I knew better...but I did it anyway...

[lostinscared]

SB

I am so sorry about your pain. I know how it feels and I cannot imagine going through what you are while pregnant.

I wanted to address the detaching with you. You must do that for your own sake. But I think there is a difference between detachment and anger. I think that shows through to our S's. This is not to say that you don't have every right in the world to be angry, you do, but you have to put it away. Someone explained to me that I needed to detach but "be the safe haven." Meaning, I had to detach but not be judgmental and angry. If he contacted me, I was cordial. If he needed something that didn't violate a boundary, I happily did it. I know that OW was causing all sorts of issues and when he was talking to me, I was the "safe" one because I wasn't angry, accusing or judgmental. I had to be very very mindful that I wasn't making decisions that hurt him. My H and I worked for the same company. OW did too. It would have been very easy for me to cause all kinds of trouble. To stand on my soapbox and explain how wronged I was. I didn't do that. I never uttered a word to anyone in the company. Did it hurt? You don't have a clue. I watched him and the OW go out for smokes together during the day, leave for lunch together and ultimately leave work together day after day. It stung bad. But I knew my H's self-esteem issues and I knew that making him feel guilty or judging him was going to drive him further and further away. I know you think everything is so wonderful with OW. Here's the thing. It isn't so wonderful as you think it is. You are his W still. That pisses her off. Every time you have interaction, that pisses her off (given your status as his W). You are pregnant. If you don't think that still eats at her, you're crazy. It does. And she is going to have outbursts about it. Your job? Be the safe haven. Don't ostracize him. That's what he wants. It makes it easier. I hope this makes sense.

I'm praying for you.

LIS

[Rick1963]

Just to piggy back on what LIS said.

Letting Go
Author unknown

To "let go" does not mean to stop caring, it means I can't do it for someone else.

To "let go" is not to cut myself off, it's the realization I can't control another.

To "let go" is not to enable, but to allow learning from natural consequences.

To "let go" is to admit powerlessness, which means the outcome is not in my hands.
...
To "let go" is not to try to change or blame another, it's to make the most of myself.

To "let go" is not to care for, but to care about.

To "let go" is not to fix, but to be supportive.

To "let go" is not to judge, but to allow another to be a human being.

To "let go" is not to be in the middle arranging the outcomes, but to allow others to affect their own destinies.

To "let go" is not to be protective, it's to permit another to face reality.

To "let go" is not to deny, but to accept.

To "let go" it not to nag, scold or argue, but instead to search out my own shortcomings, and correct them.

To "let go" is not to adjust everything to my desires but to take each day as it comes, and cherish myself in it.

To "let go" is not to criticize and regulate anybody but to try to become what I dream I can be.

To "let go" is not to regret the past, but to grow and live for the future.

To "let go" is to fear less, and love more.

[lostinscared]

Oh I just love that, Rick. Beautiful!!

[adinva]

sb I just sent you another email. Yours did not come thru.

[littleGTO]

Oh, SB,

I can soooo relate to your emotions regarding the OW! It hurts like nothing ever before--that H's thru us away & replaced us w a new, improved model. (Well, eventually the issues that brought them to this place this catch up to them. It is highly unlikely their little fairy tale romances will continue forever....but it IS possible. It DOES happen, but not likely.)

I am a similar place of anger & questioning the WHY of it all. A friend told me yesterday that if you continue to aske WHY WHY WHY & never move on to addressing what IS, then you will remain stuck. That's where I am-stuck. I can't let go of the fact that old H is gone & this new stranger has taken his place.

I think you are in the same place. It just IS, SB. Like "lost" said you can't rationalize something irrational--it just can't be done. We will drive ourselves crazy.

Somehow you and I and many others here need to channel our energy to positive outlets. I know I spend way too much time thinking about H & what he's doing and why and where's he at w OW. It drives me crazy!

Hold my hand through this, Sweet! We can do this together!!

[AnotherStander]

It is so hard to surrender the idea that he never felt love from me in all these years

He did, he's just spinning history right now. Try not to let it get to you. It's upsetting, but you've got to remember that he's in a fog.

but yet feels love from OW in just 9 months since he has met her... and really only 4 months since they have been exclusive.

I know what I'm going to tell you is hard to do, but you've got to do it for your own welfare. You've got to quit dwelling on H and OW and turn the focus on yourself. You can analyze their R to death and you will never understand it. It will never make sense. It's no indication of you as a person, you need to recognize your own value and appreciate that you have worth and are important, then build on that. You can't let your H's actions tear your self-esteem down any lower. It's time to rebuild yourself and make yourself better, more attractive, more centered, happier and healthier. This is what DB'ing is all about, make yourself into the W only a fool would leave.

