W will do what she wants. Time for ME and D3 !!

[SM34]

Waiting anxiously for your response. I need to switch the power dynamic and put some fear of losing me into her. Right now she believes she has time to think it through, which I guess she does.

But I do have plans to ask her to leave the house when I think she is looking back and has regret and has seen some changes. The realistic timeline for that (from other sitches with OM) seems to be about 6 months.

[AnotherStander]

AnotherStander yes you are absolutely right! GAL can be anything you enjoy doing. I guess I meant more like things to do to meet people. I need to have friends, some to call me.

Yes, but that doesn't happen overnight unless you have some old friends you can reach out to. That's what I did, one was a friend I hadn't hardly spoken to in 25 years!! But like 25 said, you need to get out and do stuff to meet new people. You mentioned doing volunteer work, I spent 2 years doing Habitat for Humanity and formed a lot of strong friendships through just that one activity.

And I just want to emphasize again what 25 said about just getting out and doing something. I tended to overanalyze stuff early on in my sitch and I see you doing something similar. The problem with overanalyzing is we're looking for answers, but there are none that will satisfy us. Things are happening with the WAS on a deep emotional level, in a place were logic and reason doesn't exist. Usually the WAS doesn't even really know themselves what's driving their decisions. Anyway, Michele makes the point in DR that it is critical to GAL to quit talking and thinking and start doing. You've just got to get out and do it. It is VERY difficult at first because we're depressed, anxious and just want to curl up in a ball inside the house. But the more you get out the more fun you have, the less you think about your sitch, and the more you WANT to get out. That's the whole idea of GAL, refocus your thoughts on the good in your life rather than the bad.

I saw you posting a lot of good suggestions to people. Do you know of anyone else in my sitch where these is an OM but W doesn't bring up divorce or moving out anymore?

Yes, is happens quite a bit actually. More often it's a man doing it. It's classic cake-eating, the WAS wants the excitement of a new fling but they don't want to give up their old comfy relationship either, or deal with the headache of moving and splitting finances.

There was no OM in your sitch right?

There was, but to this day I don't know if it was just an EA or a PA. My attitude was to just assume it was a PA, for me that made it easier to deal with then letting it eat at me.

Waiting anxiously for your response. I need to switch the power dynamic and put some fear of losing me into her. Right now she believes she has time to think it through, which I guess she does.

This does need to happen, but I think it may be too soon for that. You're barely 2 months since BD. Plus it's not something that should be forced, rather it needs to be something that naturally progresses. IE, your GAL activities will eventually bring you to a place where you truly do feel that you can continue your life with or without your W. When you get to that level of detachment, nothing your W does or says will impact your PMA. It's then that they start realizing they don't have power over you anymore and they could very well lose you. That might lead to new soul-searching on their part. Just don't try to rush the process, if you try to force it then it'll usually come off to the WAS as pressure and that's not a good thing.

But I do have plans to ask her to leave the house when I think she is looking back and has regret and has seen some changes.

Personally I never would have forced W to leave I don't think. I figured if she was there then she could more easily see my 180's. But when she talked about leaving I didn't try to stop her, I told her that I wanted her to be happy and if she thought that leaving would make her happy then I supported her decision. I didn't force her to do anything, I just validated her emotions and told her I support her. But I let her make the choices. If I had forced her out I think she would have resented it.

[leopoldstotch]

Ok SM the first thing I want to say to you is this. All the success stories you have read were not I repeat were not used as tactics to get spouses to come back. The people in those stories were ready to move on with their lives without their S. You want to follow these as a way to get your W back without doing any work on YOU. Guess what? It doesn't work that way. YOU have to make changes FIRST. Then your W has to want to come back and there is no guarantee that she will want to I think that needs to made clear to you.

Have you thought about living your life without her and what it would be like because I don't believe you have. I absolutely see you as codependent. What do you think will happen if you don't work on you and you somehow managed to get your W back using one of your tactics? I'll tell you, she will be out of your life for good and are you prepared for that? Are you prepared to live your life without her in the event your M is truly over? It's not healthy for YOU or your W to rely on her for all your NEEDS and I see that you do. She shops for your clothes and she was/is your only friend. Do you think she really wants that kind of pressure? You certainly are not independent of her.

