Keeping my wife from walking out

[E2Dad]

My wife and I had a seemingly wonderful relationship for 10 years. We have two beautiful daughters, 8 and 4. We believe we were in a codependent relationship for most of our marriage, where I was the needy and dependent person and my wife took care of all my emotional needs because she liked the control. That balance, while unhealthy, worked for us for a long time.

Depression, low self-worth and lack of confidence inside me led me to not be as involved in our household as I should have. I’m still trying to figure out the whys for the things I did, or did not do, that caused my wife to start losing feelings and respect for me, so please bear with me. I’m not a jerk—I’m a very nice guy (perhaps a little too nice), I don’t drink or smoke, I don’t yell, I’m a great provider and a great dad. I’ve always treated my wife with respect and love, although internal stress caused me to withdraw occasionally. She was always there to pull me out of it, in addition to taking on more than her share of household/family duties. We decided from the beginning that she should be a SAHM until both kids were of school age, and this will end later this year when our youngest turns 5.

I think my wife started developing some walk away wife traits at the end of 2011. We never, ever fought or even had minor disagreements. My wife tells me now that she was always afraid of hurting my feelings because I have traditionally been a more sensitive kind of person and I hate conflict due to my parents’ nasty and messy marriage/divorce and due to my dad being a very controlling and verbally abusive parent. I think she tried too hard to make our marriage seem perfect both externally and internally, and eventually she just got tired. I had no knowledge of this, just as it seems a lot of men don’t have knowledge of storms like this brewing. Everyone we know thought we were the absolutely perfect couple who would be married forever.

My wife and daughters went on a 3-month vacation to my wife’s home country in May. We had planned this for years because we wanted both daughters to be immersed in my wife’s culture to better grasp the language and a sense of where their mom is from. It was greatly anticipated. My work schedule prevented me from going for long, and eventually my wife helped me decide that I shouldn’t go due to stress and because the one time I went with her early in our marriage I got terribly sick the whole time we were there. I should have gone this time even if only for a week.

My wife came back in July and told me that she had had an affair with an old acquaintance while she was there. She said that as soon as she got away from me, she felt like she had some sort of life crisis and moment of understanding that she no longer wanted to care about me like she always had, because I was too big a drain on her emotionally. I was devastated, but my wife wanted to work things out, and so did I. We both entered marriage counseling and individual counseling—for me especially because I finally want to rid myself of my unhealthy childhood. I had been feebly trying for the last couple of years, but my wife always made me so comfortable that I never tried very hard. I see all of it now, but it always seems to come too late. My wife wanted to understand what made her want to rescue me emotionally for so long instead of forcing me to deal with my issues on my own, and she’s been working with her therapist on breaking the codependency.

Things started well, but my progress has been pretty slow. I started off still looking to my wife for comfort and to prop up my confidence, and she told me and our counselor that those behaviors were off-limits, and the only way she felt she could separate from our unhealthy attachment was to detach as much as possible while still living together. It hasn’t gone well. She kept detaching until now she is just cold and distant. She says I am the one who has to do the lion’s share of changing and trying because she is too tired, but I need SOMETHING from her. It’s very difficult to approach someone who can barely look me in the eye and who pulls away when I try to hug or get near to her. She then tells me I have no confidence-- well of course not! She maintains that it is not her problem anymore, and I completely understand where she’s coming from. I keep telling her to have patience and understanding and to keep an open mind if she indeed wants this family to stay together. She tried for a little while but now has withdrawn further to the point where she now talks about divorce because she can’t take being here with me only taking baby steps.

What have I been doing? In addition to therapy, I have returned to the gym, started reconnecting with old buddies to start doing things with again, I’ve begun picking up old hobbies that I dropped in the name of being home with the family, and I have taken over control of most aspects of the house, yard, finances, discipline of the kids’, and I plan all sorts of family trips to places I never wanted to go before because traffic and crowds “stressed me out”. I’m picking up all the pieces of my life that I let go over the years, but my wife says it isn’t enough. The one big spot is that I don’t know how to love her like a man should, and she won’t tell me what that means. She says all the other changes are great but I don’t know how to express love. It is for this reason that she just can’t bear to live with me anymore. I’m afraid of this being too late, and I feel powerless to stop it.

I've tried bits of the 180, but I've always been afraid to implement it fully because my wife notices and tells me that I'm ignoring her and it must mean I am quitting trying to save the marriage.

