It doesn't mean I am not still considering treatment options. I've just pretty much lost hope and go at it a little less enthusiastically or optimistically.
And you read:
Originally Posted By: Kaffe Diem
Yet you are openly here saying you don't want to work on things,
There is a definite disconnect in our communication.
I definitely get your frustration, and I have to say you're putting up with a lot for the sake of your son. I can't say I'm cut from the same cloth. I am probably much more selfish. I see myself more like SS - still wanting to have a go at a happy R, preferably with my H but if not, then fine.
Look - at the end of the day - you live your life how you want to live it. You don't seem like a depressed person. You do seem content in your situation, more like, you're resigned to it being what it is. I think this is a perfectly acceptable POV, and if we were back about 50 or 60 years, we'd know a lot more women like you. You are doing what you believe to be best, for the sake of your son.
I remember OM1 telling me a story about how he and his dad clashed like crazy. According to him, his dad didn't treat anyone well and when he asked his mother one day why she had stayed with him all those years, she told him it was for the sake of him and his brother. OM1 still came out completely damaged and might even have been better off without the negative influence of his father, but his mother thought she was doing the best thing by staying married.
These days, women take more liberties. The notion of "being happy" is something that we think we are entitled to. I am on that bandwagon myself. You do not seem to be motivated by that at all. Some would call that noble, others would say you're a martyr. What do you think, CV?
I think we are confused about why you're here... you don't want to leave your M... you are frustrated about working on it... you don't seem to be questioning any of it... so tell us CV, how can we help you?
Me54, H53 M 23, T 25 S20, S18 BD: April 2024 Moved out: August 2024
Love means not giving up on someone even if they've given up on you.
"Being right is the booby prize of life." - Susan Page
RLA, I definitely don't consider myself a martyr. But wouldn't go so far as to say I'm noble either. If I had to come up with a word, I would describe myself as responsible. And perhaps a realist. I have a responsibility to S12. And I know the next R isn't going to be a magical fantasy of romantic wonderfulness anyway. I've done the "divorced man with children and a bitter ex-W" thing and I'm really not interested in doing that again, so what would be my option? A 50yo bachelor? No thanks! A 30yo single? Again, no thanks. So there's no draw for me to D right now, as there might be if I was a WAS having an affair, or 20 years younger.
When H and I were arguing more, I was definitely concerned about the impact on S12, but that doesn't happen anymore. He's just consumed with being 12, and that's good. I enjoy him immensely, and if I'm selfish in any way, then it's that I don't want to have to give him up half the time. He's my one and only, and I don't want to miss any of his life.
So perhaps that's the answer to the question of what I get out of the M: not having to give up time with my S12.
I need help making my M/life the best it can be under the circumstances, the circumstances being that H is probably not going to change. I've actually made a whole lot of progress in the last year, so maybe there's not that much to do. When we used to do counseling, I used to have more issues to discuss than the time would allow. Now, I don't even want to go to counseling because I can't think of anything we would discuss. I think, mostly, I've improved in focusing on me and GAL'g, so the problems in the M simply don't bother me like they used to. And I've grown to accept that my M is simply not going to be what I thought it would be so I'm not rebelling against that anymore, making for a lot less internal turmoil.
Maybe I don't really need much and I'm still here because I feel like I've gotten to know some really great people, and simply enjoy their online company.
CV, I do believe you have made changes within yourself over the time you have been here, and that is great.
Originally Posted By: Crazyville
So perhaps that's the answer to the question of what I get out of the M: not having to give up time with my S12.
This is a very important statement.
I do understand that you want to make the best of your life, under the circumstances. I would submit we all want to support you in doing that.
In in all fairness, I would submit that we are here for more than to help you make the best of your circumstances, rather to help you make your circumstances even better, that you do not have to work on keeping things from getting worse.
I don't want to see you survive in your M (what ever the future may bring), I want to see you THRIVE in your M.
I also know, that is not what you want.
What is clear is, you do not want to loose time with s12, that would be more painful for you than the conflict you have with your H. And you do not want to get into conflict with your H, because that would be more painful than living in a disconnected way with your H, that you are currently living.