I've read your post on saying that you two have shared ALL your feelings. Really? If so you would have truly known that you were in a sex starved marriage. Once a week to you was just fine but to your W that clearly wasn't enough. I highly highly doubt that your marital problems are stemming from just a lack of sex. From the outside there are many reasons why she is doing what she is doing and I think you do know what they are.

SM do you respect yourself? A person with self respect does not tolerate or enable their S to live the way you are living. Seriously, I know your D is young but what kind of message do you think you are sending her? You may think you are not in any position to have a say in your W's A but I strongly disagree. Two wrongs do not make a right. You are both wrong here as I see it.

Many years ago when my W had her A I was just like you I put up with her bull because she knew how bad I wanted her back just like your W knows you want her back at all costs. My W had all the POWER and she knew it and loved it as she later told me. I finally had enough of it SM busted up the affair, told her parents and told her boss and I paid a price with my W for that. We lived in hell for quite some time but I didn't care. Let me tell you that none of that made her come back to me. Do you know what made her realize she didn't want to lose me back then?

It was the fact that after living in limbo for months after her A was over I had an awakening one day. It dawned on me that I could no longer live like this that it was time for me to move on with my life without my W so I moved out of the house. You see SM I was truly done with my M at that point I left I strated dating and it was when my W found out I was dating that her life began to unravel. Why you ask? As she told me she lost all the POWER and never in her wildest dreams thought I would leave and move on and guess who that reminds me of? Your W!

Now I'm not telling you to go out and date because you aren't ready for that but your W has no fear of losing you. All I can tell you is what I would do if I was in your position today. You are the bread winner so to speak so I would cut off all money to her. If you share a joint bank account I would take all the money except for maybe a few bucks and open my own account in my own name only let OM give her money to go see him or she gets a job so she can have money. No way would I be the one out in the working world while she gets to have an A on my dime. Does all this sound harsh or like being an @ss? Yes but guess what it's reality and you don't have to be nasty to her about it. I would go about it non-chalantly.

Ok W since you want to live as room mates then I am going to open my own account and leave you with a couple bucks to get started with. She will be pissed but that's tough. Remember she is the one choosing this lifestyle because YOU yes YOU SM are allowing it. Definitely do not allow her to take the car that is better on gas. Detaching is key here. I could not act like we were best friends while she was doing this. At this point I would treat her like a room mate. I would tell her that it's time you two split the bills in half. Mortgage, utilities, food etc after all you are only room mates and room mates split things 50/50. She will probably hate you for this if you do it but guess what eventually she will come to respect you for standing up for yourself.

I think you really need to take MWD's advice and act like you are moving on with your life in fact what I said above will probably signal your W that you may be beginning to move on. Quit smoking, start exercising go buy a whole new wardrobe. Go out during the week even if it's to the mall or to the library or even a movie just as long as you don't make it look it you are sitting home waiting for her to just run back to you which is exactly what you are hoping for and THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN!

GAL Sm and GAL NOW!

[SM34]

AnotherStander and Leopoldstotch, thank you guys so much for offering your knowledge to me,i certainly do appreciate it.

You both have very valid points although they perhaps contradict each other somewhat. But I have had a lot of contradicting advise on here, so I guess in the end you go with your gut.

I have been thinking about life without my W recently. She left yesterday for two nights (will be back tomorrow) and so I am taking care of D3 on my own.

I got D3 bathed and into bed last night, I got her ready for school this morning, I dropped her off and got my day started for work. So I am starting to feel more calm and more serenity as far as that part goes because I think i can handle it.

By the way, i went back and read both of your initial sitch posts from way back. on AnotherStander's thread, the very first response is from 25yearmlc. That post intrigued me.

I know it doesn't really matter what the diagnosis is for any of our WAS but 25 said that your wife fit more of the mlc than WAS because she was leaving the family not you.

My wife has said from day one that D3 would stay with me in our marital home.

