Ruby and FY, thank you. I say to myself every day that I don't know what I would've done without you guys.
Ruby, yes, I have the same sense that now he feels safe to explore his feelings, which is good.
FY, thank you for the encouraging words. Yes, it's been stressful. I will stay grounded and will continue taking care of myself. The massage sounds good :-) It's too cold/snowy to go biking, which used to be my daily routine until a couple of days ago, but I will probably start going for long walks.
Let's see how it goes on Saturday. Will keep you posted.
I really like your points (1-6 written yesterday). I think you've thought it all through really wisely.
I agree about not giving your H the letter. I'm sure he knows how you feel well enough to know that you don't want a D. I don't think that there is any crucial bit of information that he is missing. It seems he feels safer when he feels freer. That letter would be pressure.
I can highly recommend Laurie as a coach too. A couple of times I've had a session with a different person when Laurie was away and that worked too. You might want to see if she is available sooner than Jody. I'm sure it wouldn't take her long to get up to speed with your sitch.
Your H definitely sounds as if he enjoys your company. That is huge in itself.
Take care, Tori.
Me: 51 H: 52 T: 23 yrs M: 19 yrs S18, D16, S14 (special needs) PA: 2003/2004 Piecing: 2004 on Suspect H had EA: 8/2012-12/2012
Wendylon, I really appreciate your feedback. My H is not ready to be married to me or to anyone else. It seems he's enjoying the single life, and you're right, this letter would just be more of the same: me playing the role of the fixer/doer.
I only have 2 sessions left with Jody, so I will wait as much as I can before talking to her. I figured I could talk to her right after I return from my trip to CA.
They're forecasting snow in our area, so we'll see if my H can make it on Saturday. The way to where I live is treacherous in the snow. If I can't talk to him on Sat, I will try to get some alone time when we go to the show on Monday night.
Yes, he enjoys our time together. I feel best when I'm with him...it's relaxed and fun (at least now!--he can be a piece of work when he's in one of those foul moods.)
A 180 for me: My H said yesterday (he offered) that he would shovel the snow at our house but he didn't know when. The old me wouldn't have trusted him and would've called the snow removal company. Now, I will just let him do it and if we miss a house showing bc he didn't shovel, then he'll see the consequences.
Hello BTB - I'm sorry I've not been around. Sorry too that I haven't read this thread to catch up with where you're at. However, I've been thinking of you and I just wanted to drop in and tell you. More on the other side of 2012. I promise. Tumbling x
So, my H texted me about his snow-shoveling project and said that we could just let the snow melt. There is a considerable amount of snow with ice on top--almost impossible to move and of course will not melt. We're expecting 4 more inches tomorrow. People might request a showing of the house, and they will not be able to get in the way the driveway is now.
I suggested to please check it out and let me know if he really thinks the snow will melt. In the past, this would've made me upset, but I would've bottled it up. I would've called the snow company behind his back. I feel like doing the same this year. But I won't. I will wait. Today I remembered what it's like to be married to my H. We do have very different approaches to solve problems. If we ever get to be together again, I'll have to figure out how to "merge" our styles while being open and honest.
Hey Tori, just dropping by to check up. Things seem in hand, good for you for letting H walk the snow shovelling path on his own. I would just let him go on with this decision and if you miss a showing so be it. A few consequences never hurt
Hi Tori- I agree with Ruby. Let him take the lead on this one. The consequences are not devastating and it will give you a chance to sit back and observe as well.. bot him and your own actions and thoughts.
Thinking of you ((((( )))))
TPS Me: 44 H: 42 M14 T17 S10 D7 10/10 H moves out after death of his father-same month 21/04/12 H is 'DONE' 04/05/12 OW/PA confirmed (rumors from 2010) July '14 H ends affair May '15 H moves back home
Thank you, Ruby and Busting! It's true that the consequences are not major, so it's a great chance to do the 180 :-)
Yesterday, when I talked to my H, I noticed his tone of voice/demeanor matched the way he used to be when he hadn't slept much. I know he had a late "Improv" show the night before. He becomes really rushed and kind of rude. He doesn't listen and becomes restless. He had a late tennis match last night, so if he comes over today, he might be in a similar type of mood. If this is the case, I won't even try to bring up the "confusion" issue. Also, last night I was thinking about my sitch and had this urge to throw in the towel. I guess I am tired of DBing, and wonder if maybe my H (or at least this new version of him) is not the guy for me. Everyone seems to think I deserve better. So maybe the comments are getting to me. I know he's not Mr. Perfect, and needs to grow as a person. The only thing that makes me continue on this DB path is love. Today I feel neutral. Will post later if he comes over.
My H was able to visit. Sorry about the details—but I need it for myself/coach.
For lunch, I suggested a couple of restaurants or cooking. He chose cooking. So we made vegetables and rice together. It was like the old times, with him asking me questions from a magazine and seeing how many I got right. We had our meal, and then lounged on the couch. He was as touchy as always but did ask what was “not allowed.” So I only allowed the hugging, hand holding, and cuddling. He asked what % chance I thought we had to have sex again. I said 50%. He was surprised. “Really? Better than the 1% chance you gave me on your journal!”
This was a good segue for me to talk about something that had been on my mind: the hurt he carries around. Shortly before he had the A, he searched through my stuff and found this notebook which I had been completing for my IC. I only wrote on it when I was angry or in a low mood. Basically, it was my way to vent. So he took pictures of every page on the journal and prob read it many times. He saw me as someone who hated him—based on the frustrations I put down. I don’t even remember what I wrote, but he remembers every word, and lately, he had been bringing some of those things up—as a joke. But I knew it wasn’t funny. I knew he was hiding the hurt. So today I said I was sorry about all those things I wrote. And that I knew he carried some hurt from the past. He hesitated, then said, “yes.” Then he said he wouldn’t have wanted me to read his journal. That when he was first starting the EA, he wrote why it was wrong, but he still did it.
