Changing Directions

[2chiquitos]

"trying" I hate Hs interpretation of trying.
H-doing only what keeps his heart safe. No fear involved in the choices he makes.
Me-riding the roller coaster from h3ll to make my M work! (and I HATE roller coasters!!)

[FloydMan]

Michelle’s post is also bang on for my sitch.
My W woke up on Fathers Day (five weeks after separation) and said today “I am not wearing my wedding ring anymore”. Timing is everything. That is passive-aggressive, spiteful, intentional hurt at its finest.
RLA, I think Breakdown is empathizing with you and is coaching you. Coaches need to be tough, not coddling. I am a coach (baseball & Hockey and a coaching/lead at work). Coddling does not work in any kind of coaching, it only holds a person to their least potential. Challenging and pushing is what works in any coaching.

[mamabird]

It just feels like a little too much pushing sometimes.

[Breakdown]

...you are being a little pushy! I know you are doing it on purpose, but you have to remember where I am in this process.

You're right....it is on purpose. My hope is that you ask yourself those hard questions and really think about it...."Am I copping out? Am I making excuses?" Don't dismiss it without consideration.

Too often, I think we only hit the first layer or two of things, and we refuse to dig deeper to our own detriment. I'm challenging you to go a little further, to dig a little deeper.

Let me trust that I can hold your hand, ok?

You can absolutely hold my hand. And when you stop and say "I can't" I'm going to be pushing you (maybe pulling!) say "Yes, you can!"

I find I'm defending myself to you a lot.

You don't need to defend yourself to me....you only have to answer to yourself. What I think or say is really irrelevant to who you are and how you want to live. I absolutely do not judge you. And if I did, I'd also be the guy screaming "don't accept his judgment!" No one knows your sitch better than you.

I'll also say, there were times when I was asked a question and I immediately became defensive, offended even. I immediately wanted to dismiss it or scream "No, that's not it...no way!" But when I asked myself the question again, when I looked a little deeper and saw things for what they were, saw me for who I was, only then was I able to make some big changes. And honestly, those are painful times...it's not a fun process.

But look how far I've come. I'm not copping out, you are wrong.

You have grown by leaps and bounds for sure, and I really am proud of your strength and all that you have learned. But I also see that you continue to blame your H, and continue to put obstacles in your own path to happiness.

I hate to say this, but this reminds me of my H a little bit - I try to do something the right way, and then it gets met with something negative - even if you don't mean it that way...

I can understand how you might feel that way, and I hope you know that is not my intention. There is no judgment or criticism from me. If you think I'm wrong...no problem. But do yourself the favor and ask yourself the question a couple of times before dismissing it.

[FloydMan]

Hey RLA, I know it does….because we care. You are no doubt a beautiful person that is hurt and confused. Breakdown is right I think in that you need to ask yourself those questions.
You don’t seem to be looking for coaching but rather looking for validation and approval, which is okay too and you need that. But if you want coaching, that is going to entail challenging and some pushing. If I did not accept the pushing, challenging and coaching, I would have been divorced a year and a half ago.
I have walked/am walking in your H’s shoes. I was not a ray of sunshine either…leading up to the A and during the A and certainly not after. I was frustrated by M but never dealt with it. So was W and she never dealt with it. That is both our fault. It has taken me so long and still working on me. We cannot be ourselves amongst the turmoil. I used to be the “class clown” type, confident and self-propelled. I am getting there and you will too. However, I am not going to totally give up until we are out of the house and a D is done even though some days I say to myself, “Ahh “eff” it!”
I also look at your tag lines in your auto signature:
Love means not giving up on someone even if they've given up on you.

"Being right is the booby prize of life." - Susan Page

These are brilliant and have kept me going.

[mamabird]

Thanks you guys. I don't know where I'd be without this board sometimes!

Yes, ok, I am looking for a little validation. Hell, sometimes I really need it. I don't have a soft place to land these days and sometimes I just want that.

I know I need the pushing and coaching - sometimes it gets to be a little much though (this is why I don't like bootcamp type things and never was one for sports). I like to set my own pace. It is helping, it is keeping me on track, but it does hurt and feels hard sometimes. But yet, I'm here.

So, let's talk about me blaming H for a second.

Today I drove an hour to go buy some bookcases for my den (the room I'm sleeping in that has been disorganized for a year). H originally said he did not want me to buy anything without his "approval" so we had agreed we'd go to this place today. Not surprisingly, H backed out this morning, which didn't bother me, since now I could get whatever I wanted without having to worry about what he thought.

I did say to him, I am sorry it has come to this.

And then our whole dumb R conversation started again.

Now during these talks, I get blamed 100% for everything that has happened. The theme of today's talk was "Regretful is a backstabber."

Honestly, I am so hurt that in my time of need, when clearly I was having so many issues and dealing with them so poorly that I felt I had to accept the attention of a married man who I didn't even like in the hopes of feeling better, that my H has chosen to abandon me. That's the crux of it. Things have gotten to a critical point here and he's bailing on me, and apologizing or changing my behavior hasn't had an impact. This is why I think our R cannot be mended. H refuses to forgive me, and that is not a marriage.

