Changing Directions

[RegretfulLA]

I get frustrated bc he refuses to be reasonable, and I think he does it on purpose to get to me. I have to remember that's what he's doing and not to fall for it. I did a pretty good job of keeping my cool, like I said, but it's very hard. I don't want to play this game any more, it is all so sad.

So I guess in the spirit of working on me, I have to figure out how to be zen at all costs - a good challenge for me since I tend to run hot.

[hopefulinga]

[quote=RegretfulLA H's whole strategy has been to manipulate me and then whenever I say something he doesn't like, it's "I'm just going to D you" or "I'm just going to move out." I think I kind of HAVE to stand up to him more forcefully at this point because he has been taught in the past (by me) that that kind of behavior/talk/threat will "keep me in line." Ugh. If I walk out, it never gets resolved... but I guess it's something to think about.[/quote]

When you say I wish you wouldn't talk to me like that or I'm not going to let you talk to me that way and walk out, you are setting a boundary. It doesn't sound like the 2 of you are resolving much right now anyway. If you walk away, you are showing him that you are standing up to him. If you say you don't want to be in an R with him if he treats you that way, then you are trying a little manipulation as well. Trust me, I was the queen of manipuluating, or so I thought. That is a veiled threat that you are going to D him if he doesn't get in line.

Right now it sounds like you are both struggling for control. He's not going to see anything that is important to you right now. He's in his own sphere. I agree with Breakdown that if you want to participate, you are going to have to suck it up and bite your tounge. I know it feels like you are being a doormat, but you would also show him that you are not going to fight him.

If he starts an R fight, walk away. He's trying to draw you in and prove that you are the same person you've always been to justify what he is doing.

[RegretfulLA]

You are right Hopeful. I can see the manipulation it now that you point it out like that. Today, it went like this - whatever h said, I just agreed with. I don't even remember the details, I was so unengaged. But I do remember him saying "You don't even understand the English language." So I said, "you're right, I don't.". He just keeps ramping it up, trying to get a reaction, so maybe I need to react even less, like say "I'm sorry you feel that way." He said "Most W's who cheat on their H's have some sort of career to fall back on but not you" and some other thing insinuating that I was some sort of loser, and I think I said, "you're right."

I know it's key to not engage... I actually did walk away during part of the conversation. I also asked him why he hadn't moved out yet if he wanted to so bad. Is that good DB or not? I wasn't hostile or even upset until he threatened to leave without me. I guess my issue is that I am tired of taking the abuse. It makes DB'ing harder. It is harder and harder to just bite my tongue because I feel so unsupported sometimes. I will keep coming here for strength and words of wisdom!

[Breakdown]

I get frustrated bc he refuses to be reasonable...

Who's definition of reasonable are you using? I get it, but remember his side of things.

He said "Most W's who cheat on their H's have some sort of career to fall back on but not you" and some other thing insinuating that I was some sort of loser, and I think I said, "you're right."

Maybe instead of trying to fight the fight here, you try to validate as best you can and leave the rest be.

I know my first reaction here is to engage, to attack and say "hey, I only cheated cause you've been a sh!tty husband" but that's shallow and isn't productive. Avoid it....it doesn't help anyone.

[RegretfulLA]

Reasonable... is it reasonable to leave because your W isn't ready at 11 am on the dot, because she spent the morning doing things for the family like making dinner and folding laundry? I can't see how that would be reasonable in anyone's book. Even H knows it's not reasonable, and I have no idea why he decided to go down that path today. It's not like 5 minutes was going to make any difference. AND, I didn't say this, but H could have helped me fold the clothes instead of standing there insulting me.

I definitely am getting better at not engaging, as angry as he makes me... Now who's pursuing and who's distancing? The more he tangles with me the more I just want out.

[Breakdown]

Reasonable... is it reasonable to leave because your W isn't ready at 11 am on the dot, because she spent the morning doing things for the family like making dinner and folding laundry?

Who's priorities were those and could they have waited? I think I've already made my point on this.

You can't be at this point in your M and expect cooperation. It's just not going to happen. Pick your battles. If I'm you, I'm never going to complain or fight about small stuff...I'm going to save all my "digs" for things that are going to make H think.

I think detaching is good, I think GAL is good, I think deciding to let H figure his own stuff out is good. But I think poking the beehive is polar opposite of these things.

[RegretfulLA]

Sorry Breakdown, I guess I'm just not seeing it as poking the beehive. Help me figure that one out - because I'm having a lot of trouble here. I suppose I can accept that losing my temper when he was about to leave with the boys maybe was...but in a way I feel like he was poking my beehive pretty considerably.

Sometimes I do get cooperation. H does help with things around the house. He went to the store for me last night. He is dropping something off for me tomorrow. He helped me fix my mixer tonight. Etc. It is not always 100% awful.

Priorities - ok, maybe it was MY priority to get the laundry finished. And, as it turned out, it didn't get done b/c H put his foot down and said we had to leave. The fight was not about the laundry. He just wanted to fight.

Furthermore... when H started in with me, I was just minding my own business. Was not asking for help - just asked for a few more minutes to finish up. When he said no, I said that's unreasonable, and then he opened the floodgates on me. So me saying he was being unreasonable was the provocation? Sorry, but isn't it NOT ok for him to pull that crap? It feels not ok for him to be so rigid.

