Wow 25 thank you so much for that! It was not too long, I hung on every word...Today was a really tough day though, d11 kept calling me crying saying "Papa I don't think mom is coming back" and after I would calm her down I would say let me talk to your mother..who was also crying saying "I can't take this anymore..I can't see her hurting anymore...she just needs to move on this being in limbo is too hard for her" etc...I asked her if she wanted me to come take the kids tomorrow for a while and give her a break, she said no she would miss them too much---more crying from her..I took dbing advice and listened and did not say much...even though I don't like to see d11 suffer so much..I suggested that W go to D's thearapist and explain what is going on over there...that worries me a little bit because she sees W as a WAS and is not very pleased with W's actions...but that is one of my drawbacks is that I can be a little controlling.. I guess everyone---what are your thoughts about keeping the children in this limbo? Is it harder on them and unfair to put them through this... I want to say to W you need to ask yourself why is it that when they are here they are very happy but when they have to go over there they are very sad and count the days until they come back to me...W has been a WAW for about two years now she joined a band and spent a lot of time with the band and her friends from the band...I picked up the slack thinking she just needed space...So I put all my time energy and love into my d's..and not much into making friends and basic GAL so I have a long way to go on that realm...the only thing I did for myself was listen to a lot of TED talks and history podcasts while cooking or cleaning. I found myself telling adults that I met, weird facts about the Monguls or the amygdala; didn't always go over so well. I was jealous of W and her male friends, she has very few female friends and I am not sure why that is I think it is a control issue for her but I don't know....but when I would come home and see that such and such man had been hanging around I would get angry..I thought it inappropriate and she saw it as controlling...but I will get more into my flaws later... It is funny that you mention the military because my father was a hard charging decorated military soldier...so we moved every 3 years I long for stability in relationships, while at the same time the other half of me is wanting change...
Wow 25 thank you so much for that! It was not too long, I hung on every word...Today was a really tough day though, d11 kept calling me crying saying "Papa I don't think mom is coming back" and after I would calm her down I would say let me talk to your mother..who was also crying saying "I can't take this anymore..I can't see her hurting anymore...she just needs to move on this being in limbo is too hard for her" etc...I asked her if she wanted me to come take the kids tomorrow for a while and give her a break, she said no she would miss them too much---more crying from her..I took dbing advice and listened and did not say much...even though I don't like to see d11 suffer so much..I suggested that W go to D's thearapist and explain what is going on over there...that worries me a little bit because she sees W as a WAS and is not very pleased with W's actions. your w sounds like she IS a WAW...so what's the problem? Why aren't you two telling them together? Ask the counselor HOW to tell them, and then do so....OR see my comments below
..but that is one of my drawbacks is that I can be a little controlling.. I guess everyone---what are your thoughts about keeping the children in this limbo? I asked my MC this, and I asked my DB coach this, and they said the same thing, pretty much. As long as there is ANY hope left, don't use the word divorce. And even if you think divorce is a certainty, don't discuss it a lot too far in advance b/c THAT drags it out.
When my kids asked if we were doing to divorce, I'd say "I sure hope not, b/c I've loved your dad for a long time"...or words to that effect. Also said, "might take a time out & see how it goes".
Finally, & most importantly, I stressed what would NOT CHANGE for THEM, even if we did divorce.
If they'd remain in the same school, or neighborhood, or church, etc, THAT is what I would stress. In our case, they were NOT going to move until my oldest d graduated from high school b/c their biggest fear in terms of what they could articulate, was having to move and losing all their friends/their world.
So I'd suggest you start hammering out details for them that will STILL be there for them, mostly YOU, and their friends, etc. Even if it means you have to drive far to go get their best friends, promise you will and then keep your promises.
Make NO promises you cannot keep.
Remember not to alienate your children from their mother, which means do NOT bad mouth her even if you are furious at her.
"Parental alienation" can cost you custody in my state and all courts frown on it...a lot.
Is it harder on them and unfair to put them through this... I want to say to W you need to ask yourself why Don't bother asking her this^^^......it will backfire on you.
