From Survivng to Thriving & backslides in between.

[exquisitetobe]

I have thought about what makes them attracted to eachother.. I came up with two different scenarios... In my case with my ex, he is trying to fix himself so he has picked up someone like him... Controlling, manipulative, very outspoken and hurtfull OR, someone totally opposite of me since in his mind, he wasn' t happy with me, why would he pick up another me... The funny thing is i see him trying to change her into me and he is treated like he treated me ...lol They are [censored] up and trying to fix eachother... My ex still reflect his fights with her onto me... They are both very unhappy, on and off.. They are addicted to their fantasy...

[Delboy]

Just my reply to the following quote: ‘Who does anybody get when they're first infatuated? They get what they're looking for - they don't see the real person, just the fantasy.’

A few years ago now, my elder bro was working with a woman. And she said she had walked away from her husband cos she had started an affair and wanted to be with the new man. But after about 5 years had passed she said she wished she had stayed with her Ex husband. Why? Because she said, her and her new husband keep looking over their shoulders because they don’t trust each other! New husband was keeping close tabs on her!

Love
Delboy

[Kimmerz]

Hello All,

Really good responses and posts everyone, thanks! Great insights.

You know My aunt had a pretty interesting perspectie on XH and OW last night. I don't talk to her much about how I really feel this is MLC with XH. She see's his behaviors how everyone else see's the behavior, but she's convinced this is how he's been all his life.

She see's how he's acting opposite in his choices, mainly piking OW so different than I am. In her opinion she felt that the reason he appears to put up with her obnoxious behavior is that he doesn't truly care about her and her nor him.They're just using eachother... well like it's been said here before. She took on Snodderly's perspective and said they were just more like room mates, companions, some body to have around because they can't stand to be alone, and F&CK Buddies, or in her opinion OW just "services" XH.

Yes OW's poor XH. Funny how I can find forgiveness towards a man that damn near killed my husband, yet trying to find forgiveness towards now XH is something that's probabaly going to take me years to fully achieve. I've found that I do reach that place from time to time, but it tends to be temporary. I reach that place when he leaves me alone. I've found that I can extend that peace, if I keep the No Contact rule for MYSELF and MY SANITY.

Another thing dawned on me today... you know for all this blaming and accusations they place on us about how we've just ruined their worlds...well they sure give us alot of power, don't they? I mean seriously, in their eyes we just have the power to control everything! They're happiness, our children, their finances, if the wind blows from the North or South... I mean really!! I got to thinking... Gee. If we really had all that control, would we even be here in this MLC hell ?

In my opinion it's nothing but a projection from them. A pathetic attempt to blame someone else about the lack of control the personlly feel they no longer have over their own lives.

[job]

Kimmerz,
You've been doing a lot of thinking lately and yes, your aunt is spot on. They are nothing more than roommates and they tend to fill a void or need for each other. I can't tell you the number of times I was told that they act like roommates versus lovers or a real couple. They can't stand to be alone. If the op is not w/them, they will find someone else to do things w/them. They very seldom do things alone. They are just using each other and when the well is dry, that is when the real "fun" begins for them. That's when we need to step way back and allow them to see each other in the light of day, warts and all.

Yes, we do have the power to control and manipulate according to them. If that were the case, we wouldn't be where we are today dealing w/mlc. Yes, it is entirely projection and it takes them a very long time to see the light.

Please leave the mlc monster outside for the next couple of days and enjoy the holidays w/your family. Hopefully after the holidays your xh will settle down and you will have little or no contact w/him.

Merry Christmas!

[AJM]

::Long post alert::

I can't tell you the number of times I was told that they act like roommates versus lovers or a real couple. They can't stand to be alone. If the op is not w/them, they will find someone else to do things w/them. They very seldom do things alone. They are just using each other..

Yep. Same here. I actually ran into the happy couple a while back at the movies. They almost sat in my lap! But it was very much like Snodderly describes - like roommates or friends vs. a couple. There was a lot of tension long before they even got into the seats next to each other. If I'm honest about it, it was like a couple of co-workers. If I didn't know who it was, I would have sworn they were father and daughter.

I knew that from the beginning though. I saw how my ex first went after opposites (to me), then similar and then broken opposites when that didn't work out. She targeted men at the end of their marriages (or more accurately, having difficulties she then helped them to end them for several men.)

I also get accused of the manipulation and control. Even now. I get accusations and anger from her. Conflicting behaviors, incomplete sentences and then more accusations from her, sometimes late at night. I read that as her trying to figure herself out with me as a backdrop.

It's obvious she wasn't happy with herself or her decisions. She may have some sort of brief "happiness episodes", but it seems she isn't done "baking" yet. That made it harder on me. I posted a few times about how it's been harder that she left, but won't "leave". I've seen other divorced couples and how they do it, and it can be very different. Does kind of remind of me of Darius Rucker's 'All I Want' song

Recently my sister was diagnosed with brain cancer. That happened just after we buried my grandfather (like a father to me when my mom was sick and died when I was a teen) earlier this year. That leaves me to take over my grandmother's finances and much of her health care from across the country while also looking out for my sister and her family to some degree (my BIL is awesome and so are my nephews and niece). She had surgery for the one in her neck and is recovering, but there's more, right? My senior vp at work decided that he doesn't like me and my former manager is keeping his distance in it. The senior vp is taking steps to get me to leave. Since I have a stellar record he can't fire me yet. It's a personal thing with him for some reason.

