Thought I'd drop back in becaue things seemed pretty quiet here.
I/O: There is an underlying story here. Many men, particularly in this type of sexual mismatch fear at least one thing. They have a sense that no matter what they do or threaten, they cannot change the woman they love. In fact the fear is, in retaliation, that what they'll get back is even worse. They don't just acquiesce, they give up, knowing that staying quiet will preserve some level of peace. Trying to deal with the situation just makes things worse, particularly since "change" is something to be resisted because the way you are is (or were was) more important than hearing, ackowledging and addressing the issue. Best to live in "quiet desperation" than to deal with a wife that can make life incredibly miserable (note: years later that misery may have become preferable to the current living situation).
While men may come to the marriage with some outside experience that reinforces that POV of quiet desperation, it is more likely that it comes from within the relationship. You pretty much confirmed that with your bonfire comment. You don't think he knows that about you? You don't think that you trained him with whatever implicit or explicit threat you put into the relationship?
We know that you can make it so bad for us that staying quiet or walking away may be our BATNA. Others sometimes go the violence route, which is definitely a losing proposition all the way around.
So, why would something that looks like change (after he left) be believable to him? The ball is not in his court. Oh, you think it is. That is the POV that you have expressed here (and we can be reasonably sure that you have conveyed a similar message to him). He, having a history with you, knows differently and this probably looks like a variation of the same old thing. Besides, he has a situation which addresses (even if imperfectly for the moment) that which you could/would not.
Oh, he has his own baggage to deal with, to be sure, and that may or may not trip him up.
The Captain
Last sex: 04/06/1997 Last attempt: 11/11/1997 W Issues "No Means No" Declaration: 11/11/1997 W chooses to terminate sex 05/1998 I gained 60, then lost 85 pounds. Start running again (marathons)
Absolutely true. But I am getting to the point where I do not need him to believe me anymore, because I believe me, if that makes sense?
I know he has baggage, so do I. That is why even if he came to me and said, " Wow, I made a huge mistake" I would be hesitant to have an R again, at this point. H has expressly stated he wold not do marriage again, but then x number of years, being raised by others expectations in formative years and then in relationship with me is a lot to overcome. Who knows what conditioning has wrought lol.
We can make it bad for you, and then you feel like the [censored] when you do leave and I can imagine it is not easy. I would love to make it my mission to go around and shake the crap out of the spouses who are like me and say"are you crazy.?"
BTW, not a violent person, just passionate lmao. Tend to feel everything at full power. Which is bizarre given ML history with H !
IO, how do you think your relationship would have turned out if your H had become LD himself and was fine with no sex and only wanted to give you a friendly hug once in a while? Would you have felt insulted or unattractive?
As crazy as it sounds, it sometimes seems like LD women still want the affirmation of being desired, but without having to go through the sex act. That is, I think there are LD women who don't want to have sex with their husbands, but they still wouldn't want to hear their husbands say, "Good news! You don't have to worry about having sex with my anymore because I'm no longer attracted to you!"
If they tell you they don't want to give you any physical affirmations, and you know you treat them great you have to listen to them.
I wouldn't give it more than one year. We all know in the bottom of our heart that anything longer than this is the other person saying they don't care, and your relationship partner not caring is not an option for your life.
You are so right, ssmguy. I, at least, wanted the affirmation. Can't say that other women feel the same though.
And towards the end of marriage, H was not LD but was down to not touching etc. because he had mentally left years before. So yes, I felt unattractive and undesired, but in fairness, through our talks, so did he.
And yes, if my H said "good news", I would not have been happy at all, I think.
Can't really tell you what goes on in my mind at least, but I do know that emotionally, my needs were not being met and that is so tied to sex, for me.
It's both ways; unemotional, unattached sex is fine, once emotions come into play, they have bearing on sex. I think not so much for most men, in terms of emotion. I wonder how many women are really LD as opposed to not having something (something we are not consciously, even, aware of, some need, not met?) I wonder how to figure it out.
