she's a wonderful person but...

[adinva]

Show me a perfectly good natured marriage forum....


I agree with Bond, this is a crucible for learning skills.

[banjopicker]

Have you asked her to tell you when and how you can best comfort her?

Good idea. But I'm trying not to talk to her about this stuff to give her the space she wants. Wouldn't this count as violating that space?


NO, imo, it's not violating her space to ASK HER, HOW you can best comfort her.
She may say "back off til further notice" and then, you'll at least know. And she'll know you cared/respected her enough to ask. NO more mind reading.

And don't use the "give her space" as an excuse to withdraw and do nothing...

So I asked her. Got a few one syllable replies, might've even been grunts. Not terribly specific, awful close to leaving it up to mind reading. So I continue with what I've been doing: more chores, more pecks, more compliments, more little notes and presents. And lots of space: no verbal prodding, no "us" time, leave her alone to do her thing, limited non-sexual touching, no sexual advances of any sort.

Although I also realize certain kindnesses can trigger grief bouts. Not all of that is unhealthy though.

But I need to let her decide when she wants these triggers pulled, right?


Whoah....You misunderstand what I mean when I say "triggers". The "triggers" are not buttons you want to push. You don't "let her decide when"...NOR do you seek them out.

you MAY find or discover triggers...don't make them worse

AND don't take the bouts of grief OR how she handles it, personally.

No, I'm talking about the triggers I've already stumbled across - don't hug me or have intimate conversations or anything that makes me feel too close to you or I'll break down.

Express your love and support in as many ways possible and she'll know. Don't hope to get noticed or it'll be a tactical choice, not a gift of love. Make sense?

Okay, yeah, good thought. It's made me think. Seems like there's more here. For example, if love is a decision,


FYI, love IS a decision. It is a choice. And It's not just a noun either; Love is a verb. Love takes action. We must choose to love on a daily basis, even when we don't feel like it AND OR even when our spouses don't act so lovable...even when we don' t think they "Deserve" it, and we remind ourselves that sometimes WE don't "deserve loving behavior" but we sure want/need/& expect it, don't we?

Amen. One of them ideals that are hard to live up to 100% of the time, but are still worthy of striving for.

[color:#000099][u]so, you're working on figuring out her love languages and that is how you are working on YOU?

Well....yeah! Lack of attention, sensitivity, awareness of her needs - doesn't that count as a character flaw to work on? I'm not saying that's the end of the road, that's just what I've zeroed in on for now.

I'll have to finish my reply later.

[banjopicker]

Seems like we used to have more arguments, and they largely disappeared as we settled into our patterns.

Do you mean you think communicated "better" before, even if it was by fighting? OR BECAUSE you fought?

I suppose both. Someone would bring a topic up in anger, and we'd end up having a conversation that gradually softens to where we're okay at the end.

The amount of conflict isn't as relevant as how you resolve it.

Fighting is alright IF you fight fair, and don't damage each other

BUT FIGHTING IS ONLY FINE, IF YOU ACTUALLY RESOLVE SOMETHING....not the endlessly repetitive "Same thing we fought about last week/month" type...

Yeah, that's probably why they became infrequent - same old issue or argument.

Bottom line is most couples need tools for this^^^ thing called "conflict resolution. Get those tools! Get them from books,

Any suggestions?

Lose the scorecard. Please see how you wrote the above. You want to hold onto it, you want to compare them...I'm telling you it's NOT productive...

It's not that I want to hold on to it. I want to share some things, hurts, missing pieces with her that I never have before. Things I've been learning about in this recent process of examining our relationship and studying relationships in general. I'd like her to do the same. I think we can both learn from our past, from our scorecards, so we can figure out how to do things differently in future. But I must confess there is a part of me that just wants to get in some good shots. Really have to keep that in check.

In more recent years, the launching point for the martyr routine has been times when I've felt an idea of mine has been rejected (e.g., family outing or activity; parenting action).

^^^^ sounds like a wounded ego - reacting...?? You would not be the first man to react that way. We can all act like children at times. This isn't an easy task or experience anyhow and we're all human, just learning as we go.

This is a recurring issue for me, perhaps one of those things for me to work on. That's usually where we've left it when we do talk about it. But I don't have my head wrapped around it. I don't know why I do it or how to change it. I'll try to explore it more in a separate post. I don't have time right now.

[banjopicker]

Night before last, lights off, sleep moments away, W thanks me for all the things I took care of during her mom's crisis. Short, sweet statement, not a conversation. I slept good that night.

Funeral yesterday, lots of crying exhausted W. She didn't look for any comfort from me. W's sister sought out her husband's embrace several times after the guests had left. W stayed away from me. Kept up my mantra - not rejection, it's grieving space. But again, lights off, sleep coming soon, she opened up about how she's feeling, moving into a different grief phase from relief to loss, the day. Slept well, just not long enough.

[25yearsmlc]

Night before last, lights off, sleep moments away, W thanks me for all the things I took care of during her mom's crisis. Short, sweet statement, not a conversation. I slept good that night.

She communicated her gratitude. While you say it was "not a conversation" it is not clear to me if that's b/c you didn't say a word, or what. But she gave thanks to you. This is a good thing, right? I mean, are you upset by it or happy?