So, what you really want is, a way to reduce your pain.
That, is understandable.
We have a saying here: The only way PAST it, is THROUGH it.
The two things that you really want, are conflicting with each other. That certainly leads you to frustration. Frustration is more pain and you want to avoid pain. That's your cycle.
I can not tell the future, but I can tell you confidently, what you resist, persists.
Until that pattern is broken, it will continue. This is no one's doing but your own.
So I can tell you that, as you continue down that path, you will be D once your S graduates, because nothing will change. Your innate patterns will continue. And they will continue with your H, or any new partner, and it will continue with you, even if you decide to live the rest of your life, alone.
This is a natural and normal way for you to live, and that is OK.
It is about knowing this in yourself, that you can act accordingly and know that you are doing things because of this, within you. Keep being you, just know that you can do things differently at any given moment.
I don't see you being at peace, I see you conflicted. That is sad. Often, we rationalize this by saying, "it is what it is". The reality is, it does not have to be what it is.
So I'm going to take the liberty of moving time forward to give an idea of what the future brings.
Your S will graduate. Generally speaking, between now and then, your S is going to disentangle himself from both your H and you, on his way to graduation. That means, you are going to loose time with him.
He may or may not stay at home while he goes to college and/or begins his life as a contributor of society, working a job, having a girlfriend, a social life. Eventually, he will move away from home. Aside from what ever R he has with you, he will be gone from you.
As time progresses to that point, you will continue to avoid working through issues with your H, because you want to avoid the pain of conflict. Worst case scenario, your H leaves because the M is unfulfilling for him, which means that the two of you will separate, which means you will loose time with S.
I would think this should be motivation for you to work on the M, but right now, you would risk this future pain, for time with the least amount of pain, right now.
Lets say that is not the case, but rather, you manage to last until your S moves on. Then, you choose to D your H. Another 5 years for sure with your H will be 5 more years of pain as you suffer silently. Maybe you start to have "cravings". You start to seek the company of other men, not for sex maybe, but for emotional and other companionship. You will justify that you are not really M anyhow, that the M is dead, so you will move forward with an EA. That will conflict you, so you will rationalize more. Now, you will do your utmost to hide it, lest you dare your H or, god forbid your S, finds out. More pain.
Or, you could deny that for yourself, that human need to feel love and connected. You will dull your emotions because it will be painful. But that need will continue to be there, no matter what method you use to remove those emotions. Best case, you can become so desensitised to that need, that you basically become emotionally unavailable to anyone, including your S. Sure, you'll enjoy your time with S, but it will be emotionally unfulfilling, because you will have killed that in yourself.
Of course, lets just go through the 5 years and pretend that is not going to happen, because right now, you certainly don't feel that way. You don't see you having any need to be emotionally or physically connected with a man. You'll surrogate those needs to your S anyhow, but in a healthy way, of course.
So your S is now gone and you D your H. Right now, you will believe that it will be a pleasure. You can hardly wait to be untied from him. Almost something to look forward to. Keeping track in the calender, counting down the days. Continuing to pretend that life is good in the eyes of everyone. The truth is, another fives years with your H is another five years of history. More bonding between all of you, regardless of whether you can see it or not. Making the D even more painful. Painful for your H, painful for your S, painful for you. Never mind the financial pain, even if you are financially stable independently, there will be costs. Five more years of financial entanglement with your H that the courts will have to extract you from, when you D.
And... how are you going to rationalize filing D? Your S, whom you believe has no idea there's anything wrong, will wonder if his whole life with M parents who were working on their issues, was all a lie. If you file, he could very well blame you. Or, if he does not blame you, it may be because of the co-dependency that crept into your R with him, as you used him to meet emotional needs that should be met by a man. Certainly it will not bode well for any future R your S may have as a man with a girlfriend or a wife.
I see a lot of pain in your future, no matter how you might rationalize or justify it or hold it off.
Or, you could just step up and deal with the pain of right now, in two ways. Prevent the rest of it from even happening.