Thats not to say there werent things I could have changed..of course

Don't ignore those things. DB'ing is a discovery process. Discover what you did wrong, and do 180's on those things.

H was broken for many years with his depression and I always tried to help in any way I could. Mainly, by allowing him to have a life of his own that involved LOTS of golfing. That was always an issue..how much spent golfing.

What do you mean "that was always an issue"? I'm getting the impression that while you may have allowed him to go golfing, that perhaps it was always a sore spot with you. Did you express that to him? Even though you let him go, if you complained to him about it then he probably didn't see it as a positive thing.

I dont believe that I stopped meeting his needs completely in our marriage, but life did get in the way, as it does when you are married 15 years and have 2 kids.

Well it goes both ways, I'm sure he quit meeting your needs as well. But don't just sweep it under the rug, acknowledge it. You quit meeting each other's needs and the M suffered. It happens, it happened to me and my W too.

We got comfy and then when lift became overwhelming...he ran.

It seems like you're harboring a lot of resentment towards H. It's understandable after what you've gone through, but I mention it for two reasons. One is you've got to forgive him and get past it before you can fully detach. Two is you've got to set it aside if you have any hope of evaluating your own faults and doing 180's on them. As long as you blame H you won't be able to effectively search yourself.

I dont know that I could have changed anything

Of course you could have. None of us is perfect. We all could have done better. So could our spouses.

He always looked at me with such love and then BAM....done. He doesnt love me anymore...he doesnt want to be in our marriage...He doesnt want to work on anything...when family was his # 1 thing always.

This is the case for many if not most of us here. A seemingly loving spouse suddenly decides they're done, and to us it seems like it was overnight although to them it took months or even years to get there.

I find it hard to move on and have a newborn and pretend that all is well and that we are some happy family.

All will be well again, with or without your H. When you realize the truth in that then you're on the path to detachment.

I hope that one day he will look back and see what he did and maybe realize that he made the biggest mistake of his life.

Here's another clue about detachment, when you finally are able to detach you will want your H to be happy, whatever that means for him. Because you will realize that your kids will be spending time with him, and the happier his home is then the better adjusted your kids will be to going back and forth. If you can become that person, the person whose PMA is not dependent on whether your H is there or not, then you've detached. And THEN he might start regretting his choices.

[sandycay]

SB ~ It's so hard to read your angst on here and I totally get it. We can say all things but it's so hard to understand it your position.

NO, my EXH is not with his soulmate. In a nutshell, he became impatient and agitated at home...blamed it on work and boss..... had an affair.....left....continue affair with OW for 6 months....then came home for 18 months....left again.

BUT this has nothing to do with the OW, your H was broken when you got him and because he didn't deal with it....it's come back to bite him in the butt.

You can't save him...since my D my EXH has had MANY women....he would often get the kids for his every so often dinner dad visitation and bring them. WEIRD but my kids are SMART and they knew it was weird. He just got out of relationship where there were many break up (because of trust issues!) and who knows what else. I don't if it's him or them because personally as a woman when I went on Match....if I met a man that had no relationship with his kids....I ran.

Frankly, at this point I am glad that he mostly brings women when he sees the kids....he has to behave! It used to irk me but my kids told me it's better because at least the women know how to relate to them. But let that woman get up and go to the bathroom at dinner...and the REAL man steps out...hissing negative crap and so on.

Stop and seriously stop analyzing their relationship. He doesn't love himself so he doesn't love anyone in the right way.

I wish I could somehow channel this all to you...as I am sure people said the same things to me....and I still anguished and it was a big waste of time. Once, I never spoke of OW (after that advice) I really put her on the back burner because seriously ....it's not about her. It's all him and his broken and you can't fix him.

[Sweetbriar]

I need advice badly. I received an email from H tonight. This email sounds very nice and sane to me and it is making me wonder if he has other motives. He knows that baby is coming in 7 weeks and all of the sudden he is interested in him. Im just would like to know how I should proceed with responding.

Before I post the email..I would like to say that all the things in this email are, of course, not true and his idea of what is happening. I am NOT keeping him from his kids, nor am I angry when they see him. I will say that I do not want him to be at the sonogram or the birth, because I do NOT feel comfy with those arrangements. That is true. I am concerned that he is all of the sudden interested in the baby.

Here is the email and I have a few questions at the end about it...

SB-
He is not even born yet, but I can't stop worrying about my relationship with my son.

I don't think you realize how important it is for me but for him too, to have a full and loving relationship with his father. I know you are hurting and upset and angry with me. I totally get and understand that. We must, however, make sacrifices for the good of our children and this is one that you HAVE to make. I acknowledge that I said some awful things about him when we first found out you were pregnant. I regret them tremendously and feel guilty all the time for having said them. When I said them, however, things were extremely difficult and I said them out of fear.