[ForeverYoung]

If you want any chance of saving your marriage you HAVE to give her space. Don't try to hug her, tell her you love her, ask for reassurances, etc. It makes you look needy and makes her pull away. You have to show strength and confidence here.

The GAL things you have been doing sound great, as does the taking more control of the household. Keep that up, and don't worry that she says it isn't enough right now, they always say that when they have given up. It doesn't mean she can't change her mind, but it will take plenty of time for her to believe your changes are real.

Are you reading DR or DB?

[AnotherStander]

Like FY said, you need to give her time and space and immediately cease all the needy/ pursuing behavior. She's basically told you that it is driving her away and she's right!

Depression, low self-worth and lack of confidence inside me led me to not be as involved in our household as I should have.

Ask yourself this, what attracted your wife to you to begin with? Was it because you were needy, depressed and lacked confidence? Or was it because you were a strong, independent man's man? Now ask yourself what it was about your behavior back then that attracted her to you. Then figure out how to get that "old you" back again.

I’m still trying to figure out the whys for the things I did, or did not do, that caused my wife to start losing feelings and respect for me, so please bear with me. I’m not a jerk—I’m a very nice guy (perhaps a little too nice), I don’t drink or smoke, I don’t yell, I’m a great provider and a great dad. I’ve always treated my wife with respect and love, although internal stress caused me to withdraw occasionally.

You just described me. And I suspect you feel like I did just after BD, that something was surely wrong with my W because I was darned near perfect and had done nothing to deserve this But I did do things wrong, and you did too. So figure out what those things were/ are and do 180's on them.

We never, ever fought or even had minor disagreements. My wife tells me now that she was always afraid of hurting my feelings because I have traditionally been a more sensitive kind of person and I hate conflict due to my parents’ nasty and messy marriage/divorce and due to my dad being a very controlling and verbally abusive parent.

In other words, she felt like she had to always walk around on eggshells and could not tell you what she was really thinking and feeling. That's deadly in a marriage. A marriage that never has fights or disagreements usually has serious underlying issues.

I had no knowledge of this, just as it seems a lot of men don’t have knowledge of storms like this brewing. Everyone we know thought we were the absolutely perfect couple who would be married forever.

Same here. But the problems were there and they were real. My W tried to tell me in her own way, but women and men don't communicate on the same wavelength, so it didn't get through.

I started off still looking to my wife for comfort and to prop up my confidence

You've really got to stop that kind of behavior ASAP. Your W is not there for your emotional support anymore. You've got to try and get her back, and in order to do that you've got to show her confidence and high self-esteem.

She says I am the one who has to do the lion’s share of changing and trying because she is too tired, but I need SOMETHING from her.

No you don't. You don't need her and you don't want her to feel needed. No one likes feeling needed. People like feeling wanted, not needed. Learn the difference.

It’s very difficult to approach someone who can barely look me in the eye and who pulls away when I try to hug or get near to her.

That is pursuing and pressuring. She doesn't want that now and you need to stop it!

She then tells me I have no confidence-- well of course not! She maintains that it is not her problem anymore, and I completely understand where she’s coming from.

Well you're in the right place, because DB'ing is all about giving you back your confidence. So get started ASAP. Have you read DR?

I keep telling her to have patience and understanding and to keep an open mind if she indeed wants this family to stay together.

Words are meaningless to her right now. You've got to show her actions. Consistent actions over months and months.

I’m picking up all the pieces of my life that I let go over the years, but my wife says it isn’t enough.

It takes a lot of time. She says that now, but in 6 months or more she may very well change her mind. Think of it this way, at one time she was madly in love with you. She flipped a switch and isn't anymore. But the switch can always be flipped back again.

[7720]

Hey E2 I hear ya..I have felt the same way at times ----losing my confidence etc...but the advice above is right you have to give her time and space..I did what you are doing and it does not work..don't persue. I still have times when my W brings up D I tell her don't do that and try to convince her otherwise...focus on your family and be strong for your kids...how old are they anyway?

[E2Dad]

Ok, thanks for the advice on giving her space and time.

