While waiting on that...I was re-reading my older posts and came across a couple of points that hit me. I don't know if they hit me in the same manner when I first read them but they hit me now.
Originally Posted By: Kaffe Diem
And that ultimately... you became like her X1, that you disengaged from her. Basically, for her, it was the same thing... all over again... I really think that there is a very close correlation between your D1 and your D2.
This hit me, hard. I disengaged during both M1 and M2 - maybe for different reasons, maybe not - but I disengaged. Damn it..this is what I do, I disengage. I disengaged from M1 and M2 during stresses, I disengaged from my family for other reasons, I disengaged from friends, I disengaged, disengaged, disengaged...this is how I handle stress and I haven't even seen it. My entire life but I didn't see it. I also see that M1 only entrenched this way of living further. X1 was a very emotional and sensitive person. In the beginning this was something that made us closer - I consoled her and we connected during these times. Later, I pulled away and disconnected from X1 when she reacted highly emotional. She didn't change how she handled this emotionally, I changed how I reacted to it - I pulled away and disengaged from her when she acted that way. If I were to be honest I lost a little respect for her because, as I saw it, she couldn't "handle" the stresses of life. But, look at me, how did I handle it? I disengaged. I could have talked to her about it, I could have went to counseling with her, I could have taken her to a marriage program. I did none of those things, I just disengaged. Ugh...
And then, I did the same thing in M2 and X2 just started seeing what she couldn't stand in her M1. Je*us, I knew I had a big part in D2, but I didn't see how connected it was to how I actually lived my entire life. I looked at it from a micro level - while I should have seen it at a macro level...
I did this to myself - will I do it again? How many times do I need to do this before I learn? I'm afraid...
Are you having difficulty understanding what deep and painful loss means?
No, I'm just not sure what you are asking.
Originally Posted By: Kaffe Diem
Can you describe the feeling you had after your M1 failed
This I understand. After M1 failed - I guess it all depends on "when" it failed. This doesn't just happen one day. It's a slow, devilish, creeping process that most people don't even see happening. I could say the writing was on the wall even before we were married. We lived together for years before we got married so how we handled our relationship was well engrained at that point. That said I never saw that as a reason for D early on. I guess when the lawyers were brought in, when I moved out, when it was "real" I felt confused, unsure, without focus.
Originally Posted By: Kaffe Diem
that was a deep and painful loss of the M1 and X1?
This part I am unsure what you mean. Are you asking me if it was a deep and painful loss? If that is what you are asking then no, I would say it was a deep and painful loss. Why? Because when it was first happening I was more confused and unsure than anything else. And, as we determined earlier, due to the fact that X2 came into the picture before D1 was legally finalized I think this didn't allow me to really feel how one should feel when getting D. I was in a completely different place at that point. I was reconnecting with X2 and that's all my mind was on.
Another thing I'll add as it's important. I may have already mentioned it but it's very important so I'll mention it again. While me not engaging in life in many different ways (making new friends, new medication, driving, family, etc) is a very important aspect of M2's demise - I want to be sure to not take the spotlight off of the disconnecting and/or "retreating into a cave" part of my life. This is specifically what was brought up by X2 a number of times near the end. I feel that working to reconcile M2 would have had a chance if I had not been hibernating in my cave. She specifically noted that she was not going away for the time being but that she was not going to come in and pull me out of my cave, that I had to come out myself. The reason why this is critical to note is that one of the issues I had with how she handled D was that she didn't communicate enough about how she felt thus not giving me the option to make changes as I didn't know how dire it was. Well, taking into account her "cave" declaration I am wrong. While she didn't specifically say if I stayed in my cave she would file for D she made it crystal clear that she was no longer going to go looking for me and that I would have to come out of my retreat on my own. If I did that, if I "heard" her, I feel we would have had every chance to actually work through all the other issues and end up with a stronger marriage because of it.
I had written the following when you said you didn't understand:
Originally Posted By: Kaffe Diem
Are you having difficulty understanding what deep and painful loss means?
I would say the posts above speak to that question.
Let me provide the context for what follows. (And to the mods, the following link specifically speaks to a WAS (even MLCer) mind set of "why" one disconnects without provocation, due to underlying fears.)
Everyone can and does disconnect, from time to time. What ever "reason" one uses to explain "why" they disconnect, the underlying cause is fear. Al Tuttle explains how fear (our primal fear) drives us, even when there is no real threat. When it comes to emotions, that fear is Vulnerability.
oh, BTW: I wanted to "hat tip" the forum member that posted the talk early on this board... but I can't remember who it was or which thread Thanks, anyhow... whoever you were...
[quote=Kaffe Diem]When it comes to emotions, that fear is Vulnerability.Brené Brown explains how this works in her Ted Talk: The power of vulnerability
vulnerability: the willingness to say "I love you" first. the willingness to invest in a relationship that may, or may not, workout. Stop controlling, stop predicting...
Breakdown vs. Awakening (one in the same?)
"We numb vulnerability": I numbed vulnerability (a.k.a. fear)
"Blame: a way to discharge pain and discomfort"
"When we numb vulnerability (fear) we numb joy"...OMG, this is what I did (tearing up)...this is what I did...I had fear, I numbed it, and in the process I number the love of my relationship..
4311, please take a moment to process that and don't beat yourself up over it.
Remember... it is very, very human. We all do it. I did it in a way similar to you, although thankfully I had tools and knowledge along the way to understand that I did that. I still repeated the pattern, but I could act on that knowledge. I still needed to protect myself, even though I knew it was potentially harmful.
I am much more vulnerable now than I was 5 years ago, and then I was 15 years ago. It is a life long process to be able to keep being vulnerable, even when it really hurts...
Which brings me back to your M1.
Did you ever feel deep and painful loss over loosing M1?
Did you ever feel deep and painful loss over loosing M1?
Did I ever have a feeling of deep and painful loss over loosing M1. Yes. Did I ever bring that to the surface and allow myself to feel it and process it. No.
In a very bad way I did not have to deal with the pain and loss because I was in the clouds due to reconnecting with X2. However, I have, for some time now, been dealing with the hit by the loss of two marriages. And that, primarily, is your doing. And I thank you for that. I am now feeling the pain of loosing both X1 and X2. Think about it. Those are the only two people, other than family, that I have loved. Sure, different kinds of love, but love nonetheless.
Thanks, anyhow... whoever you were... 
