TheUF - Changing gears - Dropping the rope?

[25yearsmlc]

UF

You asked me to stop by your thread w/any input. Though I read most of your whole thread, it's probably best I just use this one for now...

I've had a feeling the last couple of days which got even stronger after reading 25's recent reply to Big Bruce. She really is of great value to this board.
Even though directed at BB it gave me some good insight to my own sitch as well.

Thanks^^^.

I stood my ground on my hobbies and said beforehand I wouldn't give them up. She said she understood. Still, that didn't give me a free pass. I should have taken it down a notch, and been more available/present.

I'm a mother of 3, and 1 of 9 kids. So that's MY perspective, plus I'm a L so I also have a career. I can tell you that it was MY career which changed for our children, NOT h's. And yes, I resented that. But that was long ago.

When I see a man telling a woman (especially a woman you never deemed worthy of marrying? What was that all about? I cannot fathom not being ready to marry BUT being ready to have a child...just an aside...)...

anyhow, telling her you were "going to have my hobbies and NOT give them up" or as you said "Stood my ground" ....really? This decision to have a child was a POWER play?

I think when you have a child...(Hey, you wanted my opinion---remember?)

but you assert that despite wanting a child, nothing else is to change FOR YOU...(b/c hobbies are SO important?? No wonder she felt under valued...)

Okay, TO ME, that just sounds silly and, well, sort of selfish.

Of course you should meet the needs of the child you & she brought into the world, and the "marital" relationship FIRST... OR your "marital" relationship will suffer. Plain and simple.

HER world got turned upside down and she gets to see you go off as if nothing else changed for you. Her body got pregnant, HER body changed dramatically and then gave birth and then did all the child care & had all the sleep deprivation, and hormonal swings,

but hey, you "stood your ground" for those hobbies, and you sound, even now, proud of that. Are you?

Having a baby rocks your world. It turned my career plans upside down and I"m OKAY with that!

Things are NOT the same and anyone who insists on having all their social and hobby needs met WHILE parenting, is dropping the ball as a parent and a partner, IMO.


The feeling I have is that I'm struggling. Key word : communication.
My intentions are in the right place, yet I struggle to get in the mindset I need to communicate better. I know I will be ok either way this sitch turns out, but I really want to grow regardless of outcome!

We've had some phone calls, texts and Spent one hour together(w/S2). Face to face things are good, but often when she calls she is angry.
One of her complaints(180) has been that I don't listen enough. On the phone she got really angry and said I didn't listen. I replied to what she said so obviously I was.

Listening to me, = taking the information IN and processing it. That CAN mean you change your mind about something.

It always means you realize it's HER information and HER view...merely repeating it or merely replying, shows you HEARD it, which does not mean you "get it", or as she said, That you "listened".

Make sense? Maybe it's semantics and I'm guessing here, at what SHE means.


Don't get me wrong I have always been a bad listener, which I am working on, but this was more like negative enforcment from her side("see why I left you?!)


what do YOU mean when you say you've "always been a bad listener"? That's not a small trait to work on my friend. Work on it....

you can take communication classes that work on this. Or attend a personal growth workshop called 'Essential Experience" (check their website) which works a ton on HOW to listen better (and a ton of individual issues too. It usually helps R's a lot but keeps the focus only on the person attending, NOT the spouse).

I would not suggest you tell your "woman" what SHE needs to work on.
It's not your job. Just model your changes and let that be something SHE can notice and follow if & when she's willing.

As for the negative enforcment from her side, that makes sense. Don't let it bother you too much. IT can mean she's reasserting herself b/c she wants to remind herself of why she left, which MIGHT mean she is "wondering" how smart it was or if your changes make her arguments a moot point, and that's a good good thing.

AND OR she may be manipulating you w/that comment. But YOU decide if that works. Not her.

So who cares if that's her goal, if YOU don't let it manipulate you?

