Walking the path to my own happiness

[FloydMan]

The Egg Scene:
This is the dynamic in my M, and I assume in many or most marriages when in crisis. Now, here is how it compares to mine. I would’ve answered the same way as your H.
You see how he did something for the family but what you pointed out what he did ‘not’ do. It was inadvertent on your part, but that is the sensitivity. I too do a gazillion things but get only noticed for what I did not do. Your thanks for the breakfast fell on deaf ears because he was already insulted for his inadequacy, as inadvertent as it was. That is why he ignored all 3 attempts. Just say it once as after that it looks like you are looking for the recognition.
Now, an A is hurtful on so many, many levels. Your H inside feels that he had done many things for the M and family but missed one thing (intimacy/connection/attention to you etc) and was punished in the most hurtful way possible. I say this because it is my view too as right or wrong as it may be, these are the feelings and as we always agree on this board, feelings are not wrong. Do you see the parallel? He feels he cannot please and never has pleased you….in anything.
So, when he does something simply say thanks or acknowledge it in some way, but never, ever point out what’s missing. I assume that it was obvious there were no eggs so in situations like this maybe word it to offer some…or whatever the situation is. Such as hypothetically is he does the laundry acknowledge it. Don’t point out if he mixed the wrong colours, or folded the way you don’t prefer. This is actually example of what I get. I do the laundry and get criticized for it because I don’t fold it correctly…even my own stuff. It hits the psyche like you just can’t please no matter what the effort. Yes, confidence is rattled in so many areas because of this dynamic be it sexually, chores, work/income, parenting etc etc.
Now, you also said you felt dissed and had to engage in a fight. NO! You don’t have to engage in a fight, especially if it is to get a point across or as you say communicate. Why would he agree with you if you are starting in on him especially after feeling insulted?
Now, the dismissive “Whatever”: Oh boy, that gets my craw. So I can relate. But we have to remember, this is the way they are being passive aggressive and dismissing us. It is an ager response to hurt. The “No, there’s no eggs” is not passive aggressive in my view. It was an overt defensive, angry response. Your comment of “But no eggs” would be more passive-aggressive whether consciously or not, inadvertent or not. That is how it would be taken
Sarcasm is anger’s bitter cousin.
Lastly, you are bothered that he is giving up and says that he is not interested to work on it, but you also say the same things. So, how is he supposed to feel like working on it too if you keep reminding him that you have lost faith etc. You are also demanding forgiveness. That is pressure on him. Trust takes a long time to build after an A. It is not turning on a switch and saying you’re sorry and all is done. Trust is not the same as forgiveness. Please again reread DR on infidelity or any notable author on the topic of infidelity/healing/trust/forgiveness issues. They all say the same things.
You are doing great at recognizing these things, now as longrun said see if you can at the moment. This is the really, really hard part but you can do it.

[GH31]

Hi RegretfulLA,

This is a great post from FloydMan, even if some bits of it don't resonate with you.