After my ex found out about the funeral, she sent me a sympathy note as did her mom and her SIL. There was a time that would drive me crazy.

My son is struggling in school. Just before my ex got married to OM, I mentioned to her (via email) that it was time we consider co-parenting. She would have none of it and accused me of all kinds of other things. Cheating, being narcissistic, etc. and decided she wants to be a single parent. My daughter still doesn't talk to me because of ex and ex-MIL. (Ex MIL is one of those that needs to be plugged into the wall and shocked every 30 seconds until human )

I work 50-70 hours a week and have on-call responsibilities if something goes wrong. I have also returned to school, volunteer my time at Church as a board member and a teacher of middle school kids, and also with a local charity.

I may have over done the GAL advice Life happens.

What occurred to me during these last few months, and I mean really sunk in, is that I cannot continue to communicate with ex. I just don't have the bandwidth to communicate with her. It's something that while I care that she is ok, I just cannot help her in any way shape or form. I have enough information to know that I cannot tell her anything: She decided she doesn't trust me, that I'm a bi-polar narcissist, and that I have no shred of decency left. Ogre is the more popular term I believe

So I stopped responding. I dropped everything with her to focus on me and my life and my son's and gave up on the idea that we can co-parent in any way. That's been a relief actually. Know what has been happening? She has sent me an email of some sort (any excuse will do I guess) every week for the past 8+ weeks including informational and threatening as well as accusatory. It escalates.

It occurred to me a long time ago that it wasn't right that I had to be the one to leave her when she's the one that left me and the kids. But honestly, I can't be part of her life. I did try to co-parent with her. I tried many times and swallowed my pride to do it. But it's not because of her and her drama. It's because I just can't do it any longer for any reason. I've been "done" many times but looking back it's more like those were stages of doneness. Like rare, medium-rare, etc... it's a process.

And because of that, the emails don't bother me like they used to. I see them differently yet again. It used to be I saw them as her trying to hurt me and trying to stay "connected" in some way. They were in part, intended for that purpose. But I took it more personal than I would like to admit. I was more hurt than I should be at this point. That was earlier in the year. That was when I would allow her to try and manipulate and hurt. After getting to the point of not being able to care about things like that, I began to see something different.

I thought I was done. I wasn't, I was just healing. I had accepted, but was still hurt. I was functioning but not whole. I still have some healthy caution because she tries to reach into my life on a regular basis. But I see it very differently. I see her pain and hurt, but I also see her trying to figure herself out. I have compassion for her, but not any more than I do for a person that is not well known to me. Maybe more like an old friend that I've lost touch with. I care, but I don't have a direct involvement. I wish her well and I wish her the chance to heal herself and be forgiven but I don't have the capacity to watch or be involved.

I've learned a lot from this experience. I grieve for my grandfather and now my grandmother's pain. I grieve for my sisters struggle. I grieve for my own pain and that of my father at my sister's health issues. But I'm not unhappy. In fact, even with a full plate, I feel there is more to be done and a short time to do it. I am optimistic by nature and wake up happy every morning. I see balance. I don't see the evil of it, but rather I understand and accept that these things happen. I've always been that way since my mother died.

I look to some of the old-timer's in my life. My dad's step-dad. He's a good man and a great example of how to take care of yourself - he's 92 and runs daily, works out three times a week, and plays in a band. He's a very strong and optimistic man. My father, even with his health issues, is very optimistic and always has been. I come from a long line of optimists

Last story, since it's Christmas and Delboy reminded me of this story. My Aunt (no blood relation - Uncle's first wife), left my uncle when in their late thirties. That was about thirty years ago. She recently came to visit my sister with my uncle and dad's step dad. My sister related part of their conversation. A few years back (about 10?) my aunt and uncle started talking again. My aunt had gone through brain surgery to remove a tumor that affected her emotions. Go figure. She related to my uncle she thought that was what the issue was for her. They are both remarried for 25 years now. But they are very good friends now. That wasn't the case when she left. She related to my sister that although she is happy, she really suffered. She lost her first husband (my uncle), her family, her friends, her home, etc. It was devastating to her. Now.

Her's is a rare case in that there was a physical issue that contributed to her decisions. They were still hers and she knows that. And although happy, she has regrets and a lot of pain to deal with. My cousins have scars as well.

I had another uncle that his first wife did similar and he cheated on her before it was over. They never spoke again and the kids were never able to forgive him (Grandmother's brother).

