Sorry I took off last night but was exhausted. I started going back to the beginning with your posts. You stated that you wanted to save your M desperately. Do you still feel that way? Is that what you are still hoping for?
No, I don't still feel that way. I've changed such that I don't sit around pining for what seems impossible to achieve. I haven't slammed the door, I just don't fret over it like I used to.
The thing is (and why I consider myself a WAS) I could save my M. I could give H the sex he wants and follow him around while he did all of his interests, cater to his children and his family, throw my income into a joint checking account again so he could spend it all on toys or his kids again. I could, but I don't want to. BTDT. It's very unfulfilling.
I realized when I first came here that I was swimming against the tide. I wanted to change my H. I still do. I can change a ton about me, like the examples above, but it doesn't fix anything in the M -- for me. Oh it would definitely change the dynamics, but it wouldn't be anymore fulfilling than it used to be. If one the problems in my M is H's lying, how do I change that from my side? Like your H's drinking. What can YOU do on your side of the R to address his drinking problem?
Eh, WAS/LBS ... it's semantics, I get that. But for me, it's a journey trying to figure out what is going on inside. It amazes me how much I lied to myself (I think I still do). I mean I could give 2 completely different stories on the same day. And I'm not sure I always realized that. And I really needed to finally get down to why that was. What was it that I didn't want to face? So perhaps you and I are on different paths. But I am still intrigued.
CV, people come here for varying reasons and I've seen those reasons transform through time (like you). So what's yours now do you think?
I mean you are here to:
1) Save your marriage 2) Help to end the marriage 3) Companionship with people who may understand a bit better
So what do you think it is for you? I hear what you are saying about your H, I swear. I'm not sure yet exactly how to address it unless I understand your goal.
LIS, you ask a very good question, one that I've been asking myself lately. You mentioned the tough love, and I'm all for it if it's actually producing something. But I'm not finding any value in this thread anymore, and it's run way off its original goal of sharing the struggles and successes of WAS's. I'm not getting any answers to my specific questions regarding specific problems and what I can do to improve my M for me anyway. In addition, continuing to focus on the problems in my M takes me away from the peace of acceptance.
So I think the answer has become that there really isn't a reason anymore. There's a number of sitch's I've been following for a while that I'll continue to follow, but I'm not sure I see a need for my own thread. I like your approach of just lurking.
Your statements intrigue me, LIS. Are you saying that your statements distorted the reality of something that happened? Or simply that you had two completely different attitudes? (eg. you want to save the M vs. you want to D.)
LOL, I hear you. There's a time and place for tough love, I think. Sometimes, I think it has opposite it's intended effect. See, to me? You sound frustrated and a bit confused yourself and maybe you just need to talk through things. But, I'm frustrated and confused so maybe I'm just projecting, who knows? I think when we get into a frustrated state, tough love pushes us back further. I'm just looking for a chat.
You want to talk specifics... like about your H's lying? Well, let's discuss that then. Can you stop it? I don't know. There's a reason for his lying, I believe. It doesn't sound like he's a sociopath, so there's something. You have mentioned that there are definitely issues that you both disagree on... especially his parenting style as it relates to his older children. Well, he lies because he doesn't want conflict with you and still wants to please his children. You know this, you said it. So how do you stop it? You let him do what he wants without judgment or attacking. I haven't gotten through all of your posts yet, but it seems there's no compromise on this matter. So, you bend to how he wants to do things OR you don't and he lies. I don't see another way at the moment UNLESS he changes his mind to parent more like you. Or you change your mind to parent more like him.
It's sort of like my H's drinking issue isn't it? I mean I could stay and live with all the dysfunction that comes with an alcoholic and bend to his will, he can quit drinking and work on himself, or I can live and give myself a chance for a life that I find more fulfilling. Doesn't really make my H a bad person... it means that he and I have differing goals. (But it [censored] because my heart hurts). So then the answer for me comes down to goals for my M. Do I want to save it? If so, I stick with him until bottom hits. Do I want limbo? Am I ok with the dysfunction in order to maintain the life I have now? And I'm just here to support me as time passes. Or am I looking for help to go? If so, then I make strides to do that and then we're not really dealing with my H's drinking issues. For informational purposes, I've done all of these things and I'm very conflicted.
