Starsky, I did see that. I didn't respond for a couple reasons:
1) I am not that sure there was "infidelity" on his part. He went out with that woman a few times but I can't be sure of the nature of their relationship. Obviously I am not comfortable with it but who am I to talk.
2) I'm not seeing that I'm in any position to make demands on him about mutual transparency. We just aren't in that space yet and I feel like it would be too much, too soon.
I guess there were only 2 reasons ;-)
Me54, H53 M 23, T 25 S20, S18 BD: April 2024 Moved out: August 2024
Love means not giving up on someone even if they've given up on you.
"Being right is the booby prize of life." - Susan Page
FM - thanks. That is why it is nice to have this board, to be able to hear it from the other side. We tend to get so caught up in our own points of view that it becomes difficult to see things in the other person's eyes. Helpful advice.
Me54, H53 M 23, T 25 S20, S18 BD: April 2024 Moved out: August 2024
Love means not giving up on someone even if they've given up on you.
"Being right is the booby prize of life." - Susan Page
My pleasure. I wish my W sought advice like you and tried to see the other point of view. It is tough to do so I congratulate you and respect you for that. I am glad i saw your points of view, but maybe a year too late unfortunately. He will at some point and maybe he already does see your points too. There is middle ground. What truly bothered me most was the fact I worked so hard at understanding how that could happen. It took a lot of pride to swallow and self reflection then W begged back in 2 x and still there was no effort on her part to restore trust and blames me for everything and then walks after she had time to plan. The A aside, the dysfunction that neither of us dealt with was a two way street. They were very common issues too of being busy with work, kids, etc etc that connection was lost. It was typical and fixable. I never did anything betrayal wise. So, the A will be a side issue to deal with but it is a symptom of the other issues. The issues will be easier to handle if the symptoms are relieved or at least in tandem.
M17 yrs. me49 xW47 d15 d11
BD1-Jul/11(Affair found out) Therapy 9 months (tried 2) BD2- May/12(sep) Court Jul/13 - I got 50/50 Sold home - Aug/13 Court #2 - Dec/13 Court#3 - Apr/14 ... She lost again We settled.
It has been a week now since we technically started piecing. H has not put back on his wedding ring and I have not mentioned it. I put mine back on immediately. I am a little frustrated because I see him as doing this not for me, but for the kids and to preserve his lifestyle. I guess that isn't a horrible thing, but it's clear it's not about me, just from his behavior. If there were not kids involved, we would have been over a long time ago I think.
I wouldn't worry about the wedding ring for right now, and you probably do need to lower your expectations. There are a few things on your thread that I see that would lend some credibility to what you are feeling.
Originally Posted By: RegretfulLA
"It would be amazing if I could have a great relationship with the mother of my children."
When I first read this, I noted how it is worded. I didn't say anything because I didn't want to be negative, and I'm not trying to mind read your H. He didn't say anything about his relationship with you as his W.
Another thing that hit home with me was your discussions with him before he left. You were talking to him a lot about how he couldn't afford to move into your rental house. If you didn't emphasize that, do you think he would have left?
When I was in my WAS phase, one of the things that kept me here was finances. I told my IC over and over that if money were different, I would leave. But over time, I grew closer to H and saw the good things about him and wanted to stay.
I think you still need to put your focus on you and your kids, and less on H and your M. Your H is still protecting himself and is waiting to see if you are really committed, or if there is going to be another OM.
M44 H57 D17 (special needs) M 18 yrs Bomb 7/2/12 Still living together
At one point my W basically said she was staying because she thought we needed to get to a point where we could co-parent. Honestly, I didn't care what her reasons were....it just gave me more time to work on me and for her to see that.
With that said, I think you're in a position to have some serious talks. You could do the LL questionnaire together, or something from Gottman's book. You might also considering just having an honest conversation and ask things like "what do you think working on it should look like?" His thoughts may not look like yours.
Go slow though. I know I'd be super excited if my W said that she'd like to try and it'd be easy to overload her very quickly. Honestly, at this point, we've done so much work on us, when our spouse says "go" we are chomping at the bit. Keep this in mind and don't overwhelm him.
I agree with the other wounded spouse posters here, they have nailed it and expressed what I feel regarding my W.
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little frustrated because I see him as doing this not for me, but for the kids and to preserve his lifestyle. I guess that isn't a horrible thing, but it's clear it's not about me, just from his behavior. If there were not kids involved, we would have been over a long time ago I think.