When I mentioned our marital issues to my parents, who I haven't told about OM because if we reconcile they will NEVER respect her again. My parents come from a culture where this should be the end of this marriage. I was raised in a western society and can move past this.

Anyway, i told me mom we are having marriage problems and W wants to get a job and move out. The first thing she asked me was what about D3? I told her that W is saying D3 would stay with me, and that I told W there is no way D3 is moving with her anywhere and she is to stay in the house she was born in.

My mom's reaction was there is no way a woman would leave her kids unless she has lost her mind.

I believe there is what they now call a Quarter life crises that mostly hits women in their early 30s. It is well documented and seems to occur mostly in women who got married at a young age. We got together when W was 17. So perhaps there is something there.

In any case, we need to stop discussing W, and move on to me. so please read the next post.

[SM34]

OK so as far as what I can do at this point.

I think you are all right in that I need to work up the strength to be able to shift the power to my side. If I force it, as AnotherStander said, it will come across as resentful and probably fake. She would probably call my bluff at this point.

My gut tells me she needs to stay in our house, for now. Also GH31 who has been with me from the start of my sitch, also said that I am not ready to move to the next phase and that will come as a naturally progression when you cannot take this anymore. Similar to what AS said.

At home she is with me and can see my 180s. I need to get to where I am ready and ok with moving on without her, and as you all said at that point she will realize that on her own.

So, my plan from now on is to GAL and GAL some more, and ignore what she does. You are all right in that it is so hard to get going with that!

25yearmlc, you said that since I only had one friend I must never have had good self esteem. Without getting into a long convo, basically I cam to USA as an international student attending college. All of my friends, probaly 100 or so people, were international students. Over the years as they graduated they all moved home.

At that point i had met my now W and was 1.5 years into our relationship when i graduated. I got into her circle of friends and also my business and was too busy and frankly didn't care to have many friends anyway.

So all left, Except me and one other guy I know. I may contact him and see if we can meet up. His wife just had a baby though so not sure how flexible he is.

Yesterday when W was leaving for 1.5 hour drive to OM, she said do you have $10 I can take with me in case I need something? I gave her the $5 I had in my pocket =)

I had told her last time that I she can't be using our marital money for those trips and that our money is only for groceries and things D3 needs.

So it seems it got through a little and was not met with too much anger. I told her there is gas in the car, and really I shouldn't be paying for that either. She said OM told her he would give her money when she goes this time.

So I will slowly start to stand up for myself in those situations, while at the same time upping my GAL. That way it is authentic and looks like I am moving on.

When she feels the loss of power, perhaps she will rethink this whole situation.

She is looking for a job, but not in OM's city! She is looking here where we live. So not sure what she is thinking, or if she is thinking at all. We all know WAW's dont seem to have too much clarity.

So GAL GAL GAL. I am going to start working out. that is my number one GAL right now. I want to get rid of a little gut i have going on, and grow my arms out like they were when we met.

I'm going to look into habitat for humanity. I have always wanted to help those less fortunate. Especially during the holidays because all my family live out of state. But we always end up at W family. So now is the time.

I still have faith my wife will change her mind though think it will take time. I need to change as you all said, and I need to become the husband only a fool would leave.

Fix my business and make it more profitable (by focusing instead of obsessing about my sitch which has made business worse).

Work out and start to have more energy, feel better, look better.

Need to sign up for either a volunteer something or perhaps a class in something. i kind of liked the pottery idea that 25 mlc did!! =)

Stay tuned. And please let me know if you think I am on track here!

[SM34]

Side note. The thought of our family breaking up tears me up because of my daughter! Thats why my wife will have a hard time believing I wouldn't take her back.

I come from a culture where marriage is life long, even if you are not happy really. You deal with what you have, and learn to love what have (instead of this culture where you have to HAVE what you love).

Out of my close family, (mom, dad, older brother, sister in law and her entire family) as well as my extended family back home (numbering probably upwards of 300 people) I would be the first person to be divorced. My W knows that and so this is how her POWER becomes hard to overcome.

She knows I think it would be a terrible outcome for my D3.