My point? There's a lot going in life. Live it and don't miss out on things because of somebody else and their choices. We don't know the reasons why. We do know they are suffering as well, so have compassion. But don't get mired down in it, K. Realize you just can't fix it for them. You can't help. You also can't think that you're better than them because you didn't do the things they did. It could happen to you.

You can't wait for him to "wake up" - he may not. It could be a ton of years before your ex figures it out. Or he may never figure it out. As somebody once said, (M Go Blue I think) we'll continue to make the same mistakes until we learn the lessons we need to learn and become wholly human and mature. Even if you have to be part of their healing (heal yourself first right?), be strong and allow it if you can. Don't beat yourself up if you cannot. Don't allow them to intrude on your life and your sanity. That doesn't help anyone in the least.

Have a Merry Christmas, K. Try to let things go, relax, and enjoy the time of year and your kids. Analyzing these things with family can be helpful sometimes but be careful. Part of the healing to talk about it, but life is good and there is a lot to celebrate and a lot to build; don't spend too much time with it. And don't let thoughts of your ex or other people's hurt because of him, affect your good times.

Life is good. As we head into the new year (the mayans were wrong!) I'm grateful for my life and my experiences. I'm reminded that there are struggles and happy times. There always are and they help keep life interesting. We always need both to keep us balanced.

Lead by example and let your light shine, K. I have been rooting for you for a very long time and really appreciate your posts and the conversations. I feel I've found another sister on this journey. Snodderly's advice too

I wonder about Snodderly's screen name. Snodderly, what's the background on the name? Is there a story as to how you created it?


Peace,
AJ

[job]

AJM,
I am so sorry for all the trials and tributions that you have faced and continue to face. I will keep your sister in my thoughts and prayers. You have more than earned your wings and halo.

No secret about my Poster Name...it is my last name. It is German. However, I am not of German origin. I am of English/Irish origin.

Merry Christmas to you and your family.

[AJM]

Thanks Snodderly.. It's funny how life is sometimes. I'm not sorry for the way my life is - I do worry about my sister and I appreciate the prayers.
The trials are just part of life and remind me that it's short and well worth living. I meet people all the time that have it much tougher (here in some cases). I'm not sorry I get that chance in part because of the gift my ex gave me. I posted much about my life in hopes of illustrating that and my appreciation

Merry Christmas!

I'm off to get the ingredients to bake some cookies for the kids across the street to give to Santa. They're very sweet kids and a lot of fun. I'm also trying to fatten their parents up (oreo stuffed chocolate chip cookies should do the trick)

AJ

[job]

AJM,
I do understand what you are saying and yes, life is very short and we need to live it to the fullest. I'm sure you've got a lot on your plate, i.e., worrying about your sister.

Speaking of gifts that the mlcer gives us, I was very lucky that my xh flew the coop when he did. I was given the gift of time well spent w/my BIL and my father before they both passed on. It was true quality time and I will always treasure the time that I spent w/both of them.

Sounds like you are going to be busy today baking cookies. That is a very sweet gesture that you are doing for the kids across the street. I seriously doubt that Santa will many of them tonight. LOL!

Well, I've had the usual call on Christmas Eve, i.e., "private name/private caller". It has happened every year since he left. I just chuckled.

Enjoy your baking and don't sample too many of them yourself! LOL!

[Kimmerz]

Wow ......

(((((((AJ)))))))


Thank you for taking the time to write such a heartfelt and honest post. Really, thank you. It's like a Christmas Present!

AJ, I had no idea you had so much going on, thank you for sharing.

It's clear what kind of man you are, and how much you mean to your family. You being there for those that need you in such stressful times. And I bet you just pull it off without a glitch, smiling and comforting to all.

I've been in the position of being conservator and guardian for my grandmother when my mother unexpectedly died 7 years ago. After a few years I eventually handed that responsibility over to my Aunt. My grandmother is 92, and amazingly still alive. She's not in as good as shape as your grandfather. Her dementia is full blown, and she no longer can walk, and needs to be fed. But what's so beautiful about seeing her, is that even though she can't hardly articulate the words, she knows it's me. Seeing that is the best gift my grandma could ever give me in this lifetime.

I like the idea of "not having the bandwith to communicate" . This is how I feel about my XH now. I too have tried to co parent. I too have swallowed my pride, let things pass and just busted butt to get along. Yet in the long run all it gets me is the same insanity no matter how hard I tried to be the bigger person .

All in all, like you AJ who would've thought I'd have to leave the XH after he was the one that left me. But that's how its working for me. And truthfully this is the hardest thing I've ever had to do but I know it's what has to be done. As long as he continues to fly on his magic carpet ride of denial and projection, there is nothing left.

At any rate, on a happier note, I got to spend the day doing last minute shopping yesterday for the girls. It was nice. I still might do a little today if I get the chance.They will spend tonight with their Dad and come back tomorrow. I do have to work tomorrow. The perk of that is, I get paid time and a half, and get Prime Rib for lunch tomorrow at work. Not half bad. I still get to come home in the early afternoon, and then spend the rest of Christmas with the girls.

[Kimmerz]

Snodderly, did you answer the phone?