When tapestries of life get tangled in the loom.

[25yearsmlc]

All great advice, thank you,

Got it. Young Bruce has to be perfect when I return him.
I will buy him extra clothes too, and diapers. (she usually gives me a bag, with diapers in it, a changing mat -that I lost last time- and his milk made of formula and natural milk).

Today she wrote she hadn't heard from me (well yeah, I have detached) and asked to postpone the visit. I wrote back no problem.


Just curious, why'd she want to postpone the visit? Did you ask? If not, why not? Remember it's more important that you make time with your son the priority- than being 'agreeable' to her, b/c that can look like time with him is no big deal.

Then I wrote another email, saying that when I bring S back I try for him to be clean, and I didn't see his wet socks, and I know that traces in the bum can cause a painful rash. And also that the muffin he had was just a crumb and I avoid fatty food for him --> This will reassure her that I pay attention.

I want her to see me as a responsible parent, (which I am by the way).

Okay good.

On the proceedings side, well, my L ask her L to encourage W to grant me more time with S, because they're postponing the hearing date. No formal response yet.

not sure what this^^ means. You want more time with your son BECAUSE the hearing is delayed? What does that mean? I don't see the relationship between the two.

I aked W if I could see S one more visit/week on Saturdays. No response yet neither.

Ask your L how much you can do right now, b/c I'd want more than a 2 hour visit. Otherwise how will you learn to put him to sleep or to bathe him regularly OR to have him overnight?

I assume that by now she must have read my sworn deposition. And regardless of whether she likes it or not, my attitude is detachment. No writing often emails. No long emails either. And when I do write, straight to the point. Only concerning S. And no more "how you're doing", " I hope you're doing fine", "See you later aligator" and "cheers". None of this anymore.

She needs the space to sort out whatever she needs to.
In the meantime, I'm working on being a good dad, changing diapers and all.

So, it's kind of status quo for the moment.
Any ideas on how I should handle the sitch?
Thanx,
B.

I think this is the way to handle things.

Keep in mind that it takes this behavior + TIME and you have not had much time doing it. SHE hasn't had much time.

All she knows is that who you WERE...and not much about who you want to become...that takes time + consistent change on your end.

So keep making the changes and give it more time. A lot more time.

Legally, I'd rush nothing, EXCEPT more time with your son.

[Big Bruce]

Ah ah,
Yes, my S's name is Bruce as well.
I love him so much I gave him my own name. (I was the one who wanted the baby. W didn't really want one). You'd have never guessed, heh?

(Which is kind of a give away if ever W finds these posts. Oh well, I'm just sharing how I see things IMO.)

I wonder how W manages, he looks like me and has the same name..

Yesterday, W said it was 4pm and she hadn't heard from me yet. Usually I confirm way before the time at which I go to pick up S. This time I tried to keep contact to a minimum, and show up as usual (since 6 months) at 5:30-ish (after work), on a Thursday, which she knows it's the day she allows me to visit.
She said she had to go somewhere yesterday evening at that she would be taking S with her, and we should arrange a later time.
I said no problem in a first email and to call me. She didn't call. So in a second email, I proposed to come pick S up today evening, to make up for yesterday --> This show interest in seeing S.
And I don't mean that in a tactical way, but she can't just cancel my already rare time with my S, and don't expect me to ask for replacement.


On the proceedings side, yes I'm asking one more visit day per week because they are delaying the hearing.
In my view of things, W is preventing me to have access to my S. She is only allowing me two visits a week, of 2 hours each. Which is outrageously insufficient I think.
--> Indeed, how am I supposed to learn to take care of him, change diapers, bathe him, have overnights, etc... if W won't allow me more time with him?

Yes, my L thinks I should have more time with S too. But W doesn't agree. And that's the whole purpose of the hearing, mind you.

--> I think the grudge she is keeping is bigger than I thought. This thing won't be resolved just like that. She is super resolved in getting rid of me, to the point of denying me my S.
If it wasn't for me talking about asking the help of the Court, we'd still be with supervised visits or who knows what other scheme to further reduce my access.

Contrary to Crimson and other's sitch, my W doesn't live alone, she has the full support of her parents, you know the ones who didn't come to our wedding. She doesn't feel a void in her life or has the space to miss me or have memories resurface, because her parents are there. Therefore, it makes it super difficult for her to make any change of mind, nevermind a change of heart.

How to soften her heart nonetheless? That is the one million dollar question.
Bonsoir,
B.

[MrBond]

Wait, so you wanted a child and she didn't want one. Then when your son was born you didn't help her out with the baby (or at least not actively). I can see why she's resentful of you. I don't think you get it that you have a way of manipulating things to ultimately get what you want (playing victim, bullying, etc.).

Even on here many people can see right through that, but either you refused to see it or are ignoring it. And that's why it's so frustrating to you. Things aren't going the way you want them to. That attitude is what needs to change.