Funeral yesterday, lots of crying exhausted W. She didn't look for any comfort from me.

SIGH...why is this about you? Why can't she be sad HER way?

W's sister sought out her husband's embrace several times after the guests had left. W stayed away from me. Kept up my mantra - not rejection, it's grieving space.

Man, you are hard on her. Just Leave her be. Stop comparing. Lose the scorecard. Stop making this about you and how she treats YOU and how YOU Feel, come on...

I say don't even go there, for AT LEAST 90 days. I mean really a good 6 months but THIS WEEK at the funeral you are judging her and how you feel and if she grabs your hand and blah blah blah??

This must be a nightmare for her.


But again, lights off, sleep coming soon, she opened up about how she's feeling, moving into a different grief phase from relief to loss, the day.

that's great! This is called "intimacy"...it's not just about sex for women (or men I hope).

Slept well, just not long enough.

Why did you start the sentence with "But again"....as if to say she didn't want sex, AGAIN...

of course she didn't. She just buried her mother and you are staring at her with your "needs" and the ONLY WAY she can show you she cares is sex??

You won't admit it but it sure looks that way. She told you important grateful things AND shared her emotions too....but it's not enough for you?

Go back and work on YOUR stuff for now. I mean, this is terribly unfair to her, imo.

just my .02

[banjopicker]

Night before last, lights off, sleep moments away, W thanks me for all the things I took care of during her mom's crisis. Short, sweet statement, not a conversation. I slept good that night.

She communicated her gratitude. While you say it was "not a conversation" it is not clear to me if that's b/c you didn't say a word, or what. But she gave thanks to you. This is a good thing, right? I mean, are you upset by it or happy?

I'm happy about it. She made about a five word statement, I made a two word acknowledgement, that was it. "Not a conversation" just meant that it was brief. "I slept good" was too cryptic - it meant that I was very pleased, reassured, content. See, I don't need much, and it ain't just about sex. But I do need to write clearer.

Funeral yesterday, lots of crying exhausted W. She didn't look for any comfort from me.

SIGH...why is this about you? Why can't she be sad HER way?

She is! I'm carefully responding to her cues! I'm not making demands of her. I'm not accusing her of anything. I'm not pouting in the corner. I'm relating some what's going through my head to an anonymous message board in an effort to sort it out for myself. Don't you ever have a struggle between the devil on one shoulder and the angel on the other, even though the angel wins out most of the time? What do you expect me to do? Just shut down emotionally for months on end until she's ready to move on? Do you really think that's healthy?

W's sister sought out her husband's embrace several times after the guests had left. W stayed away from me. Kept up my mantra - not rejection, it's grieving space.

Man, you are hard on her. Just Leave her be. Stop comparing. Lose the scorecard. Stop making this about you and how she treats YOU and how YOU Feel, come on...

I say don't even go there, for AT LEAST 90 days. I mean really a good 6 months but THIS WEEK at the funeral you are judging her and how you feel and if she grabs your hand and blah blah blah??

This must be a nightmare for her.

See above.

But again, lights off, sleep coming soon, she opened up about how she's feeling, moving into a different grief phase from relief to loss, the day.

that's great! This is called "intimacy"...it's not just about sex for women (or men I hope).

Slept well, just not long enough.

Why did you start the sentence with "But again"....as if to say she didn't want sex, AGAIN...

of course she didn't. She just buried her mother and you are staring at her with your "needs" and the ONLY WAY she can show you she cares is sex??

You won't admit it but it sure looks that way. She told you important grateful things AND shared her emotions too....but it's not enough for you?

Yes, this was some of that verbal intimacy I've said has been missing. "But again" was drawing a parallel to the night before when she opened up briefly. "Slept well" was also a too cryptic way of saying I was greatly pleased by this bit of intimate conversation that she initiated (Remember, I'm not supposed to be prodding her).

I appreciate you challenging the clarity of my writing, but you're injecting some things in my sitch that aren't there.

[GH31]

Why did you start the sentence with "But again"....as if to say she didn't want sex, AGAIN...

of course she didn't. She just buried her mother and you are staring at her with your "needs" and the ONLY WAY she can show you she cares is sex??

You won't admit it but it sure looks that way. She told you important grateful things AND shared her emotions too....but it's not enough for you?

Yes, this was some of that verbal intimacy I've said has been missing. "But again" was drawing a parallel to the night before when she opened up briefly. "Slept well" was also a too cryptic way of saying I was greatly pleased by this bit of intimate conversation that she initiated (Remember, I'm not supposed to be prodding her).

I appreciate you challenging the clarity of my writing, but you're injecting some things in my sitch that aren't there.

Come on 25yearsmlc, cut the poor fella some slack. We're not all heartless sex hounds constantly on the hunt for our next bit of action, especially when we know our wives are experiencing very raw and extreme grief.

If that were the case we would all be spending $150 down at the local brothel rather than buying coaching sessions with DivorceBusting so we can learn to be better husbands.

[25yearsmlc]

GH

Banjo did a fine articulate job of clarifying his comments. No need for you to twist the meaning of my words or mind read with me. I'm not a man hater.