House for sale. So Sad. Family Breaking Up (pt 2)

[FloydMan]

Thanks BD,
W read 5 LL’s last New Year's and I read it a few weeks before that in Dec 2011. The MC then had us do the assessment on-line. I did it immediately and I was like most men...Physical Touch and Words of Affirmation. W kept putting it off doing it and putting it off. Then she did it in April and would not tell me and all she said is that she was two as well and she was surprised but refused to share the results and seemed disappointed it was not what she thought. I suspect one is WoA as well because she certainly was wounded by the words I chose after the A was found out. She certainly does not like to be criticized and takes it personally. Not bjust with me but anyone, boss, parents sisters etc etc. She will not even take constructive criticism and is great at turning around blame. She always claimed prior to reading the book and doing the assessment it was Quality Time and Acts of Service so I worked so hard for so long in these areas but to no avail. Clearly I disappointed her in some area but if she can't help me know what she wants, what can I do? Go full throttle on all 5?
I am more modest and she has criticized it as lacking confidence. Weeks before she quit on this M, she grabbed me in the morning as I was leaving for work and told me she loved me ... looking at me square in the eye. I should not have questioned it but I asked "do you? Do you really?'. She said "yes, I love you. I really do". I left with a smile. The next day I was recognized at work and she sent me an email that read: " I know you are uncomfortable with compliments, but I am proud of you. You have the smarts, the looks and the humour". She was reaching out, but was it genuine? It was literally 3 weeks later she hated me as I still struggled with the A and trust and she was done. What I really wanted to hear all along is a look in the eye and promise she would never, ever do that again and actions that support that. I never got that in the 7 months dealing with it on my own.
RLA, I read your earlier post and I can tell you an A is more overwhelming that the betrayer will ever realize. I am not saying this or what I am about to say as laying blame or guilt, but rather try to give you insight from this side of the fence, as your posts have given me insight too. Yes, your H does need that assurance otherwise it will fail…..we were well warned in MC. My W ignored the advice of the 2 MC’s, the books After the Affair and 5LL’s, along with other publication by the more prominent people on this topic. Read Divorce Remedy chapter on Infidelity again too. They all say the same thing and the prescribed route. These are the best minds in the world on this topic and to ignore that advice and the advice of people that have been through it just for sake of pride and stubbornness in my view a little selfish in light of what I was put through. Sorry but I am being kindly blunt. It may not be selfish, but sure comes across that way. You cannot blame the betrayed spouse for the A because your needs weren’t met or any other reason. Was his needs met? Was mine? Don’t know about your H, but mine weren’t. I dropped the ball in other areas and worked hard to correct them as prescribed. Both spouses are responsible for the dysfunction of the M leading to the A. But the Betrayer needs to own this and make it right as much as possible. Don’t look at it as “the land of guilt and self-flaggellation” as you say. Look at it as prescribed medication. My W has been on Blood Pressure meds for 5 years and takes them religiously because the doctor says she needs them for her health. Well, 2 doctors and the best in the business prescribe this method of healing so why is it brushed off. Sometimes the medicine is bad tasting, but needed. It would not last forever, but required for trust to be built.
It seems you and your H are both waiting for the other to prove who is more committed. Well, is DB not teaching us to take our own action and put it in place and not worry about the other person and what they do? Take action. I am glad you are going to MC. Really take heed of the healing advice on an A. It is not about blaming the A or the reason for it, but it does need to be addressed and dealt with. Actions speak louder than words of promise. I going to post this part on your thread in case you don’t see it here too. Just trying to help kiddo as it seems you are not ready to throw in the towel contrary to what you say you are doing. Clearly your H is not done with his actions contrary to his words. It is tough, hard and hurting on both of you.

[FloydMan]

17 days since talking to W. has my 180/LRT ticked her off more? Is it coming across as mean? I am too afraid to approach her on anything. I give off the impression I don't care and don't look at her or say anything and she does the same. We do split chores and deal with kids without speaking. Just do our thing and make notes on the calendar. We eat at the table for dinner often and talk and look at the kids but nit each other across the table. Last night I was joking with the kids and she finished and got up, put her plate away and went to her room and closed the door to work without saying a word to the kids all night. this often is the scene. The tension you can feel though I feel I have less these days. Just anxious about kids and legal. Wish this weren't the course. Would rather just make up. She cannot let go of the anger and bitterness.

