Heavy Lifting Solo

[Breakdown]

Copying 25's comments from another thread here so as to not hijack that thread:

Breakdown, I've posted a few times about Retrovaille. Did I post to YOU about it?

If I had, I'd have made sure to tell you NOT To care or notice or even be aware of what your spouse is doing or getting out of it.

Seriously, it distracts and often undermines our view of them, so OUR WORK is affected too.

I had read about retrouvaille here, but didn't get any direct advice. I only joined the forum about a week before our weekend. That said, I did completely focus on me for the weekend...it was sharing after the very last exercise where my expectations got in the way.

In case someone else can benefit, I'll use this post if that's alright with you.

Absolutely.

Yeah, I think retrouv helped....even though W said she didn't buy into all of it, she said the communication pieces were useful. She said she was more able to discuss her feelings afterward.

Interestingly you say nothing here^^ of what YOU got out of it in terms of improving as a partner. Just what she said, that she got out of it. And that was presumably right then at the end or shortly after. For me, I had some revelations weeks later as did my h. And we did the follow up program that comes with Retrovaille.

May I assume you did not do that follow up? It is SO HELPFUL...

That's a very good point when sharing my story with others. For me though, at this point I'd already been working at trying to save the M for 18 months. I felt like most of the material we went over I had already covered by then and bought into it. That said, I thought the program did a superb job of condensing what took me 18 months into 3 days. And even so, there were parts that were new and helpful. I'd definitely do it again.

And yes, we did the follow ups, and I agree, they are really key for the program.

I was hoping she'd forgive me during that weekend, but she didn't. I was hoping she'd choose to love me, but she didn't. That's why I say focus on you and keep your expectations in check...everyone's pace is different.
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wow that is a lot to expect to happen in 72 hours. IF she had decided she WANTED to begin the process of forgiving, that might have been more realistic but even then, it's interesting that your focus was not on what YOU could to do reassure her so she'd feel safe enough to forgive.

A big reason some do not forgive, is not always anger but FEAR...

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I don't think I expected it to happen over that weekend, but I was thinking she might see that she had a choice when it came to forgiving and loving. At this point, maybe she has...I don't know. As I said, everyone's pace is different and while my W may not have bought into the program the whole way thru, she may still be going about it her own way.

And totally agree with the fear comment. We actually discussed that last weekend in the midst of the D discussion.

For this past weekend, the trigger was our first court date Monday. W filed in Sept after a big fight and as awesome as I thought things had been over the last few months, the court date forced a discussion about D and M which W has a difficult time with.

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can you put the focus back on YOU and what YOU are doing to GAL and become the man you want to become?

it's all you control, after all... [/quote]

Absolutely. The thing I've gotten away from as I thought our sitch improved was GAL so I'm loading back up on that now. I'm also digging back into some of the books I hadn't had time to finish.

Really day to day, my sitch is pretty good. We get along great, are communicating better than we ever have, work with each other parenting, hang out with each other quite a bit, laugh, ML, etc.. But every time we have any serious discussion regarding our M, she gets upset and defensive and then lashes out. It happened last week regarding the court date (which I think is unavoidable) and it happened last night regarding OM calling (again, unavoidable given a prior agreement we made regarding contact with him at our home).

[Breakdown]

Journal:

Not much to update, but I did have a super week of GAL and I did turn down an invitation from W. Both seem to have worked better than I would have imagined, at least in the short term.

I basically went out Tue-Thur this week, with Thur being a wine-tasting I went to alone. I was a little uncomfortable at first, but it didn't take long for the ladies around me to ask me questions about some of my travels, my favorite wines, etc. I forgot how interesting I was! It was a nice little ego boost and I really had a blast.

Last night before W got home I went to have a beer with a friend. I was just planning to have a beer or two and then grab some pizza for the kids on my way home. W texts me and asks if I'm busy....at this point, she's almost assuming I am. She goes on to tell me she's having a beer with a friend of ours and ask me if I have time to join them. She says she's only having 1 beer, but ask if I want to grab sushi after.

All that seems rather normal, but when I got to the bar, W's face lit up and she was genuinely excited to see me. She grabbed me and kissed me and we had a great time. We then went for sushi and W's getting all frisky with me at the table. Man, I really missed that....that feeling that my W actually likes me.

Next week I'm heading out of town for 3 days to see friends for the superbowl (yay GAL!) and I've already started planning a trip to San Diego for myself, hopefully in April.