As my DB coach said, and IT'S TRUE, questions that begin with "WHY?" about "why are YOU doing this?" OR "HOW CAN YOU???" are all designed to get a defensive reaction from our spouse
b/c you're angry.
But making her feel defensive does NOT help you or the cause. It will escalate. Stop trying to guilt her or "wake her up". I'm telling you it won't work.
Let her feel the natural consequences of her actions but do NOT point them out
it's NOT your job to "teach her a lesson" or "show her the consequences" of her choices.
As my DB coach told me, repeatedly, "LIfe does that for them".
is it that when they are here they are very happy but when they have to go over there they are very sad and count the days until they come back to me...W has been a WAW for about two years now
then she KNOWS that it's causing them pain and it's not enough to get her to stay.
I still have not heard a word from you about HER issues with YOU, except you mention, casually, that you are controlling. That's no small issue, especially if you admit it is true.
she joined a band and spent a lot of time with the band and her friends from the band...I picked up the slack thinking she just needed space...So I put all my time energy and love into my d's..and not much into making friends and basic GAL so I have a long way to go on that realm.. So begin GAL soon! It's good for your d's to see you happy and GAL b/c it teaches them to do the same.
Model for them that THEY are resposible for their happiness like YOU are responsible for yours.
Actions speak 1000x louder than words.
.the only thing I did for myself was listen to a lot of TED talks and history podcasts while cooking or cleaning. I found myself telling adults that I met, weird facts about the Monguls or the amygdala; didn't always go over so well. ask new people about themselves...it's a Dale Carnegie tactic that works. Show genuine interest in others and they'll consider you a great conversationalist.
AND OR rent some stand up comedy films or watch some funny things. At least if you need to fill the void conversationally, you'll feel more entertaining.
Get Judy Carter's book on stand up comedy, NOT B/C you are going to do it,
but b/c it teaches you HOW to tell a joke.
Believe me, a lot of folks do NOT know how...
I was jealous of W and her male friends, she has very few female friends and I am not sure why that is I think it is a control issue for her but I don't know.... none of this ^^ ^mindreading is productive. Put a STOP sign in your mind and go elsewhere with your thoughts...
but when I would come home and see that such and such man had been hanging around I would get angry..I thought it inappropriate and she saw it as controlling...but I will get more into my flaws later... most of this^^ was actually about HER "bad behavior" and it's not necessary to dwell on right now, if ever
It is funny that you mention the military because my father was a hard charging decorated military soldier...so we moved every 3 years I long for stability in relationships, while at the same time the other half of me is wanting change...
I totally relate. Unfortunately, my h seems to get itchy feet every few years and I think that played a part in his MLC as well. Then again, it makes moving not nearly the terrifying aspect it can be for kids. (Our kids hated moving once they got into middle school. Hence their fears when divorce was even contemplated).
I did not grow up in the military. I was part of a large family, growing up in one place. I still have friends I'm actively in touch with, from elementary school.
My h has maybe 2 friends from high school who speak yearly...very different.
But that's another story.
I hope you have some plans for tonight. There are shows you can attend w/live bands or comedy (if a band isn't your idea of fun, considering your w's interests)
or if you have the girls, use east coast time to "toast" at "midnight"...maybe play games with them as long as you can....or watch some appropriate films with them....at least now days a lot of kid's films have enough humor for the parents to enjoy too.
Good luck 77 ....your life WILL be better, when you take charge of it.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Well thanks for the response..you asked about my issues in the M and what I did wrong and I would have to say it all began when W had first child...she said she went perimenopause and the sex stopped which was about for most of the time she was BF. I didn't know anything thing about this so I did what most men do in this situation get defensive. She had an EA with a guy and at first I would say to her that it bothers me that you don't talk to me about things and I am uncomfortable with this she felt controlled and I felt out of control and then the spiral of me spying on her etc...there were emails everyday and phone calls every day....I know I did not handle this well but there is nothing I can do about it now.