All of a sudden I'm reminded of the "closet night" - a night in Sept 2011 when H asked me to come home early. I told him I couldn't but he wouldn't accept that; called when I was on my way and then there was more traffic than usual. When I got home he was in a foul, cold mood - completely rejecting - and I broke down and sat in the fetal position in my closet. I have written about this night before. It was his rigid stance that reminds me of it now. Maybe he wanted me to prove my love by dropping everything and running home from work, but I couldn't see that then. Maybe now he wanted me to prove my love and loyalty this time by being ready to go at 11 am on the dot. That doesn't feel like a loving act. That feels like manipulation. As spineless as I have been in the last 6 months, I can still see the writing on the wall.

Breakdown, I don't know if you can't see it but I really don't have any hope of H changing anymore. As much as I need to change, he does too if this M is going to work. Our M feels very abusive and I can't play this game anymore. It is going to kill me the same way my old boss almost sucked the life out of me. I stayed in that job for money, security, and fear of not being able to find another job, even though I hated it and wasn't being respected. I am in this M now for money, security and fear of not being able to find another man, even though I dislike my current sitch quite strongly and am not being respected.

We are not friends. We are not partners. We are roommates and co-parents; we are "associates" as a friend of mine puts it.

[labug]

I agree with Breakdown--I've folded lots of laundry in my life and it could have waited. I can see there being a misunderstanding if he had said something iffy like "I want to leave before noon."

2011? You have a lot of resentment built up.

I know Mach challenged you to figure out who you wanted to be and move forward. Is this who you want to be?

So Regretful, what's your next step?

And if you need to leave, leave. Sometimes that has to happen.

[JuneReN]

You've made some pretty big decisions in the past few days and were beginning to move in that direction. BUT...you are still using all the old patterns to engage with H. This is why you are back to feeling like this.

Remember, just because you have gained some clarity and chosen a direction, does not mean he is on board, right? To an extent, I think we all go through this stage, even more than once. We make the changes and then wonder why S hasn't or wonder why, if we are engaging differently they are not?

We are all conditioned to behave in certain ways...especially if patterns in our Rs have been reinforcing theses behaviours, negatively or positively in the years beforehand. Essentially it is why most of us are here. We have recognized or been forced to recognize that what we are doing is not working, and it is not working for you..

IMO, the "women who cheat usually have a career to fall back on" was nasty. How do you know he's right? Does he have stats to back it up? LOL!!! I would not have even answered that one. Or if I had been considering a career I would have said, "I've been thinking of what I would like to work at in the future.." you can not engage and still not take the spew . And you can walk away, like you did.

Also, laundry??? C'mon, Regretful, in our situations, priorities are ourselves, kids, relationships, finances, family, the things that matter. Besides, when it's 4 in the morning and you can't sleep, like the rest of us, THAT is housework time. I love ya Regretful, but you have to come clean about the laundry thing with yourself. At the bottom of it all, what made this so important?

[RegretfulLA]

Ok, I'm going to try beginner's mind here. I'm still not seeing this the way you guys are.

you are still using all the old patterns to engage with H. This is why you are back to feeling like this.

As far as I'm concerned I WAS trying to interact w him differently - the fact that I can't even remember what he was goading me about proves (to me) that I was disengaged. But I guess in the end I didn't fully succeed. The old me would have yelled and screamed a lot more though. The new me tried to stay as calm as possible, but he really started to pressure me, as in, "It's 10:57, you're not ready and we are going." Who does that? Hey, I could understand if there were tickets or something involved but in this case - there weren't.

I love ya Regretful, but you have to come clean about the laundry thing with yourself. At the bottom of it all, what made this so important?

The laundry: I do have a need to FINISH things. Wanted to finish it before we left. If it had been my choice, I would have finished folding the clothes, emptied the dishwasher and put away my oh-so-deluxe pull-out bed before we left.

Also, thinking about it more... I think I felt disrespected (him not respecting my need to spend 5 more minutes so I could finish) and some of the things he was saying to me were making me feel guilty, so I was also reacting to that.

IMO, the "women who cheat usually have a career to fall back on" was nasty. How do you know he's right?

The comments - women who cheat usually have a career to fall back on, you don't understand the English language, you're not that welcome at my parents house - and whatever else he said that I honestly wasn't paying attention to - well that was his way of just trying to get under my skin. I said, "You're right" because I was just trying to deflect it, NOT engage.

2011? You have a lot of resentment built up.

Yes. Yes I do. This particular incident stands out in my mind as one of the most terrible days of my life. You want to see my cry on cue, all I have to do is think about that night for about 10 seconds. I probably should be working on this in therapy.

So, someone please tell me, how, specifically, could I/should I have acted differently in this situation? I actually thought I did pretty well, but I ended up feeling angry and abused. He was trying to provoke me and it worked. So, what other than deflecting and walking away could I have done? See, when I deflect and walk away and try not to react, it makes him madder and he does it more, until I react. And I guess when I finally called him an a$$hole he got what he wanted because it was only then that he relented. Interesting to think about it that way.