I proceeded to tell him how I had changed as a person, and made sure to point out all the things that had hurt him: how I took him for granted, how I didn’t appreciate his efforts around the house/holidays bc they were not “perfect,” how I focused on what I didn’t like instead of on all the positives. I even talked about how I’m making the interactions with my mom more positive. He said, “wow, it looks like you’ve really taken a hard look at yourself.” I said yes. He first tried to tell me how he had made the same mistakes, but I told him I wasn’t pointing out what he had done, but what I had done bc I only controlled myself. So he listened. I wanted to avoid him feeling bad about himself in my presence.
He asked me what I thought about the A. I said it had happened, and we were aligned with it. I told him I understood how he was so frustrated and felt he could not trust me after reading the journal, and how the OW provided the attention he needed, plus he thought they were connecting bc she was also complaining about her M. He nodded and said “wow” again, as though saying, “you get it.” Then he added that this is what books said about A. I said it was true, but the books were probably right. He was quiet.
We talked about the Anita Morjani book, which has a lot of deep existentialist stuff, so it was good conversation. We talked for about 3 hours.
He asked me what his best and worst 3 qualities were. My answer: best: the way he can make anything fun, his smartness, and how he can read people. I didn’t tell him what his worst were, so he asked again. I said, “procrastination,” and then he cut me off to say, “my lies.” His expression was that of shame, and I didn’t want that feeling during our time together, so I said, “Well, that’s over.” He asked if I really thought he was always honest. I said not always but most of the time. I added, another quality is “not disclosing what you feel sometimes.” He said, “Sometimes? I don’t really like talking about what I feel at all.” I forgot what I said for #3 but it was a minor thing.
I asked him to tell me my qualities. He said best were kindness, beauty, and loving demeanor. Worst were stubbornness, inflexibility and being overly sensitive. I told him I was working on that and asked how I could overcome those things. He didn’t have an answer.
He also asked “what do you need from me now?” I said I wanted open communication and for him to share his feelings. He asked, “feelings about what?” I said, “about everything; what you like and don’t like, what you are worried about or afraid of.” He said he wasn’t there yet. I said it was okay. He added he might get there or not. I said either way was fine, and that I was sharing not everything but a lot. He also said that it was hard for him to share his feelings when the other person wasn’t going to like what he said. I think he was referring to him still wanting a D, bc he made the same comment in the past. I should’ve told him what I thought but figured it was negative, so I didn’t do it. Should I?
He also said he’d be more likely to be open if I didn’t freak out. I said I won’t, and he said he had noticed the change, and brought up when in the past I would get offended, so he didn’t want to open up anymore. I validated.
Interesting note: He said about 4 times that I was his wife. A couple examples: “Is it a sin to covet your wife?” And, “The tennis club owner asked me if you were injured. I didn’t know. My own wife and I didn’t know.” Also, “when we were married…I mean, we’re still married, but before…” He also said that sometimes when he meets other women he says, “Man, am I going to say in the future that I really had it good?”
I didn’t really see an in to ask about the confusion, so I didn’t do it. Maybe when he said he would think he had it good. I might’ve missed my chance, but it didn’t seem right at the moment. I thought the convo was already heavy enough.
He said it was comforting to see me. That I was fun and he enjoyed being with me.
I said I was looking forward to New Year’s Eve. I tried to sound enthusiastic but not over the top.
We danced, played ping pong…it was a fun time. Trying to not get too excited about this, since he did it back in July and August and then filed for D.
During one of our hugs he called me “love” again—first time since April. It slipped out, bc he said, “Ha ha, I still call you love.” He wanted to make it into a joke—again, his attempt to hide his real feelings.
He also asked about the coach. I was surprised. Back in June told him I was seeing a marriage coach and was taking the money out of our HSA account. Guess he didn’t forget! He asked whether the coach had told me to not have sex with him. I said no, that this was my own idea. Of course, he made it into another joke.
He asked if he had validated me enough during our M. I said sometimes. I asked him if I had validated enough, and he was quiet. That’s when I talked about my focusing on what wasn’t good and why I was changing that. He nodded. So this shows he is 1) self-conscious and might not feel like he’s a good person 2) wants me to ask him about my own behavior as a W.
We talked about so many things we had never talked about—at least since before he moved out. We remembered some good times. It felt good. He had a lot of Qs about the way I saw him as a H and about our M. I definitely sensed that he feels shame about the A and about the D. He definitely carries a lot of hurt.
And as I was writing this, he called. He said he really had a nice time and that it was “hard for us to…” he trailed off. I asked what it was but I know he was thinking “It’s hard for us to move on if we bond so much.” I pretended to be oblivious.—Right move? Didn’t want to bring on the “moving on” thing. But instead of answering my question, he said, “time will tell.” I said yes and ended the call.
Good interaction today. I’m proud of my behavior, and SO GLAD I didn’t give him the letter. Don’t feel like throwing in the towel like I did last night. Hopefully we’ll have more opportunities to talk like this so I can finally bring up the confusion thing. He never brought it up today---darn. But maybe he will again. If not, and the D date is coming up, I might bring it up myself—especially after my trip to CA when I will see his family.
Qs for you guys: 1. Your general impression about this meeting 2. Should I tell him when I know he’s thinking about D or moving on or any other negative stuff? I think he actually believes I don’t get it. Could this help him open up? I try to stay away from anything negative/ 3. Other advice.