I always wanted W to work....and I am realizing that maybe that is not part of her MO...her boss recently broke her leg and she was complaining to me how she is going to have to work full time for the next 4 weeks! In our M I would always tell her I need to save money for my retirement...which I was finding difficult to do..This was no concern for her because her parents put a large amount of money into her retirement every year and she was careful not to make me the benificiary so that I would not have acess to it in the case of a D....that really bothered me. So needless to say there was a large struggle there--- the other reason I wanted her to work was just for self confidence etc...yes I didn't handle things well but I can't go back only forward now....I have 180 in not spying on W and saying nice things about her M friends when I can or nothing at all...Although D asked me why one of her friends has a very long pinky fingernail...we looked it up and very creepy...
My goals are to get out the next couple of weeks and try to change up my GAL...you are right the gym is kinda isolating and so is cross country skiing....it is great to get in shape but I should be out meeting other people and doing other things. I have just been sitting around waiting for my W to drop the B and that is no way to be for a free man. I told D that I might try out for a play as I did some acting in highschool...she said none of my friends dads do that, I said so all the more to do it. I feel that a lot of my anxiety is around being financially strong so even though I need to get out and GAL I also need to work on my business and get myself so that I am not so nervous about finances and that takes time as well....And that is something I read In a book recently about make yourself a set schedule for your free time. I am more of a planner more so than most and now my plans have come off the track! Thanks 25 for your advice and your hints at how to GAL..i HOPE TO POST more here on what I have done to GAL in the future!
when to give up? I don't want to be one of those people hanging on forever....and if my W serves me with papers well..I think that is when I will have to give up. I won't wait any longer...maybe I need to start thinking in these terms anyway to some it may look defeatist but to me it will help me move on and GAL.
I guess giving up would mean no longer expecting to continue with W...At this point I need to drop the rope...when W called me to tell me that she could not take it any more and needed to move on so D(11) could go through the mourning process and be happy again...as if that is all it takes to make d(11) happy again. I kept telling her to calm down ...don't make any rash desecions...I told her I would talk to d(11) and get her to back off..etc...
I don't want to be that anymore, it is too hard to constantly tip toe around her and worry that at any time she is going to drop the boom..on me..I figure time is on my side but some times I feel like it is not. I can't sit and just wait for her to tell me she wants a D or she wants to reconcile.....I am not giving up just trying to get my mind to move on.
I would suggest you stick with DB. The whole concept of it is designed to get you to the point of moving on wether with your w or not. We have to be ready for a new r no matter who it is with. Are you ready?
I understand it is difficult to balance the hope of reconciling and trying to get to the point of being ready to move on. Hopefully this will be the most difficult thing we ever go through, but all of us will get through it.
If you read and follow most of the stories of people that R, it would seem that they lived DB. It is that which got them to the point where they were happy no matter what happened. Our wives will no when we are there, and we won't have to tell them.
I also don't think it is helping you if you are expecting to continue with your w. You can always have hope, and you can believe it will happen, but be careful of expectations.
Me 37/W 32 S 5 D 4 ILYBNILWY 5/12 Sep 8/12 Starting to find myself 11/12 on
when to give up? I don't want to be one of those people hanging on forever....and if my W serves me with papers well..I think that is when I will have to give up. I won't wait any longer...maybe I need to start thinking in these terms anyway to some it may look defeatist but to me it will help me move on and GAL.
That's not giving up, it's moving on. How long it takes before you're ready to move on is up to you. For some people it's a week, others it's months, others stand for years. It's your choice and there is no shame in making that choice. Saving your marriage is a noble cause to be sure, but we have to balance that with our own personal welfare. If standing is causing us grief and making us miserable, then we have to decide how long we're willing to subject ourselves to that before moving on.
AS is right, if you are ready then your ready. I do think that DB is for life. It isn't just about your M, but about growing as a person. Something I think we should all be striving to do forever.
Me 37/W 32 S 5 D 4 ILYBNILWY 5/12 Sep 8/12 Starting to find myself 11/12 on
What are you waiting for? Start living now, that is what DB says. Do all the things that living means, other than find another love because you're not there yet. It's moving *forward* not necessarily moving *on*.
The expectations and the waiting for W to do something is what's holding you back. It sounds like you are ready to *start* DBing. That will mean you stop waiting for her and start living.
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