It's an opening, a starting place, and yes, it's not about YOU primarily at this point. FWIW, I believe that my mlc W only stayed at one point because of the kids, and that she didn't want to get a job, etc...so I get where you might be coming from.
That said, most men that I know would stay for the kids, but would not stay to maintain a life style if their was no love/desire/wanting for the W. I would rather live out of my truck and backpacking gear than stay with a woman I didn't love who hurt me so. And I did consider it, but the kids, and the possibility of reconciling, because I do love this woman, kept me form leaving or kicking her out.
Maybe try to redefine things as "we/us", rather than "me/him".
Just my 2.5 cents, your mileage may vary. T^2
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
Starsky, I did see that. I didn't respond for a couple reasons:
1) I am not that sure there was "infidelity" on his part. He went out with that woman a few times but I can't be sure of the nature of their relationship. Obviously I am not comfortable with it but who am I to talk.
2) I'm not seeing that I'm in any position to make demands on him about mutual transparency. We just aren't in that space yet and I feel like it would be too much, too soon.
I guess there were only 2 reasons ;-)
You have both had inappropriate contact with other people outside of the relationship, and you are both struggling with TRUST. The best way to attack that is with mutual transparency.
This is all such strange territory. I am trying so hard to break my old mindset and I can see he is too, but it is HARD. H has a habit of lashing out, getting frustrated/feeling criticized and only seeing the negative things that I do. Just as an example, we were talking about finances tonight. He said, "I have no idea why we are cash poor if we are bringing home X." I said, "I know exactly why. Did you have a chance to look at the budget I did?" He said, "No because i suck at everything." Somehow he was inferring something completely other than my face value comment. This was a good example of how things can go. Even my son, who heard the conversation, said, "She really didn't mean that Dad."
That said, I continue to have my doubts. We do have trust issues, that is for sure. Yes, I suppose his contact with this woman was not exactly appropriate. But it goes beyond that. For me, it's more about him sticking to his word, doing what he says he is going to and not doing what he says he isn't going to do. I do not think he'd go out and "cheat", especially given all that has happened, BUT I don't find him 100% reliable AND I don't trust what he says to other people about our sitch. As I have said, his truth is not my truth, and he gives a very one-sided account. He has not been discreet at all with any of it.
Communication continues to be a huge challenge. I've been very focused on it so I am sensitive to every word, whereas I'm not sure he has done much exploration on this. So we've got our work cut out for us I guess. I see us falling into much of the same old patterns on a day-to-day basis. I have a tendency to get defensive so trying to break the patterns has been tough.
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With that said, I think you're in a position to have some serious talks. You could do the LL questionnaire together, or something from Gottman's book. You might also considering just having an honest conversation and ask things like "what do you think working on it should look like?" His thoughts may not look like yours.
Great idea Breakdown. I'd like to try all of those but I still don't feel 100% comfortable with him. I wish I knew why that was and how to get out of that. I don't think overwhelming him will be a problem since I also seem to be pretty skittish.
TSquared2, well I suppose there must be something in there to make him want to stick around other than just logistics, finances and children, though those are decent reasons to try. I had a dream not long ago where he said, "I still love you" or someone else told me that or something. I hadn't dreamt about him in months prior to this, so I took it to be meaningful.
So just to end on a good note, H left tonight for a 2 week trip to Europe. We drove him to the airport, gave him hugs and he said to me, "I love you." So, that's new, and somewhat encouraging, especially since we had been fighting today.
Me54, H53 M 23, T 25 S20, S18 BD: April 2024 Moved out: August 2024
Love means not giving up on someone even if they've given up on you.
"Being right is the booby prize of life." - Susan Page
The ILY is encouraging. Maybe this time apart will give him some more time to think. I can imagine that you are both in difficult spots in trying to juggle this.
I have some of the same feelings regarding my H. Some days, I honestly don't think he is capable of giving me what I need in a relationship emotionally. It was there to start with, but quickly left after the "new" wore off.
I can remember asking him about flowers, cards, etc. and he said something to the effect that he got me down to GA and didn't have to work as hard any more. I also asked about why he didn't tell me that I looked nice, etc. after he loaded comments on a friend's wife in front of me and he said that I should know he thinks I look good, etc.
I get all of the "one person can change a relationship" stuff, but I also know that we can't change these mindsets of our H's and all of the negativity. Those are things that they have to work on. It goes back to his feelings of not being good enough.
M44 H57 D17 (special needs) M 18 yrs Bomb 7/2/12 Still living together
