Is it humanly possible to drop the rope?

[AntoniaB]

Having read AJ's, Beatrice's, and Lois's posts, I have a new angle I want to throw out there if I can even articulate it. It's so hard sometimes to say what I feel!

Number one is that no one but the people on this board seem to "get" or "understand" the enormity of this kind of situation, at least in my case. I know some of you have friends or family who have had terrible traumas or terminal illnesses to deal with. I've never met anyone in person who has faced anything like that. Perhaps that has to do with the fact that most people I meet are 18-21. But still, even my entire family and extended family...no similar experience.

Number two. Lots of people break up and lots of marriages end, but not for THIS reason. The LBS's on this board represent a MINISCULE number of people in the world.

Number three. Because of those reasons, my brain and heart are STILL fighting to accept it's real. I'm STILL in a "say it isn't so" mode. Why? Because this kind of thing just doesn't happen to other people in my life. Ever. Just me. There is a level of unreality to all of it.

I think we all hear of or know people who lose spouses to an untimely illness or freak accident. And we watch them move through it and find closure on some level. But probably very few of us can name anyone who has lost a spouse to this bizarre form of insanity which isn't even recognized as a form of insanity by people outside "us." How can we find closure when we have so few models of people who do? Our models exist on this board.

THANK GOODNESS for this board, but still, like I said, I think my mind is still fighting against the facts. Sort of "this can't happen to me, why do I deserve this, etc." The part of me that clings to those thoughts is the part that is insistent that he get himself better and come out of this.

I mean think about it. Lots of people in the world have lots of traumas to deal with. Some people lose a spouse through car accidents. My close friend lost her spouse when he had a massive heart attack and there was no warning. They have to learn to have "a life before" and "a life after." But they seem to be put into their situations by freak chance. In our situations there is a living, breathing person choosing to destroy themselves as they and we knew them and our entire lives and futures with them. Some who come out of it will claim they didn't feel in control of themselves, but come on. After several years of this, they ARE in control of their choices. And they are choosing horribly, and we are the recipients of their madness (and their children too).

I guess what I'm getting at is that I do feel often that what we have to face may be one of the worst traumas a person can face.

I have run through other "traumatizing" scenarios in my head, things that could happen to me, and seriously, I don't feel anything is as bad as this. To be forced to come up with a whole new life because of one person's insanity is just....insanity.

I see the wisdom in certain fears or problems I conquered. But frankly I loved my life "before." It hurts me to walk away from it. And I do feel like I'm being forced to.

[AntoniaB]

To put it another way, in the "before", I just lived. I didn't really think about things so much. I worked, I had vacation, I did fun things, I did annoying things. Now I live, but I live with this whole sense of "can I do this without him", "can I enjoy this without him", "what's the next hurdle I have to face alone because I can't find a replacement for him or my marriage?" And on top of that the very oppressive feeling that I will be facing everything alone for the rest of my life because I have zero belief that I will ever be able to love anyone so completely ever again.

What I mean is my life didn't feel like an exam or test "before." Now it feels like a test every single day. And yeah, pretty much every day I "pass." But I'm sick to death of the pressure. And maybe I hold the rope to him because I think that if he would JUST come out of this, and if we could JUST reconcile, the pressure on me would end.

[Delboy]

Hi Antonia, I hear what you are saying and I also struggled to let go. As time passes it all gets easier! And to me it looks as though you’ve done a lot of work on yourself, good for you girl!
I did really struggle, but I finally got used to going to places and events without her. The worst events are my family weddings and stag do’s. (And I think to myself how long will their marriages last?) And of course thinking about my own former marriage.

So far to date my ex W has never joined us in our kids events like graduation and birthday parties etc

I never went to her Dad’s funeral, perhaps because the family turned me away from his doorstep 4 weeks before he died (cancer).

Now the bit on where I stand. Regarding a possible reconciliation with Liz, but it’s highly unlikely to ever happen.

I do remember my God telling me to let her go!

The reasons and things against it ever happening are:

Even is she was at her very best, that would not be a good enough place to start out at.

She as got so much work to do on herself, and there’s an awful lot of sh1t to sort out!

I don’t find her attractive anymore either sexually/physically or her personality. (She looks awful).

She is to immature, naive etc.

And not to mention the trust issues!!!!!



Your quote: ‘beliefs" in my head. One was monogamy for life’

My reply: There’s a saying over here called ‘Thought’

‘Did you here about thought? – Well he thought he farted but he sh1t himself.’


Love

Delboy

Your quote: ‘But like I said, if someone fell into my lap, I'd consider it.’

My reply: P.S what’s your number!!!!!

[AntoniaB]

Thanks Delboy, you make a lot of good points and you also made me laugh!

