Oh, and yes, I guess you make a good point about his reacting to my complements. I was thinking about how he responds to my complaints. So, yes, I acknowledge that he liked that. So how do I interpret his response? Is it natural to immediately want repayment? I complemented him, so then I should give him sex? The concept is foreign to me.
I guess I just need to write that off as another difference in us. How to manage it is the question.
Well, you answered the question I originally posed (you did not misunderstand)... do you think that your complaints bother him. You answered no. I question whether that's true because he was clearly responding to the compliments. A person doesn't respond to one without responding to the other, I don't think. When my H receives criticism, he normally shuts down. I never realized that before, I took it as ignoring me. But he obviously was drawing up inside of himself for "protection." He always responded well to compliments. Unfortunately, I think others take advantage of him as they realized that. But that's a whole other issue.
He clearly took your compliments as some sort of signal that you wanted affection. He's missed the connection part. That's a frequent issue with couples, isn't it? Some have sex in order to get the connection, some need the connection before the sex. Mostly, I think each person in the couple differs on this. They've figured out a compromise. We haven't. Sigh.
Yes, I agree with you. I don't think I had looked at it that way. Perhaps I was focusing on the intention behind what I said and the following result. If I complimented him, I wasn't looking for anything more from him, as he had already done something to warrant a compliment. Yet that resulted in him wanting sex. (And BTW, it did not result in him doing more of what I had complimented him on.) On the other hand, when I complain about something, I clearly want him to respond. I want him to do/not do something. I tell him what that is, yet he doesn't accommodate. And he shuts down too, as you indicated your H does. So that was my basis for saying that my complaints don't bother him, because he doesn't address the issue in order to eliminate the complaint, but seems to just ignore it instead.
Recently, he sought advice from his counselor on how to eliminate the discussions (anything resembling a complaint.) The timing of that corresponded to some research I was doing which indicated that men do not take criticism well at all, that it actually causes bio-chemical changes in them. This is 100% true for H. So I quit talking to him. He's happy as a lark now. Of course nothing has improved on my side because he still hasn't addressed the things I had complaints about. He just doesn't have to hear about it anymore. And I don't know how to work with this.
I previously used the analogy of the oil light coming on in the car. It's a "complaint" coming from the car. Few people would ignore it and not put more oil in asap. Yet in M, if a W complains, men just close up and go lick their wounds and then wonder why their M fails. I don't get it.
I'm curious, you mentioned that the two of you are like roommates. What is your H's position on things? He came back. Do you know why?
I’m not sure I knew there was a biological reaction but that makes a lot of sense to me and gives me further insight as to why my H felt he needed to leave in the first place. I was overly controlling. I was not perfect, he was not perfect, but the appearance of perfection was EXTREMLY important to me. I was worth something if I appeared to the outside world to have it all together. I was worth nothing if there was something out of place. And he was a victim of my mentality. I was highly critical. I’m not saying that this is the case, just sort of bouncing things off of you. But CV, what if the answer is that he will never respond? What if there is nothing in your power or in the power of the therapist to change it? What then?
Yes, he came back. He forced his way in hahahahaha. There has always been a lot of talk, I love you, I’m in love with you, I want you, I’m sorry I left, I didn’t cheat (he did but will deny it to his deathbed), I will do anything you ask.
Thing is? It’s sort of toxic. Because “anything I ask” lasts until I calm down again. And, as with anyone who has been with you for 15 years, he knows my weaknesses. He tugs at my heart strings and I cave like a house of cards. I bend to his will, slowly die inside (because I’ve allowed this for myself) and he’s happy because I’m still here. He was smart about this. I’m a homebody. He banks on my inability to leave my home. He had no leverage if he was out of the house and he knew I couldn’t legally stop him from coming back. I’ve had a therapist for the last half of this mess. He’s been pretty adamant that I did better when we were separated.
I don’t think my motivations to stay have been entirely clear. I know I love him, I know that I am scared financially, I know that I am scared of being alone (although I am very very lonely anyway), I know that there has always been hope that I could fix the drinking issue, rational or not, I know I've felt somewhat responsible for the drinking issue, I know that somehow it soothed my hurt a bit that he came back, I know I’m very embarrassed about the state of affairs with my marriage, I know that I feel God awful about wanting to leave as he is miserable about it and there are probably a whole bunch more reasons.
We live in TN but that is due to job relocation. We still have a house in CT too that we rent out. We are under water as many are. The other day when we were discussing my leaving he said he wanted to give the house back to the bank. I insisted that we could not do that. That I can’t leave and have my credit rating ruined as that would make things difficult for me. It was only later I realized that was his point.
