Changing Directions

[Breakdown]

Funnily enough, H is starting to complain about my GAL. I find that kind of hilarious.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if the cry to "move out" is just a control ploy. I'll be interested to see what happens over the next few weeks.

In the meantime, keep that GAL going!

[mamabird]

Well, he actually said that it wasn't the GAL he was complaining about, it was the fact that I didn't "clear" it with him in advance. I'm not in the habit of asking permission to go to lunch I guess.

Breakdown, I really would like him to move out, as it turns out. Someone asked me last night, won't it be weird not knowing what's coming? I told her, "It's weirder now, not knowing what's coming. At least if I'm on my own I'll have a little more control over my own life."

[25yearsmlc]

One of the things I'm trying to work on is turning anger/resentment/hatred/fury into compassion. I realize all those things are negative and draining; they are valid feelings but I think to wallow in them is harmful.

It is very harmful to wallow in any negative emotion. And you know what? Life is short! Wallow in glory and love and forgiveness and laughter & happiness...

--- I think it's probably healthiest for me to try to be a little more zen about all of this... so I can start to move on and feel whole again.

But yes Floyd, H is confused, that is clear. When he said, "I don't care what you do" (when I said maybe I wanted to date other people), that was a clear sign to me that he is not over it.

Ah- but your question about dating others was a PAINFUL thing for him to hear. He just said HE wasn't ready to date, but then you made it abundantly clear you are (or thought so).

So he hurt back...and of course it's not true that he doesn't care. It's also probably not true that he won't date. (He may already be for all we know). But I would not take his comment as an attack so much as a reaction to yours...

But, that's his own path to travel. --

yes. We each have our own, individual paths to follow. You do too.

I think we have more centeredness when we know we're on our path, even if it's bumpy. It's the authentic route to US...whereas being on someone else's path, or just the wrong one, always feels uncomfortable even when it's going smoothly, b/c it's not authentic for us.

I think you'll feel better, down the road, going your own way for now. IF, and I mean this, IF there is a way back to each other -it seems you each have to find it by going in another direction first. Hope this makes sense.


This is shameful as far as I am concerned. I am embarrassed to be married to someone like this, but I also feel sorry for him that he is so wrapped up in his own hurt, his own depression, his own story, that this is the way he feels he has to act.

^^^ NOT your problem or responsibility or anything for YOU to be embarrassed about. Forget it. Not your issue. Not in your "Jurisdiction".'

Long ago I went to a WONDERFUL workshop on the east coast called Essential Experience. And I had a problem beforehand, with boundaries. As a L, at the workshop I came to realize that for ME, a boundary could be seen as a state's border. For example, In South Carolina, the lawmakers don't sit around wondering what laws they should pass in Iowa.

If they did, the Iowans would scoff and say "who are YOU to tell US what laws to apply to OUR people??" Some states allow tobacco sales to 16 y/o and other states don't, and some states have gambling and others don't, etc.

Your h's issues are in his "jurisdiction" and do not HAVE to affect you at all.

Stay in your state (or sandbox) and out of his. You'll both be happier in the long run.


Bless his heart. It is sad, and I told him I thought so in our last (probably final) therapy session.

hmmm^^^...have to wonder what the goal was in saying that.

Why not keep your focus on YOURSELF, your work, your jurisdiction...

and model that for HIM to follow? God knows your h has no healthy role models.

I echo what others have said about you not dating any time soon.

With all the growth potential I hear in your words, it would reek of co-dependence and neediness if you began dating soon...and doesn't sound too fair to OMs either.

You needing OM to "feel good" about yourself or your life...

read those words^^, and ask yourself if the woman you want to become, would feel that way or write that. We know she would not.

Sorry but that's the take I have on it.

I have faith in where you are headed...just don't fall off YOUR newfound path.

You really will be alright alone for awhile...

and in the long run, you'll be a lot better off - if you are alone for awhile...

((( )))

[mamabird]

25, I know I will be fine alone... I just keep thinking of that HOT guy!!! I really do not want to be in another R but I definitely wouldn't mind THAT guy hanging around!!!!!!! Sorry, I am just a little deprived right now and it was such a thrill to have him flirting with me! I am not used to that kind of attention, but I do find myself flirting a lot more now. It was like going from a desert wasteland to an ocean paradise in the blink of an eye so don't fault me... I gotta indulge my fantasies here! In the long run, though, I know I have to do my own thing for a while.

Agree that H and I definitely have to go our separate ways now if there is any chance of coming back together. It seems so obvious now, and getting more obvious every day. But I've definitely detached a good deal because now, when we encounter a difficult situation, it's almost like I'm on the outside looking in instead of experiencing being the one on the other side of the table.

Tonight we had a weird discussion. I have no idea where his head is. We were talking about all the improvements that have to be done to the house and the things we need. He wants a lawn, I want furniture. He wants to replace the couch we have, I think it can wait. It is clear that he has no idea how to talk to me because he still puts me down, thinking (I guess) that will help him get his way. This time, I told him