I want desperately to be involved in all aspects of his birth (appointments, sonograms and actual birth). I realize that it is probably awkward and difficult but it is not something that we can ignore. I think we need to have a discussion, probably face to face, where we can discuss this and come to some sort of a compromise. I am his parent too and just because you are pregnant with him doesn't give you the right to alienate me or exclude me from everything. I was supposed to be the one who bought his crib and dresser. Why, if you knew that, would you make other arrangements?

What's become of us is sad. I worry about you all the time and only want the best for you. I doubt that this notion is reciprocated and that's sad. You say you care about me and love me, but you purposely try to hurt me through our kids? D14 told me that you forbade them from seeing me this weekend? Why? Do you think that's in the children's best interest? To keep them from a father who adores them and wants desperately to see them? I know that you get upset with them when they spend time or want to spend time with me and I think that's the ultimate in mistreatment. It was the fundamental problem in our marriage and it continues. People are either on your team or they're not... and if they're not, they better watch out! Guess what Jenn? I am on your team. I love you and want to take care of you all.

There are no shortage of victims in this. I think that we all are. I've made choices and you've made choices. When you choose to treat someone a certain way, you are choosing not only that, but the consequences that this brings. That being said, our marriage was NOT all bad. I fondly remember so much of our life together. You are a great person and I know that your strength will land you back on your feet. You have so much to offer and I know you will make someone happy.

In the meantime, we must always make decisions with our children's best interests in mind. I think they have been unnecessarily involved in too much. As a result, this situation has been more traumatic for them than it ever should have been. I know they're upset with me and say angry things about me. I understand that, but I wonder if you scold them or tell them that their dad loves them when they do. I hope you're not in some way condoning or even encouraging this type of behavior. They ALL need to love and respect their dad!

In closing... about the baby. I haven't been involved in anything... any of the decisions (name being a big one). You can say I'm just the "sperm donor", but guess what? Not only am I financing all of it, but I am the type of man who WANTS to be involved. I'm not the scumbag that you make me out to be.

Please consider letting me come to the sonogram on Monday. Please also consider having a discussion about what our compromise and arrangement might look like. I know it's going to be hard for you but we ALL will be better for having done it.

H

Now, as far as the comment about forbidding the kids to see him this weekend...I am away for the weekend and my mom is there with them. It is MY weekend to be with them and I told them that if dad does want to see you he will have to wait until next weekend. ( I usually let them go whenever, regardless of whose weekend...but this weekend I didnt want my mom to have to deal with any arrangements). Also, as far as not including him in any decisions...he has not asked until now. It was only last month that he asked to come to an appt and I orginally said maybe but changed my mind after all the nasty texts I received last week.

Im very confused. I find myself, once again, thinking in my mind that maybe it was my fault. BUT..I know it wasnt. The comment about mistreatment baffles me. If he EVER felt that way he never told me???

It makes me so sad to hear him say that I am a good person, he loves me, and that will make someone else very happy one day. I must say, as crazy as he has acted..this email sounded very sane to me. Although, he never says anything about what he has done other than he "made some choices".

I need help...what do you think about this email? How should I respond? I dont want to alienate him from his kids, but they make their own choices and as far as the baby, I feel like he gave up his rights to the birth and the naming, etc when he walked out on me. For 32 weeks he has not cared and now all of the sudden he takes and interest? I cannot help but to think this note was to sweet talk me because the birth is near???

Am I just being mean thinking that? I need real advice....I can handle it if I am wrong in thinking this way.

Why, unless he really means it, would he basically say that he wants me to move on? Why if Im a great person and he has fond memories is he still choosing to leave me forever? Also, is it normal for a WAS to be nice sometimes and write nice things?

One more thing..we dont need to meet face to face because we already have an agreement. The kids see him once a week and every other weekend if they want to see him. The decisions on the baby will be made after he is born. Why do we need to talk about it at all? He is actively seeing OW and living another life. I even wonder if she helped him compose this email?

Im soooo confused....all help is welcome.

SB

[Soul.Searching]

I think it's your choice if you want him in the room for the ultrasound. Can you possibly get photos and video of it for him though?

As for the birth, well it's a tough enough time without having someone in the room that will cause you more stress, discomfort. It's unfortunate for him but you need to look after you at a time like that.

As for the baby once his born, he doesn't expect to take him does he?
Are you going to breast feed? I would think he could come and visit the baby at your house via arrangement. At least for the first six months or so.

I'm sorry your going through all this. It really is tough.

[scaredsilly]

"You say you care about me and love me, but you purposely try to hurt me through our kids?"

i think, if you keep him from participating in this baby (appts., birth), he will see it as more of the same and that you haven't changed.

he said the fundamental problem in your marriage was how you treated people you felt were not on your "team".

do you want him to feel differently about you or are you finished trying to save your M?