Total despair 2

[swoop]

Well,

My first thread got locked. I guess that I can look at that as a mini milestone???...haha

Unfortunately, I just had a micro run-in the the W. She phoned to speak with our D and wanted to speak with me before hanging up. We discussed my daughter losing her first tooth, some school stuff and the idea of me watching our daughter on monday's after school until my wife gets off work. The conversation was very upbeat and positive. We even laughed a couple times.....Until....She brought up the fact that her cousin and hubby had visited me this week. Her tone was instantly different, bordering on bitchy. She was obviously upset that members of her family were not taking her side and boycotting our friendship. She was also upset that I had made some plans for a group of friends to get together to see "rock of ages" at a local theater, a couple weeks from now. She found all of this out by viewing her cousins Facebook page, where it was prominently displayed. My wife has unfriended me long ago on her Facebook, but I thought she might still be secretly stalking me in some way or other. During this part of the conversation, I was still pretty positive and upbeat. I didn't feel like an arguement was pending, and I was trying to stay focused. I saw that this would be a cheeseless tunnel, so I quickly ended the conversation by simply saying, "if there is a problem with you and your cousin, you should maybe talk with your cousin. I'm going to let you go. I have some stuff I need to do with D before bedtime", and I said my goodbye. Within 2 minutes she sends me this text....

"Sorry I shoulnd't put that on you. It was my choice to leave you, so I need to deal with the fact that I will lose some people in my life. Have a good night. I am just going to take our mutual friends slash family off my news feed so I don't have to get hurt by it anymore. No biggy".

I invited about 30 people to attend this show, some she knows some she doesn't. Her cousin was included and was the very first peron to confirm that they would attend. I thought about her text for a bit and replied with this...

"I understand your feelings. Actually, I was going to ask if you would like to go to the show with us".

She replied...

"That's ok. you guys will have fun. I need to study anyway".

I ended the conversation with....

It will be fun. If you change your mind, the offer is out there. Have a good night"

I was a little bit flushed with emotion after the conversation, but NOTHING like I have been in the past. I feel like I held my composure and did the best DB job that I could, given the situation. Wouldn't mind hearing what the pros think

[Spartan]

No pro by any stretch but I think you did very good.

[AnotherStander]

She was obviously upset that members of her family were not taking her side and boycotting our friendship.

Mind-reading.

She was also upset that I had made some plans for a group of friends to get together to see "rock of ages" at a local theater, a couple weeks from now.

Her problem, not yours. I think you handled it appropriately by just telling her to consult with her cousin and then letting her go.

"I understand your feelings. Actually, I was going to ask if you would like to go to the show with us".

That sounds like you're trying to backtrack. Next time just say "you're welcome to join us if you wish."

I ended the conversation with....

It will be fun. If you change your mind, the offer is out there. Have a good night"

I wouldn't have replied back at all. Tell her she can come along, if she says no then shrug your shoulders and move on like you don't care whether she goes or not.

[swoop]

I guess I need to be a little more detached :-/
I feel like I am making big gains in detaching and controlling my emotions, but I have a long way to go. I am struggling a little with my 180's, basically just being more upbeat and willing to engage her without being critical. I am GAL, which is helping as well. It is getting a little easier every day. I am able to stop and think before I react, which I couldn't have even thought about doing only a few short weeks ago.

I am not so sure that I was mind reading. I mean she pretty much came right out and said that it bothered her that her friends and family were sharing time with me, jealousy possible? I don't know, but I am pretty sure that was the issue or why would she bring it up like that? The only thing that "I felt" I could have improved on was how I offered her the option of going with us. In retrospect, it did sound like I was backtracking, and I definitely didn't need to reiterate it again. Of course, I am no pro. I still need to improve my DB skills dramatically. I am slowly getting there with the help from all of you

This brings up a new question. My wife in particular is NOT a pursuer. She definitely waits to be pursued, always been like that, probably always will. Granted, she probably has a line of men a mile long just waiting for the opportunity. She is a very beautiful woman, and guys are going to flock to her. She has no need to pursue what she wants. I am worried that if I don't detach in just the right way, she will easily lose any interest and wander away with someone else who can show her affection and admiration, which unfortunately I can't do while being emotionally detached. With that being said, what are some "non-pursuing" ways of showing her that I have changed, which by the way I am definitely doing? I know I don't want to call her, can't ask her out, can't dote or chase after her. But, what can I do when we are communicating that will possibly strike some interest in her? I'm kind of at a loss regarding that. I understand she needs to miss me and deal with her inner-struggle before there is any chance, but how will I be able to engage her in a way that will peak some interest or possibly keep her wondering about coming back to the M? What words or actions will the WAW wife be attracted to, that won't push them away? It seems that if I do nothing, nothing will ever happen. I am having a hard time balancing between "lovingly detached" and just being stand offish or cold. I just fear that if I don't show kindness or interest, just right, She will interpret is as chasing and pull away even farther. I need help with this.

Thanks again, I don't know what I would do without the support.

[eyesopen]

Spartan,

I feel your pain with the non-pursuing ways of pursuing. I think the key is to stay with the lovingly detached angle. I also struggle with either feeling I am coming on too strong or just being sullen and cold. It is something that we just have to keep at and find the balance that works for us.