RLA, I read your earlier post and I can tell you an A is more overwhelming that the betrayer will ever realize. I am not saying this or what I am about to say as laying blame or guilt, but rather try to give you insight from this side of the fence, as your posts have given me insight too. Yes, your H does need that assurance otherwise it will fail…..we were well warned in MC. My W ignored the advice of the 2 MC’s, the books After the Affair and 5LL’s, along with other publication by the more prominent people on this topic. Read Divorce Remedy chapter on Infidelity again too. They all say the same thing and the prescribed route. These are the best minds in the world on this topic and to ignore that advice and the advice of people that have been through it just for sake of pride and stubbornness in my view a little selfish in light of what I was put through. Sorry but I am being kindly blunt. It may not be selfish, but sure comes across that way. You cannot blame the betrayed spouse for the A because your needs weren’t met or any other reason. Was his needs met? Was mine? Don’t know about your H, but mine weren’t. I dropped the ball in other areas and worked hard to correct them as prescribed. Both spouses are responsible for the dysfunction of the M leading to the A. But the Betrayer needs to own this and make it right as much as possible. Don’t look at it as “the land of guilt and self-flaggellation” as you say. Look at it as prescribed medication. My W has been on Blood Pressure meds for 5 years and takes them religiously because the doctor says she needs them for her health. Well, 2 doctors and the best in the business prescribe this method of healing so why is it brushed off. Sometimes the medicine is bad tasting, but needed. It would not last forever, but required for trust to be built.
It seems you and your H are both waiting for the other to prove who is more committed. Well, is DB not teaching us to take our own action and put it in place and not worry about the other person and what they do? Take action. I am glad you are going to MC. Really take heed of the healing advice on an A. It is not about blaming the A or the reason for it, but it does need to be addressed and dealt with. Actions speak louder than words of promise. Just trying to help kiddo as it seems you are not ready to throw in the towel contrary to what you say you are doing. Clearly your H is not done with his actions contrary to his words. It is tough, hard and hurting on both of you.

Here are a couple of things I experienced as a result of dealing with an affair as a BH in my marriage:

1. Digestive system shut down and I went for about ten days without eating anything.

2. Chest felt like someone had taken a circular saw to it.

3. Panic attacks every lunch time. They lessened in severity with time but didn't disappear entirely until some time in 2012.

4. Post traumatic stress disorder for a couple of years afterwards. All the textbook symptoms.

5. Fired from two jobs because of my complete inability to concentrate (and I voluntarily left another).

6. Couldn't read a book (other than a marriage book), watch a film or play a game of chess for nearly two years due to my mind completely shutting down.

It was certainly a "character building" experience.

I really do feel your husband's pain but he has something I would have killed for all those years ago, a wife who loves him, is sincerely remorseful and who would do anything to put things right.

I think he's being a fool by refusing to let you into his heart again and he doesn't know what's about to hit him with this separation.

GH31

[FloydMan]

Good list GH31. Definitely all of these at play with betrayed spouses male or female. The pain is physical, emotional and psychological.
I had nightmares. They were very bad, graphic nightmares for 6 months. I was never prone to them, not even as a kid. There were graphic images of my W killing me with knives, sitting on me and slashing me. There were dreams of the OM and W plotting to kill me etc. This went on for 6 months. I would wake up sweating and terrified. W would calm me down. They subsided about a year ago. The psychologist told me this is very, very normal and will fade and disappear. They did finally. Lack of sleep, stress and fear takes its toll. I had to deal with the post-traumatic stress problem on my own therapy. It was intense. Still deal with the concentration like GH31 says and I have trouble enjoying the things I used to love…movies, baseball, hockey etc. My coaching skills were hampered. All things slowly coming back and they do say 2-3 years. It has been 19 months or so since revealed. The betrayal is so damaging, worse than the sex part of it.

[mamabird]

Yeah. It's a nightmare dynamic. I do let lots of things go and I really wasn't trying to criticize, but that's how it came out.

Certainly I can make more of an effort to just be chill... happy vs. right... it's hard but necessary in this R or any other.

So now my concern is this - H has so much resentment built up - and had it before BD - I'm not sure how he will ever let go of it. He's a grudge holder to begin with. But let's say I become the model DB'er - just letting stuff go, doing everything exactly right - and H decided that the R was worth another chance. I'm not sure he would ever be able to truly let go of the past. Maybe that's his work to do. I'm sure he sees the amount of work he'd have to do as insurmountable. He would have to forgive, and trust, for starters, which is hard enough. But then he'd have to focus on his communication style, focus on giving me the benefit of the doubt and also admit that those things need changing.

By the way, I am trying to focus on my communication style too, but I have a hard time giving him the benefit of the doubt. Clearly I'm not doing it consistently right now. I just don't have faith that he wants the M to stay together badly enough (or at all) to do all the work that would be required. I only say I'm giving up because of this ^^^. I just see it as a hill that is incredibly difficult to climb and unfortunately, he's more selfish than a person needs to be to climb that hill.