[Breakdown]

The message at church this morning really hit home with me. The scripture is Peter 3:8-9:

8 Finally, all of you, be like-minded, be sympathetic, love one another, be compassionate and humble. 9 Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult. On the contrary, repay evil with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing.

I think it's a great message regardless whether you are religious or not. It really made me think of DB and how that type of behavior is what we are working towards.

At one point the pastor said something like "put aside that you have been wronged...." and I immediately thought about my W telling me a few weeks ago during a discussion about D that she felt "wronged." I hope she's listening as closely to these messages as I am!

[Spartan]

Glad you're getting so much GALing in. Sounds like you're having a blast. How is the new workout program going? I reinjured my shoulder again so looks like just running for the next week or two.

Peter 3 was in my sermon this morning also. It's a great piece of scripture to remember.

While sitting there near the end I wondered what my W thought of our message. I'm guessing she didn't hear the same message I heard but it sure would be nice if she did.

[Breakdown]

Haven't started the new workout yet. I just finished the ultimate reset and you're not supposed to workout during it. I was already skinny and I lost another 11# (and I was cheating that last week so I didn't lose any more!).

I am just doing a P90X/Insanity hybrid for the next week or two to get back into it, and then I start the body beast. I'm going out of town this weekend so I wanted to wait til that was over. I did do some nutrition mapping today...gonna be interesting to say the least! I have been eating <1000 calories per day and been vegan for 3 weeks...now I'm jumping up to 2600!

[Breakdown]

Journal:

After church today, W wanted to round everyone up for a house cleaning. All in all, I think it's fine, except we all worked on loading wood for the house yesterday for 4-5 hours so everyone is a bit sore and tired. I wanted the kids to clean their rooms and such, but I wanted to give them a little time to do so. W wanted it done before she left for a work meeting in 1 hr and pressed everyone to comply. The kids got upset and frankly, so did I. I was ok with the request, but the attitude was really aggressive. W told everyone to forget it...she'd do it herself, got pissed, worked, and then left. We all chipped in, but there was no more discussion.

When W gets home 5 hr later, we discuss, but W is adamant about her position. She brings up things from 25 years ago to support her behavior, which I say makes no sense. I say in all honesty that everything has to be her way, that she's bossy and controlling, and while I was an ass at the beginning of our M, she has taken the reigns. After 20-30 mins of discussion, she decides she is moving into the spare room until D is final.

Frankly, I feel like I was understanding and tried to discuss. When W gave up and ran again, I was simply fed up and said "fine." She said something stupid like "I hope you have 15 dates between now and the end of the month so you can know your choice was right." I simply replied, "this is not my choice."

I'm so worn out with this all. I do love my W with all my heart, and I would like nothing more than to make her happy for the rest of her life. But I'm not willing to be unhappy to get there. I admit, I've been considering moving on for the last few weeks based on the lack of progress. Her behavior today is a big vote of yes.

I'm sad and I'm tired. I feel like I am moving to be a better person and she simply stays in the same place and blames me for he unhappiness. It's old. She's an awesome lady...I love her to death and I could not ask for a better mother for my children. She helped me get to where I am so I owe her so much it's difficult to even put into words. But that's not enough for me anymore.

[Spartan]

I'm so worn out with this all. I do love my W with all my heart, and I would like nothing more than to make her happy for the rest of her life. But I'm not willing to be unhappy to get there. I admit, I've been considering moving on for the last few weeks based on the lack of progress. Her behavior today is a big vote of yes.

I'm sad and I'm tired. I feel like I am moving to be a better person and she simply stays in the same place and blames me for he unhappiness. It's old. She's an awesome lady...I love her to death and I could not ask for a better mother for my children. She helped me get to where I am so I owe her so much it's difficult to even put into words. But that's not enough for me anymore.

Dang buddy, I'm sorry to hear about the fight. Give it some time and let your emotions get centered again. I know this crap is hard but do you really want to give up now? You guys have come a LONG way and maybe your W is just pulling back again for whatever reason.

Any idea what she meant by the 15 date comment? That one didn't make much sense to me. Does she think something is going on with all your new GALing? Is her aggressive attitude today normal or do you think something else was on her mind? I know from personal experience something can be on my mind and next thing you know W and I are in full blown argument on completely unrelated topic because I didn't discuss the actual issue.

Our ultimate goal in the end is to be happy. If you truly love your W with all your heart will leaving make you happy?

[mamabird]

Wow. Sorry BD. That is a little bit of a blow. I wonder if she feels a little intimidated now that you have gotten your act together? I know if my H were in your mindset, I might feel a little threatened or something like that. As if he's moving on with or without me.

