what the sex issues were AND whatever else SHE SAID, regardless of your opinion of her comments.

IMO, you tend to give far too much unhelpful detail, which will prevent you from HEARING THEIR words and that's what you need.

You need Their advice about what to do NOW, not WHY YOU THINK she did whatever, years ago, or what the past was, or your analysis and yada yada

WHat you think is relevant won't be the same to them.

be ready to take notes, AND to take it in. Ask them to clarify if you don't know what they mean and don't be selective in what you "hear" them say. Hear it all.

I took so many notes. Later I shortened some for my "mantras" and affirming little proverbs for me to be motivated. Eventually it was my own "list of <10 things to do" (and a few "not to do's)

It helps.

I ended up buying about 12=15 sessions and imo, it's why I'm still married.

[SM34]

25, suckerpunch, thank you for the advice,

I actually emailed my db coach the background so we can jump right in with the questions she has for me.

I am really interested in what laurie will have to offer for my sitch. I'm going to spend some time reading DR tonight since W is at OM house and free.

Will let you all know how it goes tomorrow after session.

[2chiquitos]

Laurie was my coach and I really liked her. I got 6 sessions and it helped me get started.

[Crimson]

I never had a session as most of my discretionary funds were tied up in the litigation process!

I guess all I can reasonably tell you would be to continue to wipe your head 100% clean of what you THOUGHT you knew. By now, you should have arrived at the point where you realize at best it was flawed....at worst - dead wrong.

Also, and I say this because I did it at the stage you were in, stop looking for immediate cause and effect relationships in your words and actions. It is human nature to seek these out, but it is not helpful to the road you are currently on. It ties back to control (illusion of?) and the comfort we derive from it. "If I....then wife willl...." we think we can predict actions and protect ourselved from pain and uncertainty.- right now that is just not going to work for you. Don't know why, but I have been wanting to tell you that.

[SM34]

Crimson,, Veroprada, thank you so much for your encouragement/tips.

Crimson you are absolutely right. It has been two solid months now and I have learned not to keep my finger on the pulse as they say. I do notice my W warming up as time goes by, but I do not know her motives or what she is thinking so I don't get too excited about it. I am focused on me, and trying to fix my financial issues which are the main reason of the breakdown in our marriage.

(Bad finances caused me to be depressed, lower my sev drive, wife pulled back on her words of affirmation, I withdrew, sex broke down).

Anyway, please read my next post. I need help from EVERYONE now, more than ever. The phone coaching went great and Laurie was awesome in encouraging me and making me realize that the way my W is acting towards me is most likely quite positive. Read my next post.

[SM34]

NEED HELP PROCESSING MY FIRST DB COACHING SESSION!! ALL HANDS ON DECK PLS!

Ok So my first coaching session ever was yesterday with Laurie. It went great, and Laurie is awesome, so glad I did that.

The hour was so short, the quickest hour since BD =)

So here is want I have been assigned to do, and I need help processing HOW and WHY to do these things. Laurie said to call her in a week or two for second session, but only when I had tried these things and have answers.

1) Laurie is concerned about how close the Zoloft prescription was to the date of BD. It was 4 weeks on 50mg, followed by less than 1 week on 100mg and then BD. When W first went on Zoloft, she told me "I hope we can fix the issues with D3 daycare and our finances so I can not feel so anxious. If we want a brother or sister for D3 we need to do it soon, and I can't be taking Zoloft if I'm going to be pregnant". So to me that didn't sound like someone planning an exist and Laurie agreed.

MIL is bipolar and it runs in her family. W has never been screened for this, and so there is a concern there from my MIL and Laurie since wife not mentioning wanting to leave me to her therapist seems odd. So the first "Goal" is to try to have MIL convince W to go get screened or at least get evaluated by a DIFFERENT therapist than the one that prescribed the Zoloft but doesn't see any change in W behavior.

2) This is the IMPORTANT goal that I need help with. W's LL is physical touch. Laurie says that since your wife believes your M was sex starved and that is the reason she is in an active A, I need to experiment with offering some physical touch and see how she responds.

Laurie says you can expect some pulling back from W, but make note of what works and what doesn't for our next phone session.

