Same Old Wagon Wheel Part 7

[ThisDayForward]

The other trap I keep getting myself into is pursuing her when she starts being nice to me. We started having more physical touch with each other. She would trip me. Put her arm on me. She even let me rub her back (she has something going on still here)

Then of course I backslide and try to take it to the next level.

I'm getting caught in that pursue/distance trap or lack of detachment when she makes positives slides.

How do you wait for her to make the move when she is giving signs of it. So frustrating I slip up. I SEE it and recognize it.

[ThisDayForward]

interesting support from my Ala non contact:

"Way to go, great recovery and communication on your part ! When they no longer can control us, they often seek recovery even more when they can't push our buttons. They don't like it when they can't control us or use the old regular reaction button pushing that use to get us to give them their way !"

"Don't think of arrogance as a flaw if you see this in yourself, these are our ineffective behaviors. You may not have this at all, it is just her perception or way to control. Step 4 helps us keep the good and stop using the behaviors that don't serve us as adults."

[ThisDayForward]

Interesting. Communication with W continues. We set a weekly dinner schedule. I am responsible for dinners on Monday and Wednesday. She has Tue/Thur. Order out on Fridays. I also talked to her about grocery shopping and possibly a house cleaning schedule. She was open to it

[MrBond]

She will always start referencing the past until you put a stop to it. Just tell her that you already discussed that and she keeps bringing it up. Tell her again that it was during a period when you didn't trust her and she didn't do anything to help rebuild that trust.

So just to clarify, you only validated her "feeling" the way she did. NOT the actual actions.

[25yearsmlc]

Thx UF. Not sure I can attend EE in Feb, I might have to wait til May because of work schedule. Which is a big bummer but i think this 12 step program will be very good for me in the mean time.

1) go to EE in February. Aside from plans I made based on YOUR choices, it's ridiculous to see this pattern take control over you again.

you are AGAIN paralyzing yourself and trying to stop any change b/c you think-

somehow,

that where you are now is better than making progress b/c after all, she's still at home. You think if you gain clarity and peace, THEN she'll leave you????

I am shaking my head that you of all people would let your fears take over again.

GO TO EE and stop freaking out.

I said "trust the process" and I've gone and my marriage wasn't even in crisis at the time. But like you - I'm a child of an alcoholic and EE was like 3 years of therapy in one long weekend.

GO TO EE...

seriously...stop the inertia of your life b/c it's how you slid into being
where you are.

[25yearsmlc]

25 can you talk a little bit more about EE?

I hope you'll go to their website...To sum up, "Essential Experience" is a personal growth workshop, which I attended. I've attended several types of workshops, but this one is by far the best.

It is the safest place for growth, and the most supportive environment you will ever find. It's productive and positive.

Seems a little odd or intimidating when you start getting into.

"odd"??? Wasn't the meeting of Adult Children of Alcholics a bit odd too? And as for being intimidating...not sure why you feel that way --- except it means change.

Are you afraid your wife's description of you is true or valid?

Deep down do you fear that you are a selfish arrogant narcissist? The gift of EE is that it Will show you if that is true and if it's not, you'll feel at peace

and if it is true OR if part of it is, EE will show you how to change.

Grads open up house to stay at for out of towners.

Stay at a hotel if you prefer. Most people like saving the money by staying at other's homes, but no one will force you to do that.

Some folks are uncomfortable with it, I know I was. But I needed the experience of asking for support from others, and getting it. That was new for me. Now, I'd never pay for a hotel.

But it's all up to you.

Is this associated with any religious group .

No it is not.

The workshop hours are long which is good but intimidating.

(PON, again with the word "intimidating"??)...

Anyhow, the hours are long FOR a reason, which you'll come to see in time. And, you get your money's worth.


I've paid my deposit but still have extreme inertia about it.

Well, You do have extreme inertia. It comes from fear. But there's nothing anyone else can say or do to make you go or to fix your inertia.

The predictable result of inertia, is that Things tend to waste away, rot, fade, fall, die or end...

We must be the agents of change in our lives. You must be the agent of change in your life. Be the catalyst for a new way of living.

Especially explaining where I'm going to my W, which I know is pathetic but it is how I'm feeling

First, Your wife was fine with you going to ACOA. You did not need her permission of course, b/c those meetings are to help YOUR LIFE Improve...and, not that it matters, but her reaction was positive.

Your description of EE was fine to say ("workshop for communication, clarity, action plan for making transitions", etc)

but a part of me wants you to OWN THIS and not care what she thinks. This is your life - and you only get one. This is not a dress rehearsal...you are taking charge of your life. I think that's attractive.