However, I will continue to hang in there and try to make things pleasant as long as we are living together. I can't stop him from leaving. All I can do is be a better me.

[mamabird]

It's hard not to feel discouraged when I have been doing all the work and making all the sacrifices for 7 months, and he hasn't been making any effort to reciprocate. He does appreciate but the lack of reciprocation is wearing on me big time. Not to mention the lack of affection/attention.

[JuneReN]

Starting to pay attention to the patterns going on with me and my H. This morning my son had an early soccer game so H made some food. I asked him if there was anything left or if I'd have to get something on my own. He said, "There's toast, bacon and coffee." My response: "But no eggs?"

I think I need to focus on identifying the moments in which he's being attacking and letting the arrows go by instead of slinging back. That is hard but I think it will be a good practice for me.

H makes breakfast. You ask if there is any left. He says yes, but basically you shut him down. How about "thanks, I am starving ...do you mind if I have some?"

I would take the comment the same way. I made breakfast and all spouse saw was what was missing instead of what I did. You may have not meant it that way, but it was perceived that way.

It is so cool you have begun to recognize this, but it was not an arrow. You got an Act of Service and you didn't even realize it.

Even if you get in this situation and you don't like what's coming out of your mouth, stop it. Even backtrack and say " you know, that came out wrong. Let me start again." And start again with a different dialogue.

Today for instance, I said something to a mutual friend while sitting with her and H. I heard myself and sent a text later on to clarify what I was saying, simply because it sounded like was blaming H. Also showed H the text, and it was not complimentary to me, but praised him. It was only the truth and I had to take ownership.

So, I like that you are beginning to realize the patterns. If my H made breakfast, all I would say is thanks!

[mamabird]

It is so cool you have begun to recognize this, but it was not an arrow. You got an Act of Service and you didn't even realize it.

Yes, it was nice of him to make breakfast, but the truth is I had asked him the night before to take care of breakfast today (for S). If he hadn't left any, it would have been horrendously rude. Sure, I was in the wrong to ask him about the eggs. Now THAT would have been an Act of Service. To me, Acts of Service are doing things that are not asked or helping on projects, not family chores. Something a little extra just to make my life easier. For instance, I asked him to wash the dishes today while I went to the grocery store to buy food for dinner. He said "no problem" and he did it. Is that an Act of Service? In my book, it doesn't qualify. It's a chore that needed to be done and we both live here.

There's actually a little more egg drama in our past. Just before BD, I was making breakfast for the kids on a weekday and they asked for eggs, so I made them eggs. I didn't ask H if he wanted any because he never ate breakfast with us during the week. But that day he stormed downstairs and called me a hypocrite (yelled at me) for not asking him if he wanted eggs. Because once, a long time ago, I got upset at him for making breakfast for himself (on a Sunday) and not for me. We have breakfast drama!!! Now I always make sure to ask, even if I think he's going to say no.

I guess I struggle with these things because I perceive and handle them soooo differently. If the situation had been reversed, first of all, I probably wouldn't have taken it personally. But even if I had, I would have said, "Sorry, no eggs today, and you're welcome." Maybe that's not the sweetest thing in the world to say, but it definitely gets the point across that the other person was missing the bigger picture. But then, I forget all about it.

Even if you get in this situation and you don't like what's coming out of your mouth, stop it. Even backtrack and say " you know, that came out wrong. Let me start again." And start again with a different dialogue.

That's a great suggestion. There have been times when I've caught myself starting to complain and then just said "Nevermind." I will try to remember that. The problem that I have is that sometimes I will say something that H will perceive as offensive without me realizing that it is offensive (to him) so I can't stop it.