Can you just tell us, what is your W's reason for wanting a D? It seems like a lot of these WAW's don't have an actual "reason" other than generic unhappiness and there is usually some sort of OM hanging around who she is using for comparison. So even if you work on you and address the issues that she has, you're still not as attractive as OM. I would say most women want security so it would be unusual for a W to just walk out with no OM. I have a friend who did but 1) she had an open marriage for a few years and had OMs here and there and 2) her H turned out to be gay and that wasn't working so well for her! But mostly, it seems like when a wife leaves, it's either due to abuse or because there's someone "better" waiting.

Are W and OM still an item? Do you know?

And regarding you, well, I'd say you put in more than your fair share of work. You gave it your best shot and that is all you can do. I totally get where you are. Not where you want to be but you end up there because hanging on begins to be really detrimental to your own well being.

[labug]

Why did you need to have the discussion? And was the discussion about cleaning?

[Breakdown]

Any idea what she meant by the 15 date comment? That one didn't make much sense to me. Does she think something is going on with all your new GALing?

I'm not 100% sure. I think part of it is the GAL and part of it is probably her fear of what will happen. She knows I won't be alone after D. But I have given her 100% of my effort and attention for a couple of years now. I didn't get that either.

Is her aggressive attitude today normal or do you think something else was on her mind? I know from personal experience something can be on my mind and next thing you know W and I are in full blown argument on completely unrelated topic because I didn't discuss the actual issue.

No, it's not normal. She did yell at D12 the day before while we were stacking wood and I told her to chill out. She was worried about wood falling on D12, so her head was in the right place, but it came out very nasty and it upset D12. She explained that she was worried about her after I prodded her. Really, she could have been upset about something at that point, or she could have been upset I called her out.

When she told everyone to clean, S18 went straight to her and started complaining...that pissed her off. And when I told her that I thought she was driving them all a little hard, she flipped out and told everyone to stop working.

The kids (S18 especially) didn't want to go to our church's youth group Sunday night, and that bothers her. I think she's pushing them too hard and they will end up hating it. Frankly, when she came in and started the argument, that was what she was complaining about. S18 said he doesn't want to go to youth, or even church and it was somehow my fault. She even said that the boys didn't sing at church because I didn't sing. I said, "that was one song I didn't sing, and I didn't know that song." She said she didn't know it either but sang it. Then she made a comment about how she sang even though I didn't think she could hold a tune and I said "When did I say that?" and she said "You told me that when we were teenagers!" Really!?

All that said, I think you are on to something Spartan. She was much more aggressive this weekend than normal, and while I did defuse her a number of times, I didn't find out if there was something unusual bothering her.

Our ultimate goal in the end is to be happy. If you truly love your W with all your heart will leaving make you happy?

Nope, definitely not. I even told my W last night that I love her with all my heart, and I believe she is my soulmate if there is such a thing. But I think I'm at a point where I'm just going to stop fighting it. Honestly, it doesn't really change much other than the sleeping arrangements (and we'll see if that sticks). We're both stuck in this house until it sells and at that point, I figured she'd bail anyway.

I wonder if she feels a little intimidated now that you have gotten your act together? I know if my H were in your mindset, I might feel a little threatened or something like that. As if he's moving on with or without me.

Yeah, all the GAL could be making her feel that way. I know she doesn't like it, but I don't think she feels like she can say anything since she filed for D.

And I do think she hates that I've changed on some level. She doesn't want to stop the D, but she hates that I'll be "great for someone else."

Can you just tell us, what is your W's reason for wanting a D?

Basically she says that she feels wronged and can't get past it...she repeated it again last night and I chimed in and said "that's the choice you are making." She has repeatedly said that she plans to be alone and she knows I won't be alone long.

Are W and OM still an item? Do you know?

I know they are still talking regularly, and it's not all business as my W would like me to believe. But, she no longer is attached to her phone the way she used to be and she is almost always home at a reasonable time these days. Personally, I think it's cooled off more than heated up, and while I know he'd love to have a relationship with W, I don't think W thinks of him the same way. But who knows?

And regarding you, well, I'd say you put in more than your fair share of work. You gave it your best shot and that is all you can do. I totally get where you are. Not where you want to be but you end up there because hanging on begins to be really detrimental to your own well being.

I'm still working on me (and I have a lot of work to do!), and I'm not giving up on the M, but I think I'm at a point where I need to stop fighting the D and start looking forward. Sometimes I think that the only reason she's still fighting for it is that I'm fighting against it. We'll see what happens when I take the resistance away.