Total despair 2

[swoop]

The anger for my wife is growing. I really want to lash out today and here is why:

Our D has been showing signs of stress from the separation. There has been some acting out, pottie accidents, crying and not knowing the reason, that sort of thing. Last night she asked me who she should love more, mommy or daddy. I expressed that both mommy and daddy love her very much and she can love us too. She doesnt have to choose and she doesn't have to love anyone more or less. About 2 minutes later she is crying, saying she doesn't know why. It broke my heart. This morning, she wakes up crying again so I decide that I am going to get my wife involved in this and call her. So far she hasn't been too concerned that this will really effect D. So, and this is the part that makes me really mad, she talks to daughter and calms her down. She validates her feelings and expresses her love. That part is fine. However, she goes on to tell D that daddy can get her dressed and bring her to mommies apartment so she could cuddle her for a little while. Now, to me that means she was still in bed. It was already 10am, but I am sure she is resting after her hard weekend of partying. But, she expects me to get daughter dressed and bring her there to snuggle her mommy in bed? Like a short snuggle in mommies new apartment will make everything better? I found it extremely selfish that she didn't offer to get her lazy butt out of bed and be invloved directly in her daughters well being. Shortly after the phone call, D no longer wanted to go to mommies. I text W that and her reply was that I could bring her there anytime. Perhaps I am not being fair, but the selfishness is beginning to wear really thin with me. I expressed to W that I was really considering speaking with the school counselor about daughters possible needs. W didn't even reply one way or the other. She literally doesn't think this will effect D much in the long run. I am just not sure how to handle this. I mean, D isn't completely out of control, but she is definitely showing signs of stress. Is that just going to be part of it no matter how it is handled? It is breaking my heart to think D will be emotionally damaged from this Bu11 Sh1t!!!

[SM34]

I know how you feel brother. My W thinks D3 will be fine too because she doesn't understand yet.

I have already noticed extreme separation anxiety. As soon as W is leaving instinctively D3 knows it will be a day or two before she sees her again.

My W was from a broken home also whereas I am not. My parents are still together 42 years now. But my W was 13 and it affected her. So her reasoning is it's better now when D3 is a baby then trying our marriage a few more years then divorcing when she is older.

It is a cycle man. My W always said she would never leave her husband for an affair partner like her mom did. And always had a little lost respect for her mother for it. The only lesson kids get from a divorce is that it's ok to quit even when people tell you things can be done.

Now we have to teach our daughters that quitting on your marriage without trying everything..and I mean everything possible like MC, weekend retreats, ethel whole nine. And you have to teach D3 that without suggesting that's what her mommy did or you damage their relationship forever.

I support divorce for wife beaters, abusers, drug addict spouses, etc.. But a marriage that is fairly normal but needs some tools.to help communication is not on my list of marriages to throw away.

Funny what you learn in these sitches.isn't it? Women break up more homes than men. I always thought it would be the other way around.

Hold on brother. There is still hope.

[littleGTO]

Hi, suckerpunch,
It only makes it okay that your W left if D is okay, therefore she MUST be okay in your W's mind. That is the thinking of WAS's.

My H thinks my boys are fine too, even when I tell him they are NOT & give me very specific examples. Even when he SEES their behaviors with his own eyes, he's denies the obvious reasons.

Don't wait for W to agree on this--get the school C involved. My younger two boys see the school C's. My oldest son doesn't see anyone yet, but I have a family C apptmt next week.

Also, if you my C recommended a book which I just finished-- What About the Kids? by Judith Wallerstein. It talks about what kind of reactions are common for children at various ages & things you can do to help. An excellent resource.

The truth of the matter is that ALL children are affected by D. The difficulty is knowing how it will specifically affect your child. From your posts there are obvious immediate adverse reactions from your D.

I would also suggest a conversation w your W as to how you will handle D's times of distress in the future (like NOT inviting D to come have a snuggle at your inconvenience). Instead suggest she is welcome to come to see D (if that is your preference).

Lastly, you have to be the rock for your D. Your W cannot be this where she is at right now. Your D will come to recognize that you will always be there for her to depend on and some of her anxieties will lessen.

My heart goes out to you, as I understand completely what you are dealing with!

[labug]

So here's my view from much further out on the timeline.

Our spouses didn't wake up one morning and decide to leave the marriage. They'd been thinking about it for a while, and probably having conversations in their heads or with friends about all the stuff we did wrong that caused them pain and anger. I'm sure most of them felt they were working on the marriage, we just didn't get it.

I'm not saying all this is correct but it's usually the WA mindset. And their POV is valid.

It would have been nice had they shared all this with us. Maybe they did and we didn't listen or they didn't say it so we could hear it.

But it really doesn't matter, because here we are, both parties being in most cases equally responsible for the damage to the marriage. I'm sure at times your W thinks- had he only done x,y or z 2 years ago, we wouldn't be here, my daughter wouldn't be hurting.

The difference is we here say they want to work on the marriage, change the poor R skills, become the partner only a fool would leave.

And that's all we can do anyway, work on us.

If you feel you need to talk to the school counselor, then do that. If you want to get your W involved, schedule a time with her and tell her, from your heart, what you see happening. Don't automatically turn it into "This is happening because you left." Kids need parents who are respectful of each other and who can pull together for the sake of the kids even more than they need 2 parents in one home.

Sometimes it takes one parent to model that behavior and lead the way. Can you do that?

Your W will also need to feel safe that you aren't going to continue to blame this on her.

I'm not saying bury your anger but figure out what it is you're actually feeling. There's an emotion that stirs the anger.

And think back, when was the last time you saw anger solve anything?

Good luck, I know this is difficult.