BTW, There are a ton of ACOAs at EE. FWIW, I cannot imagine her having a negative reaction -but then, I don't know what it is you are hoping for from her??

This workshop is a life changer. If you want to change your life, you'll go.

If you prefer staying stuck, then don't go.

Yet It is so Ironic....

Your wife says "you can't change"! You insist you can.

So, what does backing out of EE show her about that?

I mean, she's trying to figure out if she can stay with you as you are now, which is hard for her. But she says you won't change. So, Is she right to believe you will not change?

Last but not least,

your best chance of saving your marriage, if not the only chance -

is going to something intensive, life changing, & supportive, like EE...

(it really is the most supportive, safe place you will ever go.)

Making the deep types of changes needed in one long weekend, requires intense support and guidance, which EE gives...

***(BTW - Follow up support groups meet later on. The support groups and follow up are all free, and they help you stay on track)***

Hey, I'm not guaranteeing a reconciliation with her,

but I don't see you shifting your paradigm nearly enough or fast enough on your own, for her to stay.

Your inertia will remain/regain, and without any support to keep you from sliding back into your old self...I fear you'll lose her for good.

I suggested EE b/c I think so highly of it. I asked you to "trust the process" b/c it IS a process. (It's hardest at the beginning, just like overcoming inertia)

HOWEVER - PON, I was ripe for changing my life. I felt stuck by some choices I had made. I was ready to own my choices, to exercise new choice and change things at work, or in my relationships, and how I saw myself and how I felt about who I was, etc.

You may prefer being where you are b/c you are so used to it, it's familiar. (A very typical ACOA response.)

You can judge or negate EE all you want & you can look for negatives in it,

& All I can do is say "PON, here's a gift life is offering you. It's called EE. I put a lot into it and I got a lot out of, it.

EE helped me live a much happier, full life, with inner peace for the first time in my life.

It also helped my h do the same. He's an MD who is not into these types of things. Soooo,

Why did my h go to EE, (since he's not the type?(

He said he went, "B/C of the changes" he saw in me. The value of EE lies in the changes people see in you, when you return...

**Imagine what would happen in your sitch - if you returned from Philly a truly changed man,

and your wife liked what she saw?

------

(Now...

Imagine you return from Philly, liking what YOU saw in you...)

In short,

Essential Experience is a life changing experience.

If you want to change your life, you'll go. If you want to stay stuck, you won't.

[ThisDayForward]

Mr. B. To recap. I did not apologize. For example if she said something I didn't agree with, I told her I do not agree with this or for some reason we are way off or not on the same page. aka, not helping around the house.

Naracist comment. I told her that I thought her counselor was out of line making a statement like this without ever meeting me or talking with me. I also let her know I do not feel that is me.

So when I say validate. What I am saying to my W is typically "I understand you feel that way" "those are your feelings" etc.

In this instance I only agreed that I did not go out with my friends enough, NOT that I do not have friends.

-25 Thanks for jumping back in. I gave my phone # to Tina for you to use. I am available today to about 3pm EST otherwise not available to talk until Monday 9-3 pm EST. If you feel like you could call I could call you back on my dime. I did email the head guy but he was in Mexico on vacation.

25 I am at new job and I am trying to arrange the time off. My plan if everything goes right is I will let my W know I plan on attending Monday night after my ACOA meeting.

Thanks for you support and your passion about EE. I believe it is something I need and I believe ACOA and EE have lots of the same goals.

On a side note had more communication with W this am. Basically asked her if she could let me know if something I say or do bothers her from this point forward if she could let me know. She typically holds things in (because in the past she couldn't talk to me without escalation). I said that this would help both of us. That it isn't healthy for either of us to hold in things that bother us. That I will make mistakes but if I don't know if something is bothering you how can we grow or correct them.

Even though she said "I haven't been able to do this for the past 10 years" it went over positive. I said "I understand in the past we haven't been able to talk but going forward I would like you feel you can talk to me about anything on your mind." I said "I would do the same for you"

Conversation ended. I went to work.

One thing I am paranoid about is I forget to delete some email threads between me and my ACOA sponsor. It was talking about my interactions with my W. Although the emails were not terrible they did discuss my interactions with my W yesterday. Im paranoid because I leave my phone wide open because I have nothing to hide but reading back through these emails I could see her being upset with me discussing our conversations and/or interactions. Some of the emails referenced "control" and not reacting to her button pushing etc..I was exhausted yesterday and forgot to delete them. It is tough because sometimes I need support and phone calls are not always available. Anyways i would hope if my W read them and they bothered her she could approach me. Although I feel she might not because she would have to tell me she was snooping on my phone

[ThisDayForward]

Part 8 Here:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2313552&#Post2313552