[leopoldstotch]

My advice...lose the faith that your W will change her mind. If you keep that faith and it doesn't happen then what SM? Prepare to move on without her,for real. I see several possibilities for you. One, you don't follow the advice to work on you and you pressure your W back what do think will happen again? Two you do the work you need to do become a strong independent happy person who has a life. In this scenario three things will happen. Either your W will like who have become and she may come back to you. Two is you have become better but you have truly grown tired of living the way you two are living and you want to move on with your life without her in which case she will either want you back or not. The third would be you become better and realize you are better off without her.

Now which choices sound best to you? I think you know what YOU need to do. Forget about her focus on YOU and your D.

[25yearsmlc]

OK so as far as what I can do at this point.

I think you are all right in that I need to work up the strength to be able to shift the power to my side. If I force it, as AnotherStander said, it will come across as resentful and probably fake. She would probably call my bluff at this point.

My gut tells me she needs to stay in our house, for now. Also GH31 who has been with me from the start of my sitch, also said that I am not ready to move to the next phase and that will come as a naturally progression when you cannot take this anymore. Similar to what AS said.

interesting spin on their words^^. I took them as challenging you to have more self respect in this arena, but I concede you don't sound as if you do at the moment.


At home she is with me and can see my 180s.


which are what?

I need to get to where I am ready and ok with moving on without her, and as you all said at that point she will realize that on her own.

When do you plan on getting there?

So, my plan from now on is to GAL and GAL some more, and ignore what she does. You are all right in that it is so hard to get going with that!


WE said it wasn't easy b/c you are depressed and obsessing. But it's mandatory. We say that b/c we know it is - b/c it works.


25yearmlc, you said that since I only had one friend I must never have had good self esteem.


No I did not say that^. Quote me accurately. I believe I said if you have no other friends but your w, you are codependent. I stand by that.

I also said you do Not sound as if you feel a lot of self confidence these days-which you claim to have on one hand, and that you seem to link it to the success of your business, which you blamed for losing your sex drive.


Without getting into a long convo, basically I cam to USA as an international student attending college. All of my friends, probaly 100 or so people, were international students. Over the years as they graduated they all moved home.

At that point i had met my now W and was 1.5 years into our relationship when i graduated. I got into her circle of friends and also my business and was too busy and frankly didn't care to have many friends anyway.

So all left, Except me and one other guy I know. I may contact him and see if we can meet up. His wife just had a baby though so not sure how flexible he is.

Yesterday when W was leaving for 1.5 hour drive to OM, she said do you have $10 I can take with me in case I need something? I gave her the $5 I had in my pocket =)

why give any? I don't get it. Seriously...you don't have to be angry at her, but to give her money to enable her to buy gas is like giving an addict money for crack cocaine. What's the difference? They're ruining their lives and others...w/money YOU provided. That is called "enabling". Look it up.

I had told her last time that I she can't be using our marital money for those trips and that our money is only for groceries and things D3 needs.

So it seems it got through a little and was not met with too much anger.

So, SHE wasn't angry at YOU b/c you only gave her all the money you had? Oh good...thank God for that! (Yes a note of sarcasm is intended... )

I told her there is gas in the car, and really I shouldn't be paying for that either. She said OM told her he would give her money when she goes this time.

So I will slowly start to stand up for myself in those situations, while at the same time upping my GAL. That way it is authentic and looks like I am moving on.

When she feels the loss of power, perhaps she will rethink this whole situation.

She is looking for a job, but not in OM's city! She is looking here where we live. So not sure what she is thinking, or if she is thinking at all. We all know WAW's dont seem to have too much clarity.

You have heard, I'm sure, that you are to pay attention to NONE of what they say and only half what they do. Start really doing that.

So GAL GAL GAL. I am going to start working out. that is my number one GAL right now. I want to get rid of a little gut i have going on, and grow my arms out like they were when we met.

Good. And meet new people. ASAP...

I'm going to look into habitat for humanity. I have always wanted to help those less fortunate. Especially during the holidays because all my family live out of state. But we always end up at W family. So now is the time.