I say I want to save it because I love him. I say I want to stay because he's going to kill himself drinking and I need to protect him. I say that I want to go because I'm dying inside. I say that I am ok with the limbo. I say that I'm not ok with the limbo. Get a ticker because you are going to need one to keep up on this.
I don't think your statements are completely different stories. I think they're all true at the same time. None of them are comfortable so you simply don't want to stay there for long. But I completely get it. It's like me saying I love my H and hate him at the same time.
Okay, so to take it back one step further, what is your definition of "saving your M?" Or even better yet, what is your definition of a M? If what you have doesn't meet your definition, then can you really be saving your M anyway? You might be saving your H or your finances or your commitment to "for better or for worse" or something else, but it's not your M if it doesn't even resemble a M. Accuray had a great definition of what a healthy M should look like. I'm going to have to grab it next time I come across it. In any case, I don't have that. Far from it. I doubt that you do either.
My H's lying isn't limited to his kids. He also lied about the EA he was having with his college sweetheart, hiding emails so I wouldn't find out about it. So I don't judge him? I let him pursue it? Another example is that he lied about letting his 15yo unlicensed daughter drive my expensive sports car. So I should have just let him? Of course, he never even asked me, just did it and told her and her sister not to tell me. In most cases, H lies because he knows I won't agree with what he's doing. He's very much invested in having his cake and eating it too, actually doesn't understand why he can't do both. The big issue for me is that honesty is my number 1 love language, and H knew that the second year into our H, so H lying to me has really done a number on our R.
LIS, it sounds to me like your biggest conflict is that you seem to feel responsible for your H's drinking, that you think he'll kill himself if you're not there. It may take him bottoming out before he does something about it, but I don't think that means you need to bottom out with him. Are you enabling him? Is your love for him preventing him from going the tough road he needs to go? I'm going to go read up on your sitch. I'm curious how the R turned around from him leaving, and how you've switched roles.
Let me tell you a little bit more about myself so you believe me that I'm not looking to shrink you... just really want a chat.
My H left almost 2 and a half years ago initially. He had a gf 10 years my junior (love that). We were both executives in the same company (gf worked their too). Last year I took a buyout and left. He's still there. His alcohol issues have worsened over the years and after our separation, it got dramatically worse. He started making strides to come home about a year ago. He finally came home by just moving back in. There was no talk... I came home from a trip and his stuff was here and there was nothing I could legally do about it. I was pi$$ed to say the least. He'd occasionally show signs of trying and fix his issues but usually nothing that lasted a few days. I threaten divorce on a weekly basis when it gets too much, then he stops offending behavior and begs and pleads for me to stay, I cave, he goes back to the offending behavior. Now, this is not to say I don't have my own issues I had to work on because boy, did I and do I.
I have prided myself on being a tough girl. Born and raised in NY and scraping my way up the ladder at work, I needed to be tough. Couldn't show any vulnerability. So what did I do? I come on here and basically lie. Never once did I mention to anyone during my first stay here that my H was an alcoholic. Why? A couple of things: 1) I didn't want anyone to tell me what I already knew, unless he got help, I couldn't fix it and 2) I was way too smart to get involved with an alcoholic.
I got off the boards here fairly quick. It's debatable as to why.
But I maintained friendships with friends from here. I lied to them too. I would like to say that I just left things out, but let's just call a spade, a spade. I didn't mention that he came home against my will. Why? Embarrassing. I didn't mention that my pride had taken a huge hit. I mean I dated when he was gone, but I still felt worthless. I felt better when he wanted me. That somehow validated me. I don't really mention that I'm scared to death. Tough girls aren't scared. And I acted like I was making the choice to be in the limbo I was in. I was the one who didn't want to fix it. I was the one refusing him. But he continued to drink. He continued to act like everything was fine. He was content to be in another bedroom. He was content about not talking. So, really who was controlling things? Christmas was a nightmare with my family as I hid a lot from them too. Unfortunately, his drinking had to deteriorated to a point where he was unable to hide the issues and the people who once supported me in standing for my marriage got very upset and have taken a completely opposite stance.
So, CV? I would say that I'm pretty messed up right now and am definitely not here to preach to you. Really just want to lend an ear.
Ahhhhh yes... See, what you are telling me is what I didn't want to hear. I've avoided this conversation for 2 1/2 years. I buried my head in the sand. I can't save it with him drinking. And I can't fix his drinking. And that hurts me more than I ever wanted to admit.