[lionhrt]

Hi Bruce,

'Yesterday, W said it was 4pm and she hadn't heard from me yet. Usually I confirm way before the time at which I go to pick up S. This time I tried to keep contact to a minimum, and show up as usual (since 6 months) at 5:30-ish (after work), on a Thursday, which she knows it's the day she allows me to visit.
She said she had to go somewhere yesterday evening at that she would be taking S with her, and we should arrange a later time.'

Bruce ^^^^let me get this. You usually confirm the time you pick up your S with W. You decide not too because of detachment, W does not hear from you and therefore makes arrangements for her and S instead. You need to stop playing games in the name of detachment. This is not detachment, confirming time was a good thing, it shows you are responsible and taking the initiative with regard to seeing S so why would you stop doing this...which then results in you not seeing your S!

'I said no problem in a first email and to call me. She didn't call. So in a second email, I proposed to come pick S up today evening, to make up for yesterday --> This show interest in seeing S'

^^^because of not letting her know the time because you did'nt want to communicate with her...you end up communicating with her more and asking her to call you.

'And I don't mean that in a tactical way, but she can't just cancel my already rare time with my S, and don't expect me to ask for replacement'.

So why did'nt you confirm the time with her? IDK whether or not she missed on purpose. But by calling her as you normal you could have avoided all this...

'I think the grudge she is keeping is bigger than I thought. This thing won't be resolved just like that. She is super resolved in getting rid of me, to the point of denying me my S.'

^^^^get rid of the victim. You need to build her trust which will take months/years of regular time with S. If she is trying to deny your S then let the courts decide...but you are not helping yourself.

'Contrary to Crimson and other's sitch, my W doesn't live alone, she has the full support of her parents, you know the ones who didn't come to our wedding. She doesn't feel a void in her life or has the space to miss me or have memories resurface, because her parents are there. Therefore, it makes it super difficult for her to make any change of mind, nevermind a change of heart'.

^^^ I doubt very much your W wants to live with her parents. Does any adult want to live with their parents other than through desperation? and her parents won't replace a loving relationship with someone, which is made more difficult if you are living with your parents around 24/7.....and even if she likes living with her parents because she gets free childcare it is nothing to do with you.

'ow to soften her heart nonetheless? That is the one million dollar question'


^^^Bruce if you carry on a JCB could not hack through the wall she has built up around her heart.

Bruce, I am not trying to pick holes in everything you write. But you seriously need to 180 your behaviours and for a start:

Victim - stop playing the victim card now. Your W left for a reason and (like most of us here)that reason is you, so you are not a victim in this.
Detachment - you are not getting what detaching is. There is a link somewhere if someone else could put it on here. Detaching is not just about communication especially where S is concerned.
Boyish behaviour - you need to grow up, act responsible and stop the games, seriously.
Softening W heart - you are not doing any of this to soften her heart.
Parenting - what are you doing/learning to be a better parent? have you got people to talk to for advice on how to help you with this?
Bitterness - I sense a lot of bitterness against W and her parents. Lose the attitude, if you work on you her parents will see your improvements and may help W see them too.

I still don't think the penny has dropped Bruce.

[25yearsmlc]

Bruce,

in my most recent post to you I said, again, that this will take TIME. So you ask us, again, "how to soften her heart"?

We have all said the same thing. Usually someone in your shoes will get conflicting advice, but you don't.

You get almost totally similar advice from all of us. We say to

1) be there for your son, That means learning all about HIM and kids his age. (What steps have done to puruse this goal?)---

As I've asked before, repeatedly, do you know OTHER people with little ones?Someday you'll be able to arrange play dates w/them, and meanwhile, ask THEM questions if you don't want to ask your wife every thing.

2) Be consistent with the changes you are showing, and give them

3) TIME...a lot of it, way way more than YOU think is "necessary". I said once a "minimum of 90 days" and your reply was "by Christmas"...

Can you see now, that at a minimum, 90 days is just to show that A change is happening. It takes MORE time to show that it might be a lasting change...


What's confusing you in this? Seriously, we have no guarantees. None of us ever have.

But UNLIKE most people here, you have gotten consistently similiar advice, from both men and women here, those who have reconciled and those who have not...

Why not take our advice? And for more than a few days. Seriously...at least let us know you did read our posts b/c when you repeat the SAME question a few days later, it makes me wonder.

Show interest in your son FOR HIS SAKE and then, keep doing that...

[Big Bruce]

Good evening,
I understand all your advice, it makes sense.
I know I have to give it time, and I'm just checking here if what I'm doing is on track. Being accountable that's all.

Ok, going dark on my emails regarding when I was supposed to show up was a bad idea --> Lesson learned. It doesn't work.

Victim card. I don't know what to say. The promise was that no matter what , we would stick together. I mean no matter what. Through sickness, cheating, poverty, ML crisis, baldness, extra pounds, prison, name it. That was the promise. Well, I'm sorry, the other party lied to me. I may have been negligent, been a jerk and what not, but the deal was that we'd stick together until death did us part.

Parenting. For the moment it is very limited. Today I picked S up. Rushed to Mc Donald's to have him play in the play structure, rushed to Wal mart to see if I could find spare clothes and nappies, rushed to my place to play with him and read a book, rushed back to W's to be on time before being accused of being late.