I told her W gets migraines from neck tension, so I had given her a neck rub one day when she had a headache and she enjoyed that a lot. So she said GOOD, try to do that when you get a chance, but only when she requests or shows a need for it. Do not do it in a pursuing fashion

Also, she said I should try to offer light touch, like perhaps pating her on the back sometimes, or touching her arm he or there. Also, to see if I can sit next to her on the couch for example, without W moving away.

So, any tips on this? Anyone have something to add or expand?

How come this is the reverse of what I have been doing? I have been withholding all affection and also mainting physical distance but Laurie wants to see if W will let me come closer physicallly, and perhaps allow some physical touch.

Is this just to establish if there are feelings for me? I am confused.

Laurie said there definitely might be some distancing from W after you try some of this but don't worry about it too much because your W and you have very positive interactions so far. She obviously doesn't HATE me.

Laurie also thought there was cake eating obviously. And that W may be undecided. So I guess this is the way to gauge her feeling?

Please leave me with your comments and suggestions on touch that is not pursuit etc..

Thanks everyone!

[AnotherStander]

1) Laurie is concerned about how close the Zoloft prescription was to the date of BD.

Set this aside, even if it is a contributing factor there's just nothing you can do about it. It's outside your "sphere of influence" as Stephen Covey would say. You can't get her off the med's, and if you try to she's just going to see it as you refusing to deal with what she sees as the real problem---- YOU.

MIL is bipolar and it runs in her family. W has never been screened for this, and so there is a concern there from my MIL and Laurie since wife not mentioning wanting to leave me to her therapist seems odd.

So the first "Goal" is to try to have MIL convince W to go get screened or at least get evaluated by a DIFFERENT therapist than the one that prescribed the Zoloft but doesn't see any change in W behavior.

Let me just ask you a question for you to reflect on, you don't need to answer it here. Are you sure you are hearing EVERYTHING Laurie told you and not just hearing what you want to hear? Because clearly, from everything you've posted before in this thread and others you want badly to believe there is some medical condition with your W that can be fixed to make everything "normal" again. I suspect you want your W screened for bipolar because you have become so convinced that there is something wrong with her. So if Laurie said something like "well DB'ing is all about focusing on yourself, so even though there might be a small chance that your W should be checked for being bipolar, you should make this about changing you." You would be inclined to hear "blah blah blah your W should be checked for being bipolar blah blah blah". Without a transcript we don't know exactly what was discussed, but normally everyone here advises to NEVER talk to in-laws about your W, your sitch or anything other than light fluffy "how's the weather" talk. Because it WILL get back to your W and she WILL blame you for trying to side against her. I've seen it over and over again here. It seems like a risky path to me to try and convince MIL to talk to W about getting tested for bipolar, because the chances are 99.999% that W will find out that you're behind it, and she will see that as (see #1 response above).

2) This is the IMPORTANT goal that I need help with. W's LL is physical touch. Laurie says that since your wife believes your M was sex starved and that is the reason she is in an active A, I need to experiment with offering some physical touch and see how she responds.

It sounds like Laurie was pretty clear on what you should try, I would just stick with what she told you and monitor the results to report back to her.

How come this is the reverse of what I have been doing?

It's the cheeseless tunnels concept- try something different and monitor the results, if it doesn't work then try something else. She's not saying this will work, she's saying try it out and see what happens. She's just mixing things up a little.

Is this just to establish if there are feelings for me? I am confused.

Not really to check for feelings, but just to check and see if she's receptive to it at all.

[SM34]

AS, I would like clarify the meds point. Laurie asked me if anything unusual had happened within the months leading to BD. So I mentioned the meds. Also that bipolar disorder runs heavily in W family. Laurie ignored it initially.

Then when she asked about marriage status of my parents and W parents, I told her MIL was a WAW herself and later diagnosed with bipolar disorder. I told her ever since BD,.MIL was the one that keeps telling me it's the meds, I bet you my daughter is bi polar, i'm going to tell her to go to second opinion with a different therapist.

I learned in the first few days after BD that me suggesting to W it's her meds was not going well at all because like you said she took it as me blaming her and not me. I back tracked from that quickly and made sure she knew I was sorry for my part in the failure, and that I am working on fixing my faults for future R.

I will not go near that subject with wife again. But MIL is dead set on getting her in to see HER therapist. I will leave that to mother daughter family.

The reason W actions seemed odd to laurie is that she didn't mention unhappy M to therapist, mentioned second child shortly before, and then BD after meds, and family history. She just thought if there is a way to rule that out, then we should try to.

