Dear All, thanks for reading. I am new here, and have posted all this on the MLC forum but I have only had one reply there so am trying again on the newcomers. Moderator if this is not a good idea, please feel free to delete. I wish I didn't have to be here but appreciate the brilliant support of people that I have never (knowingly) met.
I have known my husband for 23 years and we have been married for 18. I always thought it was a perfect marriage. I adore my husband. We have irregular sex but neither of us have ever really had enormous sex drive so we were both happy with that. Although in retrospect we really have significantly reduced our intimacy since our youngest child. I have always been more keen on intimacy but with young children did not really give it much thought. He has several female friends (very few male ones), and has dinner with them or drinks. I know and like them all. Often we know them as a couple or they predate my meeting my husband. I have no problem with that. I was always considered a catch for my husband: In fact his work colleagues are constantly amazed that he managed to persuade me to marry him. I love his character, he is a fabulous husband and father, he always treated me as the centre of his world and I always thought that he would be faithful and we would grow old and happy together.
I noticed in June that my husband (52 year old senior hospital doctor) was spending much more time with his juniors, taking them out for drinks on a weekly basis. He also wanted to join facebook, started losing weight (lost about 15kg and is lighter than I have ever known him), and listening to more trendy music. I was a bit suspicious that he was having a mid life crisis and often he was more distant than usual but still very very involved with our young children (8-12). He was certainly less affectionate with me but we have had periods like that when we have both been very busy. He didn’t seem the same and I did feel excluded from his new life but he just accused me of being ridiculous when I suggested this.
In September of this year he got in a panic and wanted my phone as he had sent me a text by mistake. I pretended that I didn't know where it was, but would find it when I had finished what I was doing. I actually had my phone on me and had a look, before pretending to find it and giving it to him. The text was not incriminating at all but was to a woman I had not heard of (28 y old co-worker, junior to him and with her career in his hands). I was a little suspicious and a few weeks later looked at his telephone and discovered that he had been texting her on a daily basis about non work related issues even when we were on holiday. Not sexual at all but very affectionate and caring and asking her to please come out for a drink with him; he needed to get to know her better etc; was she upset with him? Could he lend her money? Could he help her move house? he was so pleased he had helped her get her new job etc? (he was on the interview panel). He sounded as if he was chasing her. I confronted him and he reassured me and said that it was nothing but that he would stop. He asked if he wanted me to cancel a work trip a few days later when he was going with her away for 10 days. It felt ridiculous to ask him to cancel, so I let it go ahead but it really upset me. I don't think his feelings are reciprocated to the same extent. She certainly likes him, and sent him a birthday card just before they went away " Dearest X, Happy Belated Birthday. Looking forward to having fun in ..........' (I discovered this whilst snooping in his brief case together with some CDs she had leant him). She is attractive and has a lot of friends and an exotic life style and I think he has a crush on her and really wants to spend time with her.
After I told him that I found the texts and thought they were inappropriate he said that he would stop and he certainly does not text her in the same way, or at least deletes the texts if he does. They text about work but not as affectionate. They work together and will do for the next few years. He didn't tell me but I found out that he has taken her out alone for a drink and sent her a text the next day saying what a nice evening, and great dress and could he take her someone really nice next time. (This was after I confronted him) He then planned dinner with her at a very romantic expensive restaurant but that was cancelled at the last minute.
Despite trying not to, I exploded one evening and said that I wanted an explanation of his relationship with her and I thought that he ought to introduce us and let me know if he was taking her out for drinks or dinner. This was met with silence, which I took as a 'no way'.
Throughout all this I assumed that he was having a Mid Life Crisis and that it would all blow over. I have been making a monumental effort at home and he and I text several times a day with affectionate texts. We also did have more sex which I initiated in desperation, but it was not very affectionate, and he avoided looking at my face, or looking me in the eye or talking to me, or even a cuddle afterwards and I have therefore stopped pursuing it. It just left me feeling sad and empty.
