Total despair 2

[swoop]

Do you really think that I am setting myself back to zero, by simply asking her, "hey do you want to go for breakfast with our D"? Would something as insurmountable as that send her running? I mean could it be so simple as I have not spent enough time being consitent with my detaching?

[sandi2]

Sounds simple. Yet you have not been able to resist.

[swoop]

So I take it that is a yes? Is that literally what I have to do, Sandi?

My W was just here to pick up our D. It is absolutely crushing me to have her gone for a week. I really had a hard time fighting back the tears. My W could see it in my face. I wasn't able to be upbeat or cheery with her, just cordial and somewhat cold I guess......this is without a doubt the hardest thing I have had to go through in my life.

[swoop]

Just journaling here, but if anyone has some input, I am all ears.

I am starting to get some pressure from my family, to just divorce and move on. Everyone in my family feels I am playing the fool and this will never turn around. Not having that support is absoultely crushing me. It is even worse, considering how we are in business together and very close. It makes my situation extremely difficult.

I am at my wits end. The last couple days have involved more tears than I ever recall shedding. I don't know what to do anymore. I am so distraught. On one hand I feel that my best chance of reconciling is to continue to DB. On the other hand, I feel that I should just sit my W down and have a, "lay out the facts and absolutes" conversation regarding our marriage. Basically, give her one last opertunity to even consider trying. I wouldn't be asking her to move back in or hold my hand today, just that she would be open to moving forward. I am just so torn......

[Spartan]

I am starting to get some pressure from my family, to just divorce and move on. Everyone in my family feels I am playing the fool and this will never turn around. Not having that support is absolutely crushing me.

I was hearing the same things from family and friends and I basically shut down all talk with them on my sitch. They don't understand DBing at all, all they see is me hurting and they want it to stop. In their mind my W is causing me hurt so their obvious reaction is to get D and move on. I get all my support from here and my IC.

On one hand I feel that my best chance of reconciling is to continue to DB.

Your best chance is to detach as much as possible. I'm struggling with it right now but we have to force ourselves to start detaching and remember it's a long process. Right now I'm being friendly distant which means being cordial but not initiating conversations and not calling or texting her. That is all she sees, on these boards I'm all over the place but I'm staying consistent at home. If we weren't living in same house I would likely be dim to dark.

On the other hand, I feel that I should just sit my W down and have a, "lay out the facts and absolutes" conversation regarding our marriage. Basically, give her one last opportunity to even consider trying. I wouldn't be asking her to move back in or hold my hand today, just that she would be open to moving forward.

Why would you do this? You know what the answer will be, she's told you many times. Will hearing it again change your mind on DBing? If yes then I'm not sure your DBing for the right reason. Remember DBing is for you to improve yourself and help you be happy later on with or without your W.

[swoop]

Thanks, Spartan.

Just another low point. I took a deep breath, regathered myself and will be moving forward. I set up my next phone coaching session with Chuck. Hopefully, he can shed some light on his advice to be "friends" with my W. I won't initiate any contact with her until then.

I did however need to contacct her this morning, regarding our D. It was done via a few text messages. I am starting to see some behavioral changes. Our D is 6 years old. This week while I had her she had 2 accidents (poopy pants), which is very out of the ordinary. She also had some very strong mood swings in a short period of time. She went from content, to absolutely kicking and screaing upset, back to being very happy all within a 30 minute time period. While she was upset, I consoled her and asked what was bothering her. She said, "I am just sad and I don't know why". I told her she could talk to me about anything and that Mommy and Daddy love her very much. Again, she said she was "sad". I asked her if it was Mommy and Daddy making her sad, and of course she said yes. That is tough on the emotions, let me tell you.

I text my W this morning to see if she is noticing anything. She said D was very well behaved, didn't eat much and did ask about Mommy and Daddy getting back together. It just crushes me. My wifes mother has been married 5 times, and she is currently working towards her own divorce. Therefore, my wife has a convoluted view towards it. She thinks it is better for children if the parents are happy. She feels that there is a trickle down effect, if the parents are happy the kids will be happy too. She feels that taking children out of a home where there is verbal conflict from time to time is better than keeping them in an otherwise stable home with two loving parents. "Kids are resilient" she says, "Daughter will be fine after divorce". I can't look at it so easily. I know there will be wounds, and I know wounds leave scars.

[sandi2]

I haven't seen ANY results, other than when I offered up the "friend" card. She reacted well to that.

B/c she thought you were finally coming around.

I guess the only real reaction I can get is to do something stupid like get into a conflict with her that makes her mad, other than that, not much changes in her attitude toward me.

This is not rational thinking! You are saying you'd rather her be mad at you, just to get a reaction? Getting her mad won't get her closer to you. That is not DBing. Besides, it's only been a little over three months. That's not really very long.

She is cold, she is distant and she is staying the course. I know she isn't as happy with her new life as she was originally, but she hasn't given me the slightest clue that she is second guessing her decision.

So stop looking for clues. That is one of your problems.

I'm just so confused on how to engage her or not engage her.