Also that W is not exhibiting so much anger towards me which is usually typical, so perhaps meds are suppressing that anger.

So any ideas of how to work a light touch into the mix? I haven't tried to touch her inin 2 months, except for the neck rub. I am lost.

I saw on someone elses thread who had a similar sitch, their coach even suggested a huh! Laurie made it clear it should only be light touch and only if W asks or seems to be in the right mood. I have to use my judgment on when that is.

[25yearsmlc]

NEED HELP PROCESSING MY FIRST DB COACHING SESSION!! ALL HANDS ON DECK PLS!

Ok So my first coaching session ever was yesterday with Laurie. It went great, and Laurie is awesome, so glad I did that.

The hour was so short, the quickest hour since BD =)

So here is want I have been assigned to do, and I need help processing HOW and WHY to do these things.

save yourself some time and ASK HER WHY...we can maybe help with "how" but only she can tell you why she says what she says.

We're all only guessing. And seriously, YOU need to ask then & there if you don't know why you are doing something.

It's crucial you know why you do what you do. Live your life with intention. Especially now. Always know why you are doing or saying what you are doing or saying. Always.

Laurie said to call her in a week or two for second session, but only when I had tried these things and have answers.

1) Laurie is concerned about how close the Zoloft prescription was to the date of BD. It was 4 weeks on 50mg, followed by less than 1 week on 100mg and then BD.

Laurie makes her recommendations based on the information YOU, and ONLY YOU, provide. Don't forget that.


When W first went on Zoloft, she told me "I hope we can fix the issues with D3 daycare and our finances so I can not feel so anxious. If we want a brother or sister for D3 we need to do it soon, and I can't be taking Zoloft if I'm going to be pregnant". So to me that didn't sound like someone planning an exist and Laurie agreed.

and YOU can do what about ANY of this^^^????? Oh, Nothing...




MIL is bipolar and it runs in her family. W has never been screened for this, and so there is a concern there from my MIL and Laurie since wife not mentioning wanting to leave me to her therapist seems odd. So the first "Goal" is to try to have MIL convince W to go get screened or at least get evaluated by a DIFFERENT therapist than the one that prescribed the Zoloft but doesn't see any change in W behavior.

you have said YOU noticed huge differences in your w's behavior when she went on/off Zoloft. Now you say YOU don't see any change, or your MIL doesn't, or what?? Get the facts and stories straight. I find this very inconsistent.

I don't mean to misconstrue OR have you misquote Laurie (and you have misquoted me) but I cannot imagine this endeavor being very fruitful. AND

BTW, in one study of the American Psychiatric Association, they found that 90% of married women taking ADs had husbands described as "critical" or "very unsupportive". Granted, it's THEIR perspective but hey, that's why they are seeking therapy.

Food for thought.

2) This is the IMPORTANT goal that I need help with. W's LL is physical touch. Laurie says that since your wife believes your M was sex starved and that is the reason she is in an active A, I need to experiment with offering some physical touch and see how she responds.

Laurie says you can expect some pulling back from W, but make note of what works and what doesn't for our next phone session.

I told her W gets migraines from neck tension, so I had given her a neck rub one day when she had a headache and she enjoyed that a lot. So she said GOOD, try to do that when you get a chance, but only when she requests or shows a need for it. Do not do it in a pursuing fashion


So, do that^^^. Don't act as if you think it'll lead anywhere else or that you are wanting sex (but make sure to compliment her appearance at a different time so she knows you find her attractive). Just do the neck rub to help her feel better. This seems simple enough.


Also, she said I should try to offer light touch, like perhaps pating her on the back sometimes, or touching her arm he or there. Also, to see if I can sit next to her on the couch for example, without W moving away.

So, any tips on this? Anyone have something to add or expand?


I feel as if this is pretty self explanatory. Are you new to this type of touching?

How come this is the reverse of what I have been doing?

What are you asking us here? I mean, why don't YOU tell us why it's the reverse of what you have been doing?

No one here said to avoid her. No one here said be distant. Are you confusing the word "Distant" with "Detachment"? They are not the same but we've been over this many times SM. What is your question? Can you elaborate on it b/c I'm not sure what you are asking here.

We said "do what works", & "don't be a doormat" (so do not pay for your wife to go see OM).