I have also realised, and I think I was becoming aware of this that he is not as kind to me as he used to be and certainly not as affectionate. Once I started to count I realised that he has given me 3 hugs in the last 4 months. One of which I asked for, one came after taking his younger co worker out for a drink and the other when we got back from a holiday and he was finally able to contact her again. I gave him a semi hug yesterday and he winced which made me decide to avoid all physical contact unless he initiates it. This resulted in us going out for a drink. We have a few silences and during the time no physical contact which is really unusual for me, but I realised that it is obviously not high on his list. He used to be very complementary and give me hugs and put his arm around me spontaneously!
I just need some advice on how to handle him. He has been so lacking in empathy and so adamant that he has done nothing wrong and that he does not want a physical relationship with anyone, including me it seems. He stills kisses me (peck) morning and evening but hardly passionate. He does complement me on my dress, or tells me that I am smart but never anything about me, just my clothes! He does have a stressful job and would like to retire and I wonder if some of this is depression. He works hard at home and is a wonderful father. He is worried about his health, is on BP medication and convinced that he is going to have a heart attack in his early 70s like his own father.
I have decided to detach and GAL but am worried that he might interpret this as normal behaviour and expect us to continue like this for ever. I really can't stay in a marriage which is so lacking in physial affection. I attract attention at work but can't bear the thought that DH does not find me attractive and is not at all interested in my new lingerie!! The strange thing is that DH does a lot for me and is otherwise very considerate and very generous with my birthdays but this no longer feels like a marriage. He also talks very positively about the future and our house renovation plans together. However, he used to love going on holiday but even that does not interest him now.
I would love to hear anyone else in this situation. I feel like an option and not a priority in my marriage. Some days are definitely better than others and I wonder if I have dreamt the whole thing, or if I should be more sympathetic, pretend nothing is wrong- which he claims is the case. I also wonder if this is a case of reduced libido, perhaps depression causing Sex Starved Marriage, but that I have only become aware of it when I found the texts to another woman. Perhaps I should be posting in the SSM forum.
All best
_________________________ Married 18 years, together 25. children 8-12
Me 49y H 52y T23 y M17 y ??EA June 2012 with younger co-worker children 8-12
Your post might be a bit long to get alot of responses...but whatever else is going on (or not going on) in your relationship, it is important for you to start doing things differently (GAL is a good start) or he could be on his way to finding someone outside of your marriage. Talking to one of Michele's coaches is the quickest and most effective way of having a plan on how to go forward immediately so that you can 'nip this in the bud' and also for the 2 of you to work on the a relationship that is fulfilling to both of you. I would be happy to talk to you further about the coaching options.
Karen, Resource Coordinator The Divorce Busting Center 303-444-7004 karen@divorcebusting.com
Give me a call if you'd like to schedule an appointment to speak with a Divorce Busting® Coach.
So sorry you find yourself here. You and your h are having the wrong conversation. Of course he says nothing is going on and what he's doing is fine. But where are your boundaries? You're realizing that your marriage is in danger because YOU are not happy in it. Your H sounds like he is emotionally investing himself outside the marriage, as mine did for many years with casual friendships that were "nothing." Fact is, what he's bringing to the marriage now is not OK with you. I hope that the coaching gives you some good ideas. Your H may have to realize that he could lose you before he starts to wake up to what he's doing.
In my marriage I tolerated a lot that I could rationalize as ok about my H's behavior, but I ignored the fact that I was deeply increasingly neglected and unhappy. I asked for counseling a few times but H said we didn't need it and he refused to consider it. I wish I had gone on my own, but it might have just ended my marriage earlier.
I wish you luck, adinva
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
I’m new here and I’ve learnt already that long posts don’t attract much response. I only got one for my post and it has been dead for 4 days now. I see lots of similarities with my story. My H also used to be affectionate and caring, but it gradually changed, most dramatically from a couple of years ago. He also has some female friends who he exchanges some text messages with. I confronted him about some of these messages sometimes. Last time when I did it is when I got ILYBNILWY speech and he said he wanted to separate. I also noticed that he was not attracted to me physically for a while. I’ve heard that he mentioned that he checked out of our marriage some time ago (my guess is about 2-3 years.) In my opinion you should try GAL and become a little mysterious. I don’t think that detachment will work. This is what I did sometimes before I got ILYBNILWY speech; I honestly think that this could create more distance between you. But, I am not an expert here and would like to hear some other opinions on this board.