Don't engage her.

am still torn on this whole detaching thing. It is probably because I can't get into the mindset of my wife right now. I just keep thinking about how I would respond to things, and that obviously is much different.

First of all, I think it may impossible for you to have the mindset of a WAW. If men knew the mindset of women....they could rule the world! They never will. And even if you could see yourself as a WAS, it wouldn't be the thoughts & feelings of a woman. So, why don't you stop putting all your energy into this type of fretting?

I am working on myself and making progress every day.

How? Do you mean progress toward R with her, or do you mean progression toward becoming the best man possible? The obvious thing I've seen from this side of the screen, is you have worked on trying to change her mind. Has anyone close to you noticed you've become a better person? That's hard to achieve in three-four months.

I need a paint by numbers approach.

That's the mentality of wanting to know the answer before you ask, like I mentioned before. If you "knew" the M would be R then you would work for it. But without knowing for sure....you don't want to take a chance?

Everyone in my family feels I am playing the fool and this will never turn around.

Did they discourage you about the MR before she dropped the bomb? That part the person said on FB about just walk away from what doesn't make you happy? That is often what we hear from family & friends.

On one hand I feel that my best chance of reconciling is to continue to DB. On the other hand, I feel that I should just sit my W down and have a, "lay out the facts and absolutes" conversation regarding our marriage. Basically, give her one last opertunity to even consider trying.

Please don't do that. No sit-down talks thinking you're giving her one last chance. I promise, she won't take it. It just does not work that way.

Listen, before you give her the final "talk", won't you try what we've suggested? If you don't understand detaching, then drop the rope. Move forward with your life. Just don't file for a D.

Yes, talk to Chuck before doing anything.

[AnotherStander]

I don't know, Sandi. I mean I haven't seen ANY results, other than when I offered up the "friend" card.

Your sitch is still relatively young (I know it doesn't seem that way though), I didn't see any signs at all from W until about 6 months after BD. I thought I had seen some before then, but looking back I think they were flukes. The real baby steps started about a month ago. So hang in there, it's really not that unusual to see no baby steps at all for months and months after BD.

Do you really think that I am setting myself back to zero, by simply asking her, "hey do you want to go for breakfast with our D"? Would something as insurmountable as that send her running? I mean could it be so simple as I have not spent enough time being consitent with my detaching?

Per DR it's not unacceptable to ask her along to something now and then, but the way to pose it is "I'm taking D to breakfast, you're welcome to join us if you wish." The point you're making is that you are going with or without her. It's not a date, she can go or she can not go, you don't care. The problem from what I'm reading in your post is that you DO care, and you need to get to the point where you seriously don't. So that means (as Sandi said) you need to quit asking until you're more detached. When you are detached enough you really won't care, I know I don't. I take the kids out to eat on the weekends and sometimes I'll tell W she can join us if she wants, sometimes she does and sometimes she doesn't. If she says 'no' then I shrug and off we go. No biggie.

I am starting to get some pressure from my family, to just divorce and move on. Everyone in my family feels I am playing the fool and this will never turn around. Not having that support is absoultely crushing me. It is even worse, considering how we are in business together and very close. It makes my situation extremely difficult.

I totally agree with Spartan's response on this. Personally I had to cut all communications with my family for about a month to drive home the point that I was done talking to them about it. When I reestablished communications I made sure we talked about anything but my sitch.

On the other hand, I feel that I should just sit my W down and have a, "lay out the facts and absolutes" conversation regarding our marriage.

I can 100% guarantee you that this will NOT go well. You have got to fight this urge. This is one of those things that is counterintuitive. It feels like the right thing to do, but it isn't!! The best you can hope for is "I'm still confused", the worst is "I'm done and ready to proceed with D". This is forcing her hand, and it is poor timing because she hasn't had the time and space she needs to work things through yet.

[swoop]

Excellent advice. I wish I would have had this in mind when SHE CALLED me. I spoke with her regarding our daughters behavior. Everything was going well, and stupid me, I said, "would you be willing to meet me for a coffee this weekend". I asked, knowing that I would have spoke with Chuck and had a game plan in place on how to go about the friendship card that was played. I actually cringed as I said it, because of course that is pursuing. Well, things got much worse. She wanted to know exactly why I wanted to have coffee. I tried to close the conversation, but she was persistent in knowing why I wanted to see her. Then, she went into it on her own, expressing that she was not open to talking about our marriage, that she was not open to working on it, that she had told me over and over again that she was done. I honestly tried my best to shut it down, but it just blew up in my face...... I am starting to feel like I am simply destined for failure.

From this point, she sent me a couple texts, I replied as openly and honestly as I could. What other choice did I have? From here, I guess I am back at square one. So now, I detach and start over in hopes of doing better this time?????

In regards to me working on myself, I have been taking better care of myself, eating healthier, dressing better. I have accepted God into my life and been going to church. I have been much better on being less critical and more polite with everyone. I know I am just getting started. It will obviously be a life long effort of improvement, if I do it right. But, I am definitely on my way. I have a couple friends that have noticed.

[sandi2]

I feel like reaching through this screen and sewing your mouth shut.