[labug]

The difference is we those of us here say they we want to work on the marriage,

[Spartan]

Suckerpunch - I know exactly what you're going through, I'm going through the exact same thing with my W. To my surprise it's my S4 that's been affected more than my D7 (so far). I've decided to basically just deal with it myself and not talk about it with W because right now she isn't able to deal with it and it gets ugly. Just make sure you stay strong and be very neutral; talk your W up no matter how you really feel at the moment.

Bugs advice is right on. One thing I've seen on a few different threads this AM is making our spouses feel safe with regard to not feeling blamed and being able to talk with us. Something I'm going to give more thought into because early on I did blame her for breaking up family so I need to figure out a way to make her feel safe again.

[AnotherStander]

My wife apparently said, "Nope. I am moving forward and not looking back. If he would have made these changes 5 years ago maybe, but it is too late now. My heart is completely closed off to him".

My W said something very similar to this to my sister. And now she's talking about working on the M. The DB tip really is true, don't believe anything they say and only half of what they do.

And regarding your anger, the way I kept this in check was to remember that my W was not living in a field of daisies under a purple sky with unicorns flying overhead through big rainbows. I figured she was in turmoil and pain because that's what Michele says in DR. And guess what, over the weekend my W admitted that the whole time we've been separated she has cried constantly. Your spouse is hurting. She will say things that may not reflect what she's really thinking because she's trying them on for size. She's saying them to a friend while in her mind is thinking "is this what I really believe? Is this what I want?"

Tonight she is out on a 2 day "birthday party weekend", staying in a hotel, clubbing, fancy dinner. I on the other hand had to check my bank account before buying groceries. The fact that she shoehorned some of our money away before leaving has me furious.

But how long can she maintain that lifestyle before reality clubs her over the head like a baby seal? Just focus on you. GAL. Detach!

[AnotherStander]

This morning, she wakes up crying again so I decide that I am going to get my wife involved in this and call her. So far she hasn't been too concerned that this will really effect D.

Let me ask you, and you don't need to answer here, just really think about it. Did you call W because you wanted her to help your D, or did you call because you wanted her to know D is miserable? I suspect you were trying to rub W's nose in it. Maybe I'm wrong, but think about it, because if there's even a small chance that that's what you're doing then remember kids should never be used against the WAS. Regardless of what happens to your M your goal should be that the children maintain a loving R with both parents.

Now, to me that means she was still in bed. It was already 10am, but I am sure she is resting after her hard weekend of partying.

When you're detached, this sort of thing will roll off of you like water off a duck's back. You've got to get to the point where nothing your W says or does affects your PMA. I texted my W one Sunday at 12:30 about bringing the kids over and she replied back that she had just gotten up, I just laughed to myself about it. I had been up since 7:30. Bottom line, you're now living two separate lives. You have to let go and let her live her life as she chooses!

But, she expects me to get daughter dressed and bring her there to snuggle her mommy in bed? Like a short snuggle in mommies new apartment will make everything better?

But maybe it will! If you really thought that calling your W would help your D, would not taking her over there help that much more?

Perhaps I am not being fair, but the selfishness is beginning to wear really thin with me.

Honestly it doesn't sound like she was being selfish. Selfish would be more like if you called her to talk to D she said "I really don't feel like it now, I just woke up" and hung up.

I expressed to W that I was really considering speaking with the school counselor about daughters possible needs. W didn't even reply one way or the other.

I think you did the right thing in mentioning it to W, but it doesn't sound like you presented it to her in a way that demanded a reply, so if I were you I would go ahead and pursue that. My W and I talked about that as well and W spoke with the SC to let her know what was going on and the SC monitored S10 for us for a while and let us know how he was doing. I think it's a great idea.

[swoop]

Always nothing but good points of view around here! I really appreciate everyones input. I think I am going to follow through and speak with the school counselor. My only apprehension is putting my child in a counseling situation if it not something she really needs. I just have some mixed feelings.

Let me ask you, and you don't need to answer here, just really think about it. Did you call W because you wanted her to help your D, or did you call because you wanted her to know D is miserable? I suspect you were trying to rub W's nose in it.

I ABSOLUTELY wanted my W to know how miserable she was. The fact that she refuses to acknowledge that this separation will effect our daughter absolutely infuriates me. However, I also knew it would be good for our daughter to be supported by her mother, as well as me, during this time. I felt like it was serving double duty.

I am still working hard on detaching. I find it much easier when I have less contact, of course. However, it seems that my phone coach wants me to work on the friendship anlge, so being physically detached is somewhat contrary to that. I am really confused on how to interact and how often to interact with W. So far, I have reached out to her 4 times over the course of about a month and a half to do activities with D and I. She has been receptive 3 out of 4 times, and we have had pleasant interaction. I have told myself that I will not initiate any more activities. She needs to reach out next, I am just not sure she will do so....therefore I feel like I am chasing my own tail on exactly what to do in my situation.

[swoop]

the way I kept this in check was to remember that my W was not living in a field of daisies under a purple sky with unicorns flying overhead through big rainbows. I figured she was in turmoil and pain because that's what Michele says in DR. And guess what, over the weekend my W admitted that the whole time we've been separated she has cried constantly. Your spouse is hurting. She will say things that may not reflect what she's really thinking because she's trying them on for size. She's saying them to a friend while in her mind is thinking "is this what I really believe? Is this what I want?"

Hearing that helps a lot! I know my W has to be hurting too. She's got to be. I am positive she is struggling with at least some of the consequences regarding her decision to leave. Although, she doesn't show it on the outside. Whenever she comes around, she is put together, upbeat and appears very happy with her choices. I guess the WAW has to "act as if" just as much as the LBS does....hmmm. Good to know. Now, if I could only GAL as much as my wife has been doing, I would be in great shape!