I stopped seeing the therapist when he explained the importance to my well being that I go. I have tried to limit contact with the family as they have escalated their pleas that I go. I come here because I want someone to tell me that I should stay and what better place to hear that? I mean it’s much more complicated inside, I suppose, but it’s heart wrenching. I have hit the wall with all of this. I don’t want to eat, sleep, go anywhere… I don’t even want to get out of bed. I haven't been able to string together more than an hour of not crying. I have an image of what my H used to be. He’s gone. And I can’t deal with it. I know what my answer is, but I just am such a coward to do what is right for me. And, I guess, I still question if I even know what is right for me.
I understand your comments about being a perfectionist. I'm far from what anyone would consider perfect, yet I'm still considered very capable, moreso than H in many areas. H would tell you I'm a perfectionist, but I believe that's simply because he has such low standards. He'll argue and defend doing a sloppy job on something, then belittle himself later because he doesn't like how it looks when he's done. I think perhaps he has a very low self-esteem, though you'd never know it talking to him. He'll even interpret my different opinion as criticism. "I like red." "Really? I like blue." And with that I've just criticized him.
You really sound stuck. Not in your situation, but just in your head. A lot of analysis-paralysis going on. You obviously don't like any of your options, not that you should because they don't sound fun. But in spite of being painful, they are doable.
I'm curious that you're cutting off the people that care for you that are encouraging you to get out. If it was just one BFF that you felt didn't have a good handle on the sitch, I could completely understand that. But family too? Your therapist?
Can you envision your future at all? Not 6 months from now, but 5 years from now? If you consider your M, do you see your H being any better 5 years from now? Is he at least on that road? His issues aren't minor, and they're not something YOU can fix.
Alternatively, if you consider leaving, what can YOU do in 5 years? At least in that scenario, you would have control of the situation, which I think is something sorely lacking in your M, and a big part of what has you in your massive funk. You feel stuck from all angles. And your H isn't helping, as he sounds like he knows he has you where he wants you.
The thing is, like when you were separated before, it isn't a guarantee that you'll be done forever if you step away from your M. I know it's not what your H wants, because he's obviously benefiting greatly by your presence. But that is not him caring for YOU. It's also possible that the most caring thing you can do for your H is to walk away and stop enabling him. Again, it's not my area of experience to say, but something for you to consider anyway.
You said you came here hoping that someone would tell you that you should stay. It almost sounds like someone who is debating whether to leave their M for their lover. But your sitch is much more complicated than that. There is not another person. Your question is more about do you save your M or save yourself. What relief would it give you if someone were to tell you to stay?
OMG. That is very scary. There had been someone else I was back and forth with before H came home. He's moved on, though. I think sometimes that is what makes it difficult. How much of my life am I willing to forgo because of this situation? And why do I continue to make this choice?
But it's all still significant. I mean what am I going to do? Continue to pass up on my life because of my H? Why have I been so unable to break the bond with him? I'm well aware of what I'm being told that I enable my H. But, I can't help to feel like he enables me in some twisted way too. Like 2 drug addicts (only I don't do drugs and have no drinking problem), but that is what it is like. I'm not sure I know what healthy is anymore.
I don't know, CV, it sounds more and more to me that your H is a bit more reliant on your opinion than you know. And somehow I think that is why he lies. Please, please, please know I'm not making excuses for him. But you obviously want this figured out so I'm throwing darts. So if he lies in order to avoid criticism, how does one resolve that? I have no earthly clue. He's not psychotic. So there's a reason. What are your thoughts on that?
Do you remember how you felt when H was gone? Is there enough appeal to that to want to give it a go again? I remember in your prior posts you spending a lot of time at the gym, having lost weight and being in shape, even just the time to take your mind off of H/M and focus on you. Do you remember that person? Not that it was all rainbows and happiness, but at least you were taking steps. You sounded more in-touch than you do now.
I completely get what you're saying about mutual enabling. I think I've heard that referred to as co-dependency? (again, for what little I know.) You are both, in a way, unhealthy for each other, I think. Does your H see any of it? Does he want to make anything better? Besides the promises, I mean, but actual effort?
Okay, so what would it mean if H is reliant on my opinion? He's very defensive of his position. He doesn't like when I disagree, even if he comes around to my way of thinking. The one thing I can think of that supports your thought is that he has a big problem with boundaries, was diagnosed years ago. He doesn't recognize that I'm a separate person, that I'm entitled to feel and think differently than him, doesn't recognize where one person ends and the other person begins. One of the things I've mentioned previously as a problem for me is that when we go out to dinner, he just helps himself to whatever is on my plate. Very annoying for me. It also shows up in the issues regarding his kids. He just doesn't understand why I don't feel about them the same way he does. But I don't, I'm not him. I'm not even their mother.