I had a conversation about all this with my good friend last night. She's my only "source" as far as someone who is still connected to him on FB. She doesn't interact with him but she sees at least that window into his life. I said "should I drop the rope, be totally honest." She couldn't bring herself to say yes. She said she doesn't recognize any goodness in him, or even recognize him, for that matter, in his posts, that he is obnoxious and arrogant and cynical and seems to have become an entirely different person down to his hobbies and everything. So typical MLC stuff. That after 2 1/2 years, he's still using FB as a platform to try to convince everyone how great the OW is, who never acknowledges him on FB though he tags her and crows about her incessantly. Everythign she does, he promotes it like he's her PR person.

And yet despite all that my friend's advice was "well you never know what will happen with him in the future but just try to focus on your life now without him." And that's kind of part of it, too, that everyone close to me is incapable of telling me to drop the rope. They ALL hold out some secret or not-so-secret hope that things change. I think part of this is that to friends and family he and I had a marriage far better than theirs, and THEY believe in that fairy tale too!

I think what I'm hearing from a lot of you is that you'll just "know" when it's time to fully let go, and if I'm asking the questions yet, it ain't time ;-) But I do think renewed vigor on my part of moving forward without him is important so I don't go back into depression. I'm not in a depressive state, more like introspective, but it does loom off in the corner sometimes.

[mirage]

AntoniaB,

You said "Some who come out of it will claim they didnt feel in control of themselves, come on."

Yep is all I can say. I feel I'm the most balanced person in life now but for 2 - 2 1/2 totally lost mentally in the MLC. Functioning daily was a struggle. I'm just telling you this from someone that came through it and actually recognized the whole journey from normal to crazy and then finally back to normal. As I have said previously, not many make it back in tact.

Your post hit home because much of what you talk about I have experienced as well. The "say it aint so" "is this real stuff". I get it. I feel for you and I feel this is normal functioning. If you can get to the point that these are moments your going to have and just let them enter and then pass through without any putting any power in them then your doing fine. In fact I love reading your posts. they are genuine. You know exactly where you are in your journey. You don't BS yourself. Life is being in the present. I think you live it well.

I have met 3 people in the last month. Two men and one woman. In the two mens case, one was a schoolmate. His wife left him and his their 3 kids. He said he never stopped loving her. He would talk to her occassionally about the kids. She texted him 5 years later and they are currently back together. the other guy, I met along with his wife. She left him and there daughter and disappeared for 3 1/2 years. I asked her why? She said she went nuts, off the train. Could not explain it at all and I ask her some in depth questions. They are back together.

The other situatuion, The guy left and moved in with the secretary(the cliche MLC story). They are now back together as well.

Trauma or not, MLC or not, we are on a journey thorugh this thing we call life. There is a quote I love from the buddhist side of things.
"Life is not suffering, but you will suffer it"

Antonia, I just want you to know you are not alone in much of what you write. Getting to know yourself is probably the most difficult task we have. Society, wants, people, your mind get in the way. Throw on top of it an MLC from the truly one person we thought would support our journey and there you have it.

Become your own best friend in this life. Who else is present in your life all day every day.

Mirage

[AntoniaB]

Mirage that post was awesome, thank you! It's very enlightening to hear about these things from different angles. I think the part you said about letting the moments pass through and not giving them power is really key. I notice that because of my work schedule, I never seem to allow these things to have power during a semester. I'm just too distracted and busy. But then I'm off work for a month for break, and even though I've got things to do, my brain isn't as distracted and I tend to get bogged down in letting things have power. I fixate. What really got this going for me lately was that I got really sick the first week of the year--the same thing everyone has, the virus that won't die, and I've been mostly cooped up in my house for 2 weeks now, and I couldn't go back to work on time. I'm still not better but I really can't take any more time out of the semester, so I'll be teaching again next week, and I think I'll have an easier time not letting this stuff get so much power.

And I love the Buddhist quote. I find I can relate more to Buddhist principles than any other and have read a ton of Buddhist books over the past few years to help learn new ways to think. Thanks!

[Raine]

Antonia your posts have struck a profound cord in me. And even though I'm way behind you in this journey, so much of what you say is what I feel now and realize that like you these are not feelings that will end anytime soon.

I completely relate to the comparison to death of a spouse. Those i know who have been D know some of what I'm feeling, but not all. Rarely does a person go from having a spouse who loves you to a spouse who is gone in seconds, unless by accident. There is no warning or build up of fights or attempts to make things work. Six months later I'm still trying to wrap my head around what possible signs there were to equate this. There never will be any.