She talked about quitting jobs and going on social security checks. (She used to hate healthy people doing that.) She changed it to quitting jobs to go to school again. I replied that

and you gave her YOUR opinion on the "value" of her proposal. Don't. Just LISTEN to her and let her work things out so she sees that you are LISTENING and not judging or advising and NOT risking the whole patronizing appearance.


it's far better than giving up and sitting back, and that she would get an opportunity to get proper education. IDK, I just feel I come off as patronizing.

you could ask exploratory questions of her instead. "What would you study? If she doesn't know, ask her what she has eliminated. IF she does know, you can ask "Would that lead you to a job you'd find fulfilling?" ETC but don't mention money b/c she thinks that is your priority.


And I have been in the R as well. Shared little economy, bought an appartment for us w/o her, didn't act on many complaints she had, so forth.

you have been what? "Patronizing" IN the R too? And you "Shared little economy" means what? You say you bought an apartment without her? Do you mean the HOME you were to live in? IF SO, that's huge. She probably felt ignored and devalued then. Plus you stole a wonderful opportunity from her.

You two could have gone house hunting together. IT's a wonderful bonding experience you denied her. Why? IF it's a control thing, admit it. See how you robbed her AND YOU of a wonderful memory.

And whatever was "wrong" with the place probably got held against you since it was forced upon her. Make sense?



I guess I need some tools for this.

That's fine. We ALL need tools for this. Go to EE or some other workshop and or take a class. Get some counselling. Do what you have to do. There are so many resources around for this, it's insane not to get the tools you need for a healthy loving R.

She complained about phone/computer/gaming as well, and I've kept those to an absolute minimum as long as S is around. The problem is however communication/interaction skills.

Those ^^ things tend to show lack of interest in the "family" unit and will make a woman feel lonely, and disrespected.

Do you see why that would be?

I'm in the process of findng a C/therapist. Most have long waiting lists. Any suggestions to male vs female? One issue I believe is my R to my mother over the years.

Some workshops (EE included) help with parental r's that still affect us. IF that applies, look into it.

I GUESS a female T might be better if you have mom issues. Not all MC's are bad despite what many say here. Many are bad b/c they end up rehashing the past so much that the couples get more angry and end up divorcing and that "proves" to the mc, that they were "going to divorce" which just fuels their approach more.

So look for a "solution based" T if you can find one. That means, to me, that within half a dozen sessions, you ought to be behaving in new ways...or you need another T. At least that's my opinion.

Been sick on/off since December so GAL has been limited, but have had several get-togethers with people I don't usually hang out with. 180 for me.
Have plans for GAL as soon as I get well. Soul.Searching got me on the idea of water park/aquarium with S, bit of a travel but absolutely worth it.

The aquarium sounds fun with S, but it's NOT GAL in my book. What are YOU doing to GAL?

For a guy who "stood his ground" for hobbies, why not pursue those when you can, which is when you are NOT with your son?

IF I were you, I'd spend ALL my "son" time with him NOT doing the hobbies.

what are you referring to here? If it's typical "what do I do alone?" GAL then I suggest you volunteer for something, or take a class, or JOIN an organization or group.

I took classes in French, Italian cooking, I joined a writer's group, I auditioned for community theater and did stand up comedy, I learned to ski, hunt and fish.

I took flying lessons, went skydiving, and volunteered at a woman's shelter. I even took a pottery class (huge 180 for me.)

Except for the flying/skydiving, everything else was cheap or free.

You can GAL more and we hammer it here b/c it really does help with detaching and having a good upbeat attitude with your WAS.

I think she's given you several hints about wanting to see if things could be better with you. Remember that

she will only come home to reconcile IF & ONLY IF

she believes, marriage to you can be better/different than before.

Your job is showing her that it could be.

IF you want that, and if it comes up, you might want to start with actually proposing...but that's a long way off for now.

I Just want to suggest it to you b/c a lot of women feel, down deep, that without a ring on their finger -- they are being used.

Since you stated you were "willing" to have a child BUT wanted nothing else to change in your life, I can see how she'd have felt devalued and taken for granted and since you didn't seem to discuss marriage much,

why wouldn't she see the attention of OM as an appealing thing?

Food for thought.