No one said not to touch her and no one said to make her feel you are not attracted to her. In fact we said the opposite. She needs to feel desired. One comment she made I found interesting was about her desire to lose weight and get in shape.

Think back...did you EVER tell her she needed to lose the baby weight or exercise more? I'm not judging you for it if you did, but it is very hurtful to women to hear that and then believe they are not as attractive to their h's. When you couple those comments with your evident drop in sexual advances, can you see how that might affect her?

And fwiw, my son was seriously involved with a lingerie model out on the east coast. She's very successful. In real life, She was underweight by maybe 15-20 lbs., but in photo spreads, she looked perfectly built. Yes The camera really does add weight, visually.

Anyhow, this beautiful woman was VERY insecure about her looks, when she gained more than 2 lbs. I mean that literally.

When she had a weight gain of more than 2lbs, she went on a very very strict diet. The reality is that our society has a strong focus on being thin, as if it = beauty, AND anyone overweight is seen as undesirable, unsexy and possibly lazy.

The cruel irony is that we have a largely overweight nation, so we're sort of sabotaging ourselves a lot here. A self inflicted unhappiness.



I have been withholding all affection and also mainting physical distance but Laurie wants to see if W will let me come closer physicallly, and perhaps allow some physical touch.

Is this just to establish if there are feelings for me? I am confused.


No one can explain to you what Laurie meant nearly as well as SHE can, (btw, why didn't you ask her?)

But it's not shocking advice to give, in my opinion. Your wife was in a marriage that was not romantically or physically/sexually satisfying to her... I know for a fact that I questioned your with holding approach.

I said your approach basically let you off the hook (doing nothing-taking no action on your end, was what your plan was). It seemed to focus only on HER and what's wrong with HER or going on with HER and only recently you say you are working on you.

BUT STILL even now, most of your posts relate to HER history and HER medication use, NOT what YOU are doing.

Withholding affection was not a suggestion I recall you getting.

DETACHING is another matter.....

Laurie said there definitely might be some distancing from W after you try some of this but don't worry about it too much because your W and you have very positive interactions so far. She obviously doesn't HATE me.

Laurie also thought there was cake eating obviously. And that W may be undecided. So I guess this is the way to gauge her feeling?


I don't know what you are asking us now. Is what, a "way to gauge" her feeling? You mean, are Her reactions to your non sexual touching a gauge?

I'll assume that's your question and I'd say YES it's a way of measuring how she feels. But I caution you BIG TIME NOT to over analyze her reaction the first 10 times you do it (UNLESS she pushes you away. Her pushing you away would be clarity on her end that she is not presently interested in your touching.)
[b]
MY GUESS is that if she trusts that the touching is meant for HER COMFORT, and not given with strings attached or any expectations of more from her, then she'll accept it.[/b]

Make sure you are clear when you rub her neck or back. Maybe Ask if it's okay w/her if you "try to rub the knots out" or "see if a neck rub makes it feel better"...

I also think she might not SAY she wants one, out loud. She may just look tired or seem sore or exhausted, etc. You can offer a rub b/c maybe she's "been running after d3 all day" or something similar.

If you think the topic won't come up, then ASK about your d's day...was d3 "very active today"??...and then perhaps you can assume that her neck or back hurts or that she may have a headache,etc...

SM, did you give her back rubs before all this, other than as foreplay?

You would not be the first man to say "no".

Sometimes I don't think my h is capable of it - I don't mean to disrespect him w/that comment, but he has to REALLY Focus on it as something to help me heal, OR it leads to us being intimate. Like almost every time and within just a few minutes. So I'd LOVE a back massage for 30 minutes first....but hey, it's Just how he rolls...


So if this is new to you, then it'll be new to her too. She won't know what to make of it. It might confuse her at first. So you can say something casual about it to her so she doens't feel pressured.
She may well be unclear about what you are doing b/c it is new and different. So HER reactions might not be clear or consistent for awhile. So don't over think this.


Please leave me with your comments and suggestions on touch that is not pursuit etc..

Thanks everyone!

Touching that is NOT pursuit, is touching not intended as foreplay...such as a back massage NOT leading to sex.

it's touching for HER benefit only (i.e., HER comfort, reduction of HER pain, etc) without your expectation of it going any further.

Does that help clarify?