Lots of people in the world have lots of traumas to deal with. Some people lose a spouse through car accidents. They have to learn to have "a life before" and "a life after." But they seem to be put into their situations by freak chance. In my situation there is a living, breathing person, choosing to destroy himself as he and I knew him, taking our entire life and future with him.

I was hit with the stages of grief at BD, because it's like he is dead. The guy I knew is dead, but has this twin that is a mirror image of him, the opposite in every way but appearance who keeps showing up. There is no closure.

I was reading about things that happen to us that we find as a surprise because we don't have all the information. The author used the example of a pig that is about to be slaughtered but doesn't know it....but the farmer knows it. Its only a suprise to the pig. The first 300 days of its life are routine and it wakes up on day 301 expecting it to be like every other day. Day 301 is a huge surprise to the animal but not the farmer. The day H told me he wasnt happy and wanted out was not a surprise to him, only to me. Now I am left reeling and trying to make sense of what he's done. I don't have all the answers because I don't have all the pieces. Maybe 2 years from now I'll be able to answer these questions a lot better.

[AntoniaB]

"The guy I knew is dead, but has this twin that is a mirror image of him, the opposite in every way but appearance who keeps showing up. There is no closure."

Oh wow, is that ever a striking way to put it, Hopper! And I'm glad my posts have helped you or articulated something you're feeling.

Gosh I feel like that would make a really great story, a mirror image twin. (wheels turning in my head, ha ha...)

Anyway I don't remember if I brought this example up on the board before, but it concerns the only person I know who can SORT of understand where I'm coming from, who is my long-term colleague and friend, my mentor at my job. She lost her husband to a massive heart attack suddenly--I mentioned her above. She was so blindsided. He'd had one apt. with a doctor for slightly high blood pressure, but this was just out of nowhere. He got up to make coffee one morning and she called down to him, didn't hear him, went downstairs and he had died. He was sitting a chair, peacefully.

Three years later, she met a man and he pursued her and she rejected him over and over. Eventually, though, they got together, and they married.

Two things: she has looked me in the eye and said "if John had lived, I'd have been with him the rest of my life. He is the man I was supposed to be with for life and I know it. My new husband is wonderful, but he will never be John."

She's also said that while she went through something awful and her life is broken down into "before" John died vs. "after", that she still (and I'm paraphrasing her) "can't imagine what it is like to have had to face what I've had to face because at least she knows there is no blame to be placed for her husband's death; it was just chance, and she has closure on it, but to know that my XH suddenly transformed into this other person and still walks the earth, that has to be brutal beyond imagining."

I think sometimes I fear that I will end up like her, that I'll never be able to see anyone else as equal to or better than my XH in terms of a relationship. I think this is why I am not dating anyone. I don't think it would be fair to make someone compete with a ghost, so to speak.

There was an innocence to the love I felt for him. I never knew a person could betray another in such a way when I met him and spent all those years with him that were good. Now that I know what can happen, I can't unlearn what I know. My life experience has taught me that ANYTHING can happen, and I don't know if I'm capable of believing in "true love" ever again.

It's almost like my belief in true love exists in the time frame of 1987-2009, and I think that's why I keep trying to write a novel of that time frame in my life--to record it for posterity as "real" because it doesn't exist anymore. It's kind of bittersweet.

I hope this all isn't depressing anyone ;-) Just trying to come to terms with some things I guess.

[AntoniaB]

OOh I want to add something: a lot of us are talking about closure. Humans seek closure and we hate lack of closure. I just read this book called Another Insane Devotion by Peter Trachtenberg. It's a memoir about his marriage and his cats (so if you're not a cat person you might not be into it!) But the book was given some mixed reviews because it really lacks closure in a lot of ways, and it meanders all over the place. The narrative is disjointed. And yet, I really felt like the writer is very genuine and real, because I think his life lacks closure, and I think he's honest about that. Maybe spending time meditating on how closure is not a bad thing but a state of possibility might help some of us. Not necessarily possibility of reconciliation with our exes, but possibility as far as the tons of directions our lives might take....

[Kimmerz]

Mirage, thank you for posting about happy endings. I wish there was more of that to read about!

Antonia, I just posted on Tad's thread.

I really feel that we mourn the loss of what we had and who these people were at one time. Especially if the good times surely out weighed the bad.

My children even mourn the good times as a family that we had with their father when it was all 4 of us. We consistently remember funny things.

I've come to grips and acceptance of some things. One, I will always love my XH for the rest of my life. I just will. But I accept that right now he is no longer the person that I would be able to have a relationship with NOW.

Will he ever see the light? Will he change with he help of God?

I have no way of knowing. I hope so, but just don't know. Maybe Im not supposed to know. So I'm letting go, and letting God deal with him, because seriously only God can help him now.