So if what you say is true, then what? His dependency on my opinion means I'm not entitled to have my own? What do *I* do about that? How do *I* manage the problems that causes in our R?
I was pretty dedicated to working out and classes until a couple of weeks ago. So I stuck with that. Got very into kickboxing and stuff. I don't know. After I stopped crying after 6 months, I guess I was healing. I was getting stronger and seeing glimpses of who I was before the depression and separation. I did actively hide what was going on from people. I had a series of text messages from old friends giving their condolences regarding the separation. I largely ignored them. I didn't want to admit failure, I suppose. But I was getting stronger.
His promises have been empty across the board. Everything he said would be fixed, wasn't. He promised numerous times to stop drinking and he would for a day, but pick it back up again. There's been a explosion after Christmas with my family. They have made it clear to him that they want me gone. So, this is much different than before. Anyway, he has stopped drinking. Or so I thought... He's been sneaking drinks. And there's been him consistently texting with someone through the night and hiding his computer and stuff. Who knows what that is about but given his cheating and my ignorance in missing the signs of lying in the past? I just don't trust him. That's damage I will bring to all R's, unfortunately.
Oh, I'm not sure that bending to his will completely would resolve a thing. Look at me. That's been my approach... working perfectly... lol. But is there compromise? I'm also interested in what you mean about his children and "what you feel about them." Are we referring to the fact that you don't feel you should be supporting them or are we talking something a bit more emotional? Also, is there compromise in other areas? Eating off your plate, for instance... did that always annoy you or have you found it annoys you more because he's trampled on every other boundary? I've found myself doing that. Even the small things annoy the crap out of me now. So that's why I'm asking.
Can you get back into your exercise? I hear it's a really good thing for depression. I know it helps me. Of course, it first requires getting out of bed to do the exercise. I'm wondering if he was seeing the changes in you, and that's why he came back home, because he was afraid he was going to lose you.
Didn't I read that you had a prior M? I could have picked that up somewhere else. If I'm wrong, just ignore this. But if it's true, what is the difference do you think between the first M ending and your hesitancy to leave this one?
Okay, so your H is not working on improving the M and just providing lip service. Do you know what his motivation is for staying? Could you remove that motivation? The texting is interesting. I guess it's possible that he could be making the decision for you some time in the near future. I mean he was the one that left the first time, right? Are you doing anything to protect yourself if he does? Like watching finances closely? Making sure that he's not already ruining your credit rating? I'm suggesting that just because you're stuck and not able to decide what to do doesn't mean he's having the same struggle.
LOL! Yeah, I'm pretty sure my bending my will to his wouldn't work. Quite humorous to even consider that, knowing myself as I do. Not even sure it would be possible. In regards to his kids, it's a combination. I would do anything for my S12. He's my S. I wouldn't do "anything" for his kids. Heck, I wouldn't do anything for my niece and nephew. Some things, sure, but within limits. I can't be expected to treat someone else's kids like my own, to care for them like my own. Maybe some people can do that, I can't. At the same time, he's willing to put up with their disrespect, but I'm not. I'm not sure if it's driven by his guilt from his D or what, but I'm not there. I thought that a good compromise was he does what he needs to do, and I check out. That's still a problem for him. Oh, and although he expects me to treat them as if they're my children, he does not expect them to treat me as their mother. (He has a bunch of double-standards like this.)
There is definitely an increase in the degree of annoyance of the little things, partly because I've asked him to stop a hundred times, partly because I ask virtually nothing of him anymore but he still can't seem to accommodate even the little things. (To be fair, the eating off my plate thing has been resolved. But it's just sad to me that it was such a monumental task. It's so discouraging to think that's what's necessary to accomplish anything in our R.)
I felt better when he wanted me. That somehow validated me.
LIS
Bang!!! I think you just answered a question of mine. I'm finding that these answers to my questions, should be quite obvious. I'm not sure why I have such a hard time figuring them out. Sorry to go off topic CV, that just hit home to me.
M: 29, H: 31 D: 9 S: 8 T: 13 Y M: 9 Y ILYBIDKIILWY 12/09/2012 ~~~~ Worrying does not empty tomorrow of its troubles. ~~~ it Emptys today of its strengths
I'm wondering if he was seeing the changes in you, and that's why he came back home, because he was afraid he was going to lose you.