Either deal with D right now, put the M out of it's misery, a year of getting used to it and dealing with the fallout. Then, living a happy life in the future, what ever it may bring.
Or...
Deal with a bit of pain right now, and put your M back on track, so that the future of doom and gloom portrayed above, does not happen.
Of course, that horrible future will never happen, because everything you are doing right now to avoid working on the problems and making things better, will prevent the negative outcome of D in the future.
Hey CV, I was just thinking about you and your resentment issues towards your H.
I then happened to come across this post you made to ScaredSilly in the Piecing forum:
Originally Posted By: Crazyville
SS, have you read the book, "After the Affair?" I haven't but thought I'd pick up a copy. I don't remember if your H did anything in line with an actual affair, but I'm thinking it might still be appropriate because it all boils down to betrayal of the R, right? In your case, you probably feel like his kids were "the other woman." I know I do. At minimum, it figure it has to have something in it about healing the R and rebuilding intimacy in the worst-case scenario, so even a few nuggets in it might be helpful.
First, that was good advice. I know that I felt my W spent more time and attention towards her friends and family, than she did with me. We would be in the middle of a conversation that was important to me, the phone would ring (a friend calling to chat) and she would take that call and leave me hanging. This being one of my LL (Quality Time), it was very defeating for me.
That said, your post earlier on your thread regarding your H and his kids from his previous M, really changes context when the above is added. I'm not sure if you intentionally withheld from us here how you felt about the step kids.
I'm guessing that isn't even just the step kids and I'm also guessing that this might also have to do with something you may feel but are not mentioning here, that perhaps you feel your H spends too much attention on the step kids, than he does with S12.
And I wonder if that really is some of the things you do not want to get into.
KD, thanks for your posts. I haven't been ignoring you, just out of town for a few days.
I appreciate your opinions on things. Some of it I see differently than you, but I think we're both entitled to what we believe, even if it's different. One of the things I've been working on in myself is the need to explain/argue every aspect of my perspective when I disagree with something. I must be doing well with that task because I don't even feel compelled to do so in this case. So, though I've read all of your posts, I'm only going to respond to a few specific points and let the rest simply be.
Quote:
Hey CV, I was just thinking about you and your resentment issues towards your H.
Okay, THIS made me laugh! Great segue!
Quote:
And you do not want to get into conflict with your H, because that would be more painful than living in a disconnected way with your H, that you are currently living.
I'm at a complete loss as to where this is coming from. Anyone that knows me personally knows that I do not avoid conflict, to the extreme. It's why the statement above made me laugh, because it's the kind of approach I'm known for. And it's one of the things I've worked to improve, realizing that not all battles need to be fought, and that not everyone is as fearless about confrontation as I am. H is the extreme opposite and will avoid conflict at any cost. The same could be said for pain-avoidance. I would much rather pull a band-aid off quickly than one hair at a time. I don't enjoy it, so I'm not going to cut off my nose to spite my face, but if there is no practical reason for dragging it out, by avoiding it, I won't.
To your note about my comment on SS's thread, I have mentioned this before. I've spoken of H prioritizing his family over me, about the lies on their behalf, of how I feel betrayed and devalued. If I haven't spoken of it more, I can't see that being a problem because I don't recall anyone ever asking me to tell more about the things my H does in this M. As it stands now, the kids are grown and out, and I have a good R with 3 of the 4, no contact with the 4th. H is a "great" dad to S12. I'm not sure what you think I'm withholding.
Quote:
Deal with a bit of pain right now, and put your M back on track, so that the future of doom and gloom portrayed above, does not happen.
And that would be......?
And for the record, I don't find sarcasm a healthy approach to any conversation. I would appreciate it if you would please refrain from it in my threads.
Sarcasm is anger's bitter cousin. Come on you two...we are here to help each other.
M17 yrs. me49 xW47 d15 d11
BD1-Jul/11(Affair found out) Therapy 9 months (tried 2) BD2- May/12(sep) Court Jul/13 - I got 50/50 Sold home - Aug/13 Court #2 - Dec/13 Court#3 - Apr/14 ... She lost again We settled.