[labug]

So what can "I" do to influence or what impact can I have on her to not have fear of losing face?

Much of the time you seem to think and talk about her in very negative terms and I get that, she's hurt you terribly but you want to save the marriage. You can't simultaneously dislike and judge someone and try to build a R.

You've also mentioned several times how your Ds don't like this or that about what she's doing. You don't know that they aren't going to her with things they don't like about you.

All the negativity may not be obvious on the surface but it will show in your actions and the way you communicate.

Stop the judgments, figure out your boundaries, set them and move forward with your life. Continuing to obsess about what she's done wrong only keeps you stuck.

I have to remind myself of this often:
“Carefully watch your thoughts, for they become your words. Manage and watch your words, for they will become your actions. Consider and judge your actions, for they have become your habits. Acknowledge and watch your habits, for they shall become your values. Understand and embrace your values, for they become your destiny.

[FloydMan]

That is good, in your face criticism and advice. You are right. I will take heed and do the best I can. I do vent here because it feels safe but I need to change the attitude. I am angry no doubt. That clouds my ability to know what to do, like the question I asked. Okay, I am dumb....is the answer in there somewhere? Be nice and kind and show I like her?
Not sure what the kids say about me to her. Interesting. I don't think I have done or said anything that is hurtful. Ya never know how they see it right?

[labug]

I know we all come here to vent but at some point you have to face that anger and let it go. I'm not saying ignore your anger or suppress it but acknowledge it and deal with it. Anger is a primitive response to a threat, it gives us the needed energy to fight a saber-toothed tiger. But we don't have to do that too often in modern society.

What emotion is underlying your anger? Is it fear?

If so, think about those fears, how scary are they really? Is it a saber-toothed tiger? Often we hold onto the anger because we don't want to face our fears and we don't dig any deeper. Having your family break-up is a great loss but you will still be alive, you Ds will still be alive, you'll have a roof over your heads, food on your table, etc.

Being angry all the time means you are never really in control of yourself. Not a good place to be in this situation.

And resentments build.

I think the answer is here: Stop the judgments, treat her as you would want to be treated, figure out your boundaries, set them and move forward with your life. Be the man only a fool would leave.

And you're not dumb.

[mamabird]

I definitely get the resentment thing. It's almost impossible to let go of. I find that it's easier not to feel so resentful when the cause of your resentment isn't in your face 100% of the time. Take for example, my ex boss - a living nightmare. I quit my job in May and only now am I really starting to let that go. Of course, I never have to see her again and you will have to deal with your W forever. Just saying that it was easier to let go as I moved away from it and filled my life with more positive things (and this of course).

So maybe it will naturally start to lessen as you get distance from her. I find that it is very hard for me to let go, especially when the other person isn't playing ball. If she were being nice, you might have an easier time with it.

Someone suggested on Hopefulinga's thread writing down your resentments and burning them. Maybe that would work for you.

[FloydMan]

Thanks Bug.
No, I don't think it's fear. I have been on my own before. I know I can survive. I have been through a lot health wise and survived and can make a good income.
I think it is the hurt. Deep hurt of the betrayal. Not just of the A but everything. Promises to make it work and not give up. Promises literally days before she pulled the plug. This will sound victim like but essentially i feel used. Financially and materially and especially emotionally. I poured everything I had into this family for years. I did nothing for myself and that was okay but now for what? Spent little on myself and spoiled everyone else. Her irresponsibility with finances and co-parenting have angered me. Now the litigating path she has taken. We agreed to 50/50 and that all changed once L was retained and wanting support too. The ruthlessness of her behaviour. The disdain she has for me does not make sense...at least from where I sit. I honestly believe that definitely I am not perfect but not I have never been cruel, mean, abusive, unfaithful, etc etc. yet, it is all my fault apparently.
I tried treating as I would like to be treated for so, so long until November and I started this 180/LRT thing so maybe it does come across as anger you say it will show if it is there. I honestly and truly do not get her anger and resentment and that in itself angers me I suppose. I am angry that W will not let it go of her anger but I cannot control that. She does not want me to be nice or do her favours. I guess I am angry too for being right, or at least being so prophetic that she would not deal with herself and it was all about me and I was out through the ringer. I am angry at the selfishness. Wow...I could go on but even that vent drained me. Geez you'd think I was the WAS justifying.
So, what do you mean figure out my boundaries? Know what is too nice or pursuing?
I just want us to be nice, get along and have fun but not sure if I can if the result is D. How is that for sounding conditional? Pathetic eh? I just don't believe it is the right path and the resentments will never go away. I wanted out after the A but saw the light. That the M needed fixing and was sold on that. Buyer beware I guess.