I began asking W questions by email about S stuff. Should I continue?

Softening W's heart. It's a by-product only. I'm not focusing on it at the moment.

Detachment Still have to strike the right balance between less emails and shorter, and being warm and communicating about S.
I don't want W to have the impression I'm still pursuing her by playing overly interested in S.

Bitterness That's true, I still harbor some. Difficult to control though. I'm trying my best to not feel resentful or vindicative, or something. Thanks for pointing that out.

I know the assistant pastor of the previous church she used to attend (which her parents just left btw), who's got a 2-year-ish daughter. But they got a son two months ago too, so maybe not the best couple to go bother now.
Apart from them, I don't know anybody else.
Remember I arrived 6 months ago. It's not my culture or language or land, or anything. I don't know no one, and nothing in general on how things function. I have no family or friends yet. All I do is work and struggle the rest of the time to keep a normal-ish life, wash and eat. Very humbling experience indeed.

Thank you for the input, I'll keep posting from time to time. Journalling, only to make sure I'm doing the right thing.
God bless you all,
Au revoir,

Bruce.

[Soul.Searching]

You say it's a by product only and your not focusing on it but I find it rather interesting that it was on your list at all,.., let alone being first on the list.

[lionhrt]

Hi bruce,

Feeling like a victim, bitter, anger, resentment are all normal feelings and I bet everyone on here feels or has felt like this.

But you realise in time that the only true victim in all this is your S (unless you were abusive). He is the innocent party whos life will be affected more than you or W and that is another reason why it is so important for you to learn and bond with him as he has no choice in all this. FWIW this is the part that angers me most now about my sitch and it is not about me anymore. That is why everyone is saying to work on parenting and your S.

A while back I wrote my list of priorities and had 3 in this order:

1. My son (how can I make his life as good as possible)
2. Me (changes, working on me to be the best me I can)
3. Wife (getting my Wife back)

I break these down into activities/goals/180's

I have not even started on 3 as this is mainly the bi-product but occcasionally test the water by trying her LL. But a while back just having a coffee with W was one of my goals under 3. But if I achieve 1 and 2 and 3 never happens I want to be in a position where I am fine with the outcome...and all 3 are dependent on each other.

Some might not do it this way, some might not have a 3 at all, some might only have a 3 (this is DB right?) but these help me stay focussed. Whenever I wobble (feel anger, victim etc), which I often do, I refer back to what I want to achieve out of this process.

With regard to S, W may at first think it is pursuing to ask about him. But provided you stick to it just being about S and you be the best dad you can be then her suspicions will drop. Remember you taking such an interest will be unusual for her and she may well question your motives. That is normal for any 180, me doing the laundry had my W questioning why.

Keep doing the right thing and she will slowly believe your motives. When she does this and sees what a good time you have together and trusts you then she may be open to more time with him. IDK, I have heard of W who withold contact with S to get back at the father but it is usually where the father has been the one to walk out.

Re detaching I have read sitchs here that are years in and the LBS still hasnt detached. I struggle with this but the thing is to not rush it, just keep working on it. It will take a long time. For now communicating about your S is fine provided you are not using it as an excuse to talk to W - she will see through this. You seem to be sticking to Sandis rules in terms of communication but remember the exception is welfare of S....and you have a right to ask about this IMHO.

Re your comment about asking W questions it depends what about, but no e-mails about anything other than S and keep the balance right. You don't want to e-mail her everyday as this will be seen as pursuit. Maybe a couple of times a week to confirm arrangements and then end the message with how is he or hope he is okay? or if he has had an appointment then definately ask how it went if you cant attend with him.

Keep going Bruce.

[theUF]

Victim card. I don't know what to say. The promise was that no matter what , we would stick together. I mean no matter what. Through sickness, cheating, poverty, ML crisis, baldness, extra pounds, prison, name it. That was the promise. Well, I'm sorry, the other party lied to me. I may have been negligent, been a jerk and what not, but the deal was that we'd stick together until death did us part.

Is that the only premise of marriage?
There are several important commitments in marriage besides staying together.

Contrary to Crimson and other's sitch, my W doesn't live alone, she has the full support of her parents, you know the ones who didn't come to our wedding. She doesn't feel a void in her life or has the space to miss me or have memories resurface, because her parents are there. Therefore, it makes it super difficult for her to make any change of mind, nevermind a change of heart.

That's an assumption I had as well, and it was a wrong one.

[adinva]

The promise was that no matter what , we would stick together. I mean no matter what. Through sickness, cheating, poverty, ML crisis, baldness, extra pounds, prison, name it. That was the promise. Well, I'm sorry, the other party lied to me. I may have been negligent, been a jerk and what not, but the deal was that we'd stick together until death did us part.

I hope when you proposed you were clear about that, or if you get another shot at marriage that you make it clear. Your deal STINKS.

You messed up. You created a bad marriage, and expected your W to stick with it no matter whether you brought your best to it or couldn't give a cr*p, and you're mad that she left it. And your anger and hurt about that is drawing your focus away from what you should be doing from this point forward.