A week or so ago, I said something about coffee and H replied exactly what coffee I like at which shop and how I like it. I said, you remembered...he reeled off a veritable shopping list of things I liked and didn't, some very minor, that no one would think of unless they watched and they loved. I was stunned. He never once mentioned that he knew or cared. I told him that if he had mentioned things, or done them, that he would have been getting himself some on a regualr basis, because it made me absolutely melt.
I was stunned. He never once mentioned that he knew or cared. I told him that if he had mentioned things, or done them, that he would have been getting himself some on a regualr basis, because it made me absolutely melt.
There are two problems with this. First, if he really knew this stuff and delivered, then it went completely unnoticed because you didn't "deliver" on a regular basis. The other is that apparently what it would have taken is "See what I do for you? See what I noticed?" This might be cute behavior in a pet, but is it what you really wanted in your H?
The Captain
Last sex: 04/06/1997 Last attempt: 11/11/1997 W Issues "No Means No" Declaration: 11/11/1997 W chooses to terminate sex 05/1998 I gained 60, then lost 85 pounds. Start running again (marathons)
No, he always played the stupid husband role....forgetting this or asking what kind of coffee etc. Surely it is a role I helped put him in, but yeah, once in a while, look what I did for you is the 2x4 in the marriage, when it gets complacent and expectations are driven by past behaviour. All the time would be complacent as well, but to have H bring a little known flower home that I love, because he knows I hate roses and tell me he had to go to five florists....that would work!!
IO, would it melt you enough to have enthusiastic sex with your husband if he took you on a romantic getaway vacation to Tahiti, with a little side trip over to Bora Bora, walked on the beach with you holding hands, took you to candlelight dinners, sightseeing, and had fun with you?
Just curious, because my wife and I did something very similar to this and we both had a lot of fun. The only disappointment for me was that it did not make her one bit interested in having sex. I mean zero, nada, nothing in that department. Oh, yeah, she even liked kissing. But no sex.
Hmmm, hindsight is 20/20. It would have depended where we were in the marriage, I think. For the past five years, even H said the sex was terrible. There was no effort etc., on either part. I think if I saw the trip as a bribe (ie, let's have sex in this here exotic locale) then I do not know if there would have been enthusiastic sex. If we were at the bad place we had been in for the previous five years, then no. We went on a cruise and didn't have sex at all. So I can probably say that the very cool trip would not have done it either. The connection was not there. I think if the trip had happened after H started filling LL needs and stated in no uncertain terms that sex was off table until I wanted to initiate, BOra Bora would have been mighty interesting. But to go on the trip with everything else unresolved? No go.
Sounds selfish and awful and wow, I really don't like the person I was...but let me tell you, this mistake? Of tying sexuality to emotional neediness? Of not expressing what I am missing and what I need? To use sex as a means of control? This never happens again.
Hmmm, hindsight is 20/20. It would have depended where we were in the marriage, I think. For the past five years, even H said the sex was terrible. There was no effort etc., on either part. I think if I saw the trip as a bribe (ie, let's have sex in this here exotic locale) then I do not know if there would have been enthusiastic sex. If we were at the bad place we had been in for the previous five years, then no. We went on a cruise and didn't have sex at all. So I can probably say that the very cool trip would not have done it either. The connection was not there. I think if the trip had happened after H started filling LL needs and stated in no uncertain terms that sex was off table until I wanted to initiate, BOra Bora would have been mighty interesting. But to go on the trip with everything else unresolved? No go.
Sounds selfish and awful and wow, I really don't like the person I was...but let me tell you, this mistake? Of tying sexuality to emotional neediness? Of not expressing what I am missing and what I need? To use sex as a means of control? This never happens again.
I was wondering if you realize how you got this way and if there was anything the husband could have done to get you out of it at the time.
I get the whole idea of the husband doing kind acts and gifts for you was taken by your mind as being "bribed" for your sex and affections.
How did it get so bad where you think the H did not deserve to have it?
The position you describe is one that many couples get into, even ones which have not gone into full out affairs, and I was wondering if there was a method to getting out it that you would be aware of.