[FloydMan]

Yep, maybe that is the fear element right there....I will have to deal with her forever. Maybe she wants me to be pi**ed off. She does not want to get along. Is that her fear?
I have noticed I am more angry that we are more distanced. I have not spoken to her since Dec 28. But same house dynamic is hard. Unfortunately it will be a few months more. Legal crap too.
RLA, you always note that you feel punished. I gotta say, I feel the same....I feel punished. But the shoes are on the other foot. Weird eh? Though I know that I said harsh things about the A. I was hurt. Things I did not mean even. She felt punished I am sure now in hindsight.

[FloydMan]

Ding! Sometimes a lightbulb goes on when you least expect it. My W has been pi**ed that I had not looked after myself for quite a while....A couple of years. Had some serious health issues 11 years ago and 4 surgeries in 8 years for a couple things. After all was done I still did not take care of myself having that invincible feeling again. No excuse but no time for myself. I had bad habits health wise. I can hear her now wondering 'how could he look after me and the kids if he does not look after himself?' In fact maybe she said that in a rant last year. She would always be on me about looking after myself and always concerned how i looked and dressed. I think i took it like she was putting me down. Picking my clothes, straightening ties, hair, popping zits, tugging nose and ear hair. i did not like the mothering part as i did not get that from my mother at all. I keep very good hygiene and she loves that about me but everything else has to be perfect. She almost lost me 12 years ago, it was that bad and she went through hell while I spent months in the hospital. I was incapacitated for a while. She was scared and still helped me, changed bedpans, was on the doctors, helped nurses all the while dealing with 1st daughter who was not even 3 at the time along with her own busy job.
She is right! I did look after myself properly after I got back on my feet. I worked like a fiend and provided very well but had some bad habits, poor eating choices and was stressed. I Stopped playing sports (hockey and baseball) because of health and injury. I coached but did not exercise anymore. I lost confidence in myself as i was no longer athletic and lost that outlet. I let my mind and my body go. not obese but a few pounds too heavy and generally not the same. I am fit again now but it is amazing that this just hit me a few minutes ago as I was out having a smoke....which I started in the spring this year after 25 years of not smoking. I have been enjoying/relying on the pathetically pacifying effect through this stressful time but wtf am I doing????? She hates smoking and what it does. She has not said anything except once on Oct and once in Aug that I stunk. Nothing about health. Just another thing she thinks i won't change and change consistently. For years she was on me to look after myself. Could she have given up on me because I gave up on myself? Not looking after myself and not happy in my job even though I made great money? I was not happy. She has nursed me back to health a couple times. Could I have been so selfish not to be there for her to feel secure. The attraction of a self-confident active and fit man who was professional was letting himself go with bad choices and habits was lost. Intimacy was lost through the stress and business of life. She sacrificed for me. I always told her I loved her for that but did not back it up with actions. I only got defensive when I perceived nagging. She was giving me love by telling me what she needed...someone she did not have to care for and too responsibility for their own health. Enough on her plate with her sick, parents now. I feel great now, and am trim. just not the muscles anymore but not bad. i get compliments. Smoking ... I will be quitting...it is a bad choice and bad example for the kids though I keep,it away from them but they know. She sees too much risk and work in me. I think this is a big thing. Not all but a big thing.

[mamabird]

Great, that is a positive change. My H has started working out more and I do notice it. He was always about 20 lbs overweight with a gut and never took great care of himself. Of course, once when he did one of those early morning bootcamps, I wasn't exactly rah rah cheerleader about it, and I should have been, I guess.

I will say, men who don't take care of themselves are not attractive. My H has a few minor health problems that could escalate if he doesn't watch it. I'm done mothering him so it's all on him now, but I even went so far as to book him a doctor's appt recently for his foot that was bothering him. Your W probably wants you to take some responsibility for your own health... I think you nailed that one FM. Just don't make declarations and then not follow through... my H declared one time that he was going to do a triathlon and then completely flaked out... most recently (as I said on my thread), he said he's giving up dessert but managed to eat most of a cheesecake over the span of a few days. Stick to it, very important!!