M:50 H:52 S28 (my S from previous marriage) M:17 + 3 BD: 06/12 S: 06/12 - H works in another state
Thank you all for replying I am sorry that you find yourself here too. Adniva, you clarified for me, for the first time, that if I feel neglected and unhappy that something is very wrong despite his reassurances. BrightFuture I will work on the GAL and be a bit less needy which is what I mean by detachment. My H has shown no interest in seperation or divorce. He is very family orientated and the children are his world. I am currently trying to be be a wonderful wife but not hanging around to chat and not initiating anything physical. I want us to get back to relative 'normality" after my recent explosion and then I will talk to him about my feelings and suggest MC (although I can't see him agreeing).
Me 49y H 52y T23 y M17 y ??EA June 2012 with younger co-worker children 8-12
Your H's behavior is definitely not okay. His actions and attitudes are characteristic of someone having an emotional affair, although at this point it might not be reciprocated. Read Sandi's 37 rules and do your very best to stick to them. Confronting him using guilt, begging, pleading, shaming, etc will not work and will only serve to make him resent you as you are seeking to keep him away from the object of his affection.
In order to rationalize what he's doing, he needs to convince himself that you deserve it in some way so don't play the part he will try to assign you. So sorry, there is really nothing you can do to control him, only you.
Accuray
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
With the support of everyone here I am actually looking forward to the challenge ahead. I am in a much better place than I was 3 months ago. Thank you all M-2-3
Me 49y H 52y T23 y M17 y ??EA June 2012 with younger co-worker children 8-12
1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!
2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!
4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.
6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.
7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.
8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)
9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.
10. Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)
11. Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)
12. Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude. 13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.
15. When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while) so this takes patient on your behalf.
21. Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.
22. Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.
23. Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!
24. Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.
26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out (or scream and yell).
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.
28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.
29. Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30. Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he/she is hurting and scared.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.
35. Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.
36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.
37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes _________________________
Me 49y H 52y T23 y M17 y ??EA June 2012 with younger co-worker children 8-12
We have irregular sex but neither of us have ever really had enormous sex drive so we were both happy with that.
Are you sure HE was happy with that? It is amazing how often spouses assume their spouse doesn't want sex right up until they find out he or she is involved in one or more affairs. It is extremely rare that both partners have the same sex drive. Usually one feels they aren't getting enough.
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Although in retrospect we really have significantly reduced our intimacy since our youngest child.
It's very common for that to happen, and very damaging to a M.
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The text was not incriminating at all but was to a woman I had not heard of
What you describe sounds like an emotional affair which often can be as damaging as a physical affair.
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He then planned dinner with her at a very romantic expensive restaurant but that was cancelled at the last minute.
I think he's pushing to make it a physical affair.
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Despite trying not to, I exploded one evening and said that I wanted an explanation of his relationship with her and I thought that he ought to introduce us and let me know if he was taking her out for drinks or dinner. This was met with silence, which I took as a 'no way'.
It's OK to set boundaries, but if you exploded, you went about it in the wrong way. Have you asked your H to consider MC? This is a situation where a C could really help the two of you to navigate this minefield.
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Throughout all this I assumed that he was having a Mid Life Crisis and that it would all blow over.
There's no way to diagnose MLC's, so don't assume that's what it is. It's more likely that the passion and sex lacking in your M is driving him away. Regardless of which it is, it will NOT just blow over on its own. You have to take action. Read DR. Implement the strategies. Work on yourself. Make yourself the W only a fool would leave.
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I have decided to detach and GAL but am worried that he might interpret this as normal behaviour and expect us to continue like this for ever.
What you've been doing has not been working, so it's time to change the dynamics. Don't be afraid to try, that's the nature of DB'ing. Try something new and monitor the results. Give it time, don't expect results in weeks, it takes months. Be patient.