I still have faith my wife will change her mind though think it will take time. I need to change as you all said, and I need to become the husband only a fool would leave.

Fix my business and make it more profitable (by focusing instead of obsessing about my sitch which has made business worse).

Work out and start to have more energy, feel better, look better.

Need to sign up for either a volunteer something or perhaps a class in something. i kind of liked the pottery idea that 25 mlc did!! =)

Stay tuned. And please let me know if you think I am on track here!

[SM34]

OK Lets clear up something. If my W never comes back, my life will still go on.

I understand that everyone must prepare themselves for the worst situation, and i think naturally you do that during your first few months in the sitch. Generally during the time you feel physically ill.

Once you have grieved, you have hope that resides somewhere in you that is in a different place. I can't describe it but i think you guys know what I mean.

BUT, this is a website and accompanying book, and DB coaches that help you try to get your marriage back! It sure seems like a lot of people forget that on here!

When you hit the DivorceBusting.com website it says in huge letters at the bottom SAVE YOUR MARRIAGE. And I signed up here to try to do that. So please, I am interested in everyone's opinions and guidance, and I understand why you are telling me to be prepared for the worst.

But lets try to stick with motivational talk, and helpful analysis, and handing over experience of what works and what doesn't. We have all read enough threads to know the outcome is not predictable, but we would all like to be one of the success stories. If you don't, you shouldn't be here! You should be on a "Speeding up your divorce" site.

Sorry guys, just wanted to let everyone know my position.

[leopoldstotch]

OK Lets clear up something. If my W never comes back, my life will still go on.[quote=SM34]

This is good to know.

[quote=SM34]Once you have grieved, you have hope that resides somewhere in you that is in a different place. I can't describe it but i think you guys know what I mean.[quote=SM34]

I really don't quite understand what you mean.


[quote=SM34]BUT, this is a website and accompanying book, and DB coaches that help you try to get your marriage back! It sure seems like a lot of people forget that on here![quote=SM34]

I don't think anyone here has forgotten that at all.

[quote=SM34]When you hit the DivorceBusting.com website it says in huge letters at the bottom SAVE YOUR MARRIAGE. And I signed up here to try to do that. So please, I am interested in everyone's opinions and guidance, and I understand why you are telling me to be prepared for the worst.[quote=SM34]

I also think MWD herself states that not all marriages can be saved!

[quote=SM34]But lets try to stick with motivational talk, and helpful analysis, and handing over experience of what works and what doesn't. We have all read enough threads to know the outcome is not predictable, but we would all like to be one of the success stories. If you don't, you shouldn't be here! You should be on a "Speeding up your divorce" site.[quote=SM34]

Ok SM what you get here in these forums is brutal honesty. This isn't a rah rah site. People are giving you their experience and what works for one marriage reconciliation doesn't always work for someone else. Everyone here is hammering you because it seems to most of us that you want an easy way to fix things. Well there is no easy way there may be no way this is why you are told over and over and over again to work on yourself. I get that you want to save your marriage but do you have any idea the level of work that lies ahead of you and your W assuming she wants to be married?

Here comes more honesty. Should you R with your W it is not going to be all sunshine and rainbows and I speak from being there. You will have to learn to trust your W all over again and it will not be easy at all. Every time she goes out you will always wonder where she really is going. Every time she takes a phone call you will wonder who she is talking too. Every time a text comes in you will wonder who is texting. your W will need to be transparent with you and that could be hard for her. My W didn't have an issue being transparent at all. When she comes home late you are going to wonder where she really was who she was really with. Your W will have to learn to trust you too. Trust that your changes are REAL!

I know this from experience I have lived it so I know that an A can be overcome but I don't know if you realize the severity of what is doing right now because you are so focused on getting her back. You don't see the entire picture just yet because you are still shocked and don't say that you aren't because you still gave her money to go see OM. STOP enabling her. You say one thing then do the exact opposite. Why? Do you think it's going to make her want you? The bottom line is SM you need to respect yourself before you can begin to try and save your M. Sorry if I'm harsh but I'm doint it for YOUR own good!