Why then is she contradicting that? She says she needs to feel loved with passion and confidence (where right now she feels none of that from me), and as time goes on she is feeling more lonely. Like I say, most previous attempts by me at giving her space have been met with the accusation that I am just avoiding her because I want her to make the first step at showing affection. In addition, she says she has a limited time frame--that she can't wait for me for much longer. When I hear that is when I start to feel somewhat panicked. I'm doing 100% better at keeping that feeling hidden from her in our interactions, but it still follows me at periods throughout the day.

Don't get me wrong, I hate it that my wife feels this way about me now, and I want to do whatever possible to help take those feelings away. I understand most of this is about me, and I am willing to do whatever it takes to fix the unhealthy behavior I have contributed to our marriage. If it means that I have to fully back off and mostly focus on me and the kids then I will absolutely do it. Obviously what I've been doing has not been working. DR has been ordered and is on the way.

I'm not just relying on the book either--I'm doing some serious reflection on the things I did or didn't do that caused my wife to lose respect/feelings for me, and I really think I've made some positive changes in those areas.

I think a lot of things over time will be smoothed out, but I don't understand why my wife feels like the situation is so intolerable right now. Is it the pressure I'm directly or indirectly putting on her? I'm concerned that even though I don't say it, she feels that I am expecting her to just "snap out of it" and realize things are going to be OK. This is what I so desperately need to fix or change, because I think it is at the crux of our current stalemate, and why she feels like she has no choice but to leave.

Oh, for 7720, my daughters are 8 and 4.

[AnotherStander]

Why then is she contradicting that? She says she needs to feel loved with passion and confidence (where right now she feels none of that from me), and as time goes on she is feeling more lonely. Like I say, most previous attempts by me at giving her space have been met with the accusation that I am just avoiding her because I want her to make the first step at showing affection.

OK, well in your case perhaps a 180 is not giving her space, but trying to make her feel more loved. If that's what she's asking for then give it a try. DB'ing is all about trying different things and monitoring the results. If giving her space hasn't worked, then try something else. Have you read the 5 Love Languages? I highly recommend it, it'll give you lots of tools for showing your wife love.

[ForeverYoung]

Ok, thanks for the advice on giving her space and time.

Why then is she contradicting that? She says she needs to feel loved with passion and confidence (where right now she feels none of that from me), and as time goes on she is feeling more lonely. Like I say, most previous attempts by me at giving her space have been met with the accusation that I am just avoiding her because I want her to make the first step at showing affection. In addition, she says she has a limited time frame--that she can't wait for me for much longer. When I hear that is when I start to feel somewhat panicked. I'm doing 100% better at keeping that feeling hidden from her in our interactions, but it still follows me at periods throughout the day.

Good job hiding the panicky feelings. I know how tough it can be, but it will begin to get easier as you move forward.

Regarding connecting with her/ showing intimacy: It's like a dance, and you need to follow her lead. If you approach her and she is unreceptive, you back off, give her space. If she engages, you do the same.

Do you guys talk much? As long as you avoid the big relationship topics, this is a great way to connect. Again, follow her lead.

[E2Dad]

Hi AS, yes I have the 5 Love Languages book. My W and I started reading it together in December but she told me she didn't want to any more because it was too painful to see how I had stopped meeting her needs. I continued for a little while on my own, but stopped during the holidays. Need to restart...
I have also just realized that a 180 just means doing the opposite (or different) from what I had been doing. My approach of just giving her a lot of space is not working. If anything it seems to make her feel more neglected. It IS like a dance FY, thanks for that analogy.

We used to talk endlessly about anything. She's a huge talker, I am somewhat less of a talker but we meshed pretty well on that end. Now there are long periods of silence where I get uncomfortable because I can't think of anything to talk about. She's challenging me because she's not initiating conversation, and I'm failing. This is a topic where I think I can make some quick progress. I noticed that when we talk for extended periods, we seem to just feel closer.

OK, item 1: more conversation. Thanks guys. I'll report back.

[ForeverYoung]

My wife and I still have long periods of few words at times. It used to make me very uncomfortable but not so much any more. I try to remember highlights from my day for something to talk about.

The main thing to remember is to act "as if" you are not uncomfortable even when she's quiet. If she isn't initiating or responding much, that's ok, don't force it... just go do something constructive. Try again later, always keeping a PMA.

[labug]

I am somewhat less of a talker but we meshed pretty well on that

How do you know that? If she told you then it might be true but it might also be another one of those areas where we thought everything was hunky-dory.

How's the 'more conversation' going?