Remember, we do have the gift of time.

[Spartan]

My W is also not a pursuer so I've been struggling with the exact same things. Heck today I've flip flopped on my strategy 3 different times while at work. I'm afraid if I do nothing then nothing will happen and we'll just proceed right into D but any pursuing I do won't go well.

I am having a hard time balancing between "lovingly detached" and just being stand offish or cold. I just fear that if I don't show kindness or interest, just right, She will interpret is as chasing and pull away even farther. I need help with this.

Looking forward to hearing what the vets say to this.

[GH31]

I saw that this would be a cheeseless tunnel, so I quickly ended the conversation by simply saying, "if there is a problem with you and your cousin, you should maybe talk with your cousin. I'm going to let you go. I have some stuff I need to do with D before bedtime", and I said my goodbye.

PERFECT.

Within 2 minutes she sends me this text....

"Sorry I shoulnd't put that on you. It was my choice to leave you, so I need to deal with the fact that I will lose some people in my life. Have a good night. I am just going to take our mutual friends slash family off my news feed so I don't have to get hurt by it anymore. No biggy".

See?

"I understand your feelings. Actually, I was going to ask if you would like to go to the show with us".

This isn't a catastrophe but I would not have sent any response.

BTW, silence is also a response and often an extremely potent and appropriate one.

Now that you are living apart, silence mixed in with sparing and sporadic contact is going to be one of your most powerful of tools.

However, the person who benefits most from the silence and from getting a life (you must have both) is you.

GH31

[AnotherStander]

I am not so sure that I was mind reading. I mean she pretty much came right out and said that it bothered her that her friends and family were sharing time with me, jealousy possible?

My apologies, the way you phrased it sounded like you were assuming that's what she was thinking, but if she said it then it's not mind-reading Yes, could definitely be jealousy, or even anger in that she may feel like you're lining up her family against her.

In retrospect, it did sound like I was backtracking, and I definitely didn't need to reiterate it again.

That's OK, I was mentioning it more for future reference for when an activity you might want to invite her to comes up again. I was just reiterating what it says in DR which is basically to make the plans for yourself, then tell your W she's welcome to come along if she wants but make it clear you're doing it whether she does or not. I hope that's more clear. You're just trying to make the point that it's your life and you're enjoying it with or without her, and also to drive home the point that it's not a "date" if she goes.

With that being said, what are some "non-pursuing" ways of showing her that I have changed, which by the way I am definitely doing?

Have you read the 5 Love Languages? There are some helpful tips for ways you can show love or fill your W's love tank without pursuing. But you're right, it's a balancing act trying not to cross the line into pursuit.

[GH31]

I am having a hard time balancing between "lovingly detached" and just being stand offish or cold.

When you interact with someone can you tell whether they're being "standoffish or cold"?

Can you tell whether they're curious/concerned for your wellbeing, but that they have somewhere they have to be? That now just isn't the time?

I think this is the "balance" that you are trying to strike and there is a difference.

I just fear that if I don't show kindness or interest, just right, She will interpret is as chasing and pull away even farther.

A great antidote to this is you being the one to cheerfully end any interactions you may have, because you have things to do, people to see etc.

Let her be the one to initiate any interactions with you.

Do not initiate any interactions with her unless it is a genuine emergency.

When she initiates an interaction with you she is giving you the opportunity to show kindness, curiosity and concern for her wellbeing and then, most importantly, to cheerfully conclude the interaction with an "I've got to crack on now, W. Take care/be well/be safe".

I need help with this.

I hope this has helped.

GH31

[swoop]

All of this helps so much!!! I am still struggling to understand the psychology behind what is happening, and it seems that most of you understand more about what is going on inside my wifes head, than I do....and I've been with her all day, every day for almost 12 years! It is still very bizarre to me that she could literally spin our world upside down, in regards to how she engages me now.

I am also having trouble understanding when exactly she is interacting me, and when I just "think" she is interacting me. I have told myself that I will NOT phone or text her unless is is absolutely necessary. I often let my daughter answer the phone when she calls, so she can have direct conversation with D and avoid contact with me. I thought that is what she would want, so that is what I have been doing more and more.

I am just never sure when she is reaching out to me, or just reaching out for non-sense. Not once has she called to speak with me about anything concerning "us". It is always in regards to business, daughter, scheduling or what have you. For instance, today she has already text me twice. The first time was to ask what D and I had for dinner last night. I replied and asked, "why". She stated that she wanted to make dinner arrangements for her and D and didn't want to do the same thing we did last night. I didn't feel it carried a whole lot of weight. First, who cares. Second, our daughter is 6 and probably could have easily answered that question for her.

The second text was asking me to burn a CD with a new song that our D will be practicing in Mini-cheerleading. Honestly, does she really need "ME" to burn her a CD? I am sure there are other avenues, possibly with someone that she doesn't currently hate. So, this begs the question,is she literally giving me an opportunity to show that kindness, curiosity and concern that you mentioned? That is the way I have been playing it, positive and upbeat, no matter what the question or favor, I have been trying to be obliging and nice....but I would like to know.... Is she reaching out to me or just reaching out for legitimate assistance?