H also doesn't see it that way, not at all. H sees it as, he doesn't want to be married to a backstabber (his exact words). I think H wants to use my mistakes to gain power over me, and part of this involves trying to make me feel guilty.

That has worked because I do feel guilty. And guilt is a really sucky place to be. I try every day to forgive myself and accept my faults, my mistakes, my issues, but it becomes so much harder when I'm constantly being told I'm a cheater, I'm a backstabber, I'm a liar, I'm a narcissist, etc. (again, his exact words). I start to believe it again. This isn't loving behavior. Not that I could expect that at this point, but this behavior isn't new. It's been going on for years.

I know I should feel some responsibility for our M ending up in the place that it has, and I do. But as I've said before, I can't accept 100% of the responsibility. I did make poor choices, and I feel terrible about that - not only letting H down but letting me down, too. Not being strong enough to deal with my own sh!t and running for a band-aid. I am learning more about my own self-esteem issues and how they are tied up in getting approval from men and how wrong that is.

If our M had been better, if I had felt better about it, would I have needed to do that though?

Answer is no. I was with my H for over 10 years before OM1 became OM1 (I knew him before that), and there was never any other person before that.

So here's what I say: both of us contributed to the problems in the M. Communication and intimacy - two key factors - were poor/low. As a result, I felt unloved. I guess the new me could say, I had a choice in how to deal with my feelings, but the old me wasn't even really aware of the unhappiness.

I blame my H for not stepping up to the plate and carrying his part of the M. I do not blame H for the choices that I made, and I do not blame him for my unhappiness. I blame him for his criticism, his negativity, his neglect, his disapproval, his emotional abandonment - all of which I internalized and then acted out.

[Breakdown]

That's a really good post Regret. I get it...I really do.

Here's where it's a little different for me, and yes, it's because I've been thru it and I've spent quite a bit of time working on me....H is broken. He is completely broken. He doesn't have the slightest clue how he should behave, what he should do, how he can forgive, etc. He is lost.

This just is. You can't change it. H will have to figure it out at his own pace and likely his own way. He may never figure it out. He may wake up in 20 years and be the same old selfish, hateful, unhappy bastard. There's no way to know. He owns at least 50% of this M, but whether is steps up to that is to be seen....and even if he does, his timeline could be significantly different than yours.

But this is about YOU. You already get it...you've learned so much. Your M doesn't define you. Your H doesn't define you. Hell, your kids don't even define you. You are you. You can be who you want to be, happy, free, spontaneous, etc. Yes, this might be easier if you were living by yourself, but there's tradeoffs there too.

I encourage you to run towards happiness. Be who you want to be. Love your family, including H, even if he is broken and confused. Let him know, "yes, I contributed to the brokenness of this M, but I have tried to make amends and work on my issues. Can you say the same?" Maybe even challenge him a little more, "Do you take no responsibility for where we are? Do you really think our M was awesome, and my poor character caused all our problems?"

Really, if he says yes to that last bit, D is likely. Something has got to make him think...if not your words, then maybe your actions. Again, be strong, and be good to yourself.

I think one of the big things I've learned over the last year is individuality. I've learned to be me. Not who my parents shaped, not who I thought I was, not who my W thought I was, but who I am, and who I want to be. This isn't dependent on my W...far from it. I have grown happier and stronger in spite of the hardships my W has put in front of me.

My hope for you, is that you get to the same place. You are worthy of happiness...you deserve it, and you can have it. Your H may be part of it, he may not.

[hopefulinga]

Wow, the MWD post defines my H so well. He keeps saying he's tried, and when I ask what he considers trying, I get no answer. I think trying to him has been to come home and deal with me causing him intentional stress, blah blah blah.

Love your family, including H, even if he is broken and confused. Let him know, "yes, I contributed to the brokenness of this M, but I have tried to make amends and work on my issues. Can you say the same?" Maybe even challenge him a little more, "Do you take no responsibility for where we are? Do you really think our M was awesome, and my poor character caused all our problems?"

I don't know if your H is in a frame of mind to hear any of the above or let it sink in. I also recall that your "challenging" him has been an issue in your marriage. I know that I've said some similar things to my H. I've written him a letter asking for forgiveness, I've told him that I accept my role in the downfall of our marriage, and I could go on.

Right now, your H seems stubborn and stuck. He may be broken and confused. I don't know. I am not a man.

I think you are doing a good job of focusing on you and where you want to be. I had started to wear my wedding ring again and have again taken it off. Why? Because when we got married, my H told me it was a symbol of his never ending love for me, just as there is no end to the ring. I cannot be reminded of that by someone who says they do not love me and is being so cruel to me.

You did a good job with the bookcases today. You upheld your end of the deal and he backed out. Sounds like my H and looking for houses.