An example: we were driving today and we drove past my mother's boyfriend's daughter's apartment. So I said, "that's where M's BF's D lives." The backstory here is that she is going to NY for a while and wants to sublet her apt - maybe to H - so it was apropos to bring it up since he could potentially be living there. He didn't really get upset but he told me not to bring that up in front of S9. S9 has no idea about this and it was such an innocuous comment, but H takes it to the next level and gets in a tizzy over nothing.

I heard a suggestion about taking inventory over your emotions when conflicts arise in a R. The suggestion is, "File a police report." This means, go over what happened and explain it back to yourself without using emotions. In other words, if the scene were videotaped, could someone else see what happened? The incident in the car with me pointing out the apt. clearly doesn't fit that bill.

[mamabird]

And thank you GH31 and FM - your insight into what happens after an A is very helpful. My H did have panic attacks the first time around and also went into a depression which he is still experiencing. I am sorry to hear what you went through. That must have been terrible. I know this has been very hard on my H too.

Both of you, GH and FM, have been treated horribly by your Ws. GH, when I read your story I was beyond shocked. She F'd with you big time, BIG TIME. I am amazed that you took her back. I mean, that was an unbelievable story.

And FM, your wife has also done her share of wavering and it sounds like you two have been through the ringer... currently though, she's treating you pretty badly I'd have to say.

Although I wasn't very happy in my M, my behavior never approached anything like what the two of you have experienced. Closer to FM but I know I am trying at least...

Perhaps the separation will serve to bring us closer together, but I don't know. Somehow I continue on this path though I don't feel like my heart is in it. I think about the hot guy from the party constantly. Maybe that's just a distraction or something to make me feel better, hope maybe. I don't know. We would have a lot of work to do to get where we needed to be. I'd be willing to try, but I just don't have very much faith in my H.

[mamabird]

One more thing and then I'm done...

This is for Wendylon if you are reading this - had to post here since I can't find a current thread for you.

Tonight H and I watched Downton Abbey and enjoyed it together. As soon as it was over he was up and out. Thought of you and your H watching Good Wife! At New Year's H stated he's giving up dessert (like yours) but I guess eating most of a cheesecake doesn't count. It does have cheese in it after all.

[scaredsilly]

"For instance, I asked him to wash the dishes today while I went to the grocery store to buy food for dinner. He said "no problem" and he did it. Is that an Act of Service?"

yes. anytime someone does something that benefits me (or my household), i think i need to be grateful. grocery shopping for your family is also an act of service that should be appreciated as such. i especially like the way he responded so nicely.

"Because once, a long time ago, I got upset at him for making breakfast for himself (on a Sunday) and not for me. We have breakfast drama!!! Now I always make sure to ask, even if I think he's going to say no."

this is good, IMO, the way a loving marriage should be.

"'Sorry, no eggs today, and you're welcome.' Maybe that's not the sweetest thing in the world to say, but it definitely gets the point across that the other person was missing the bigger picture."

sarcasm is hostility, IMO. it stunts communication and fosters defensiveness, which leads to resentment.
wouldn't it be better to say, "when you ask like that, i feel unappreciated", and leave it at that?

"An example: we were driving today and we drove past my mother's boyfriend's daughter's apartment. So I said, "that's where M's BF's D lives." The backstory here is that she is going to NY for a while and wants to sublet her apt - maybe to H - so it was apropos to bring it up since he could potentially be living there. He didn't really get upset but he told me not to bring that up in front of S9. S9 has no idea about this and it was such an innocuous comment, but H takes it to the next level and gets in a tizzy over nothing."

how about, "i'm sorry. i didn't mean that in a malicious way."

our H's need to work on communication but we can only work on ourselves. what i've found is once i communicate in a nonthreatening way, i don't feel as much resentment about how my H is communicating. i also see that he is somewhat disarmed by me when i do and is more likely to be less closed off himself.

LA, no offense intended here. i'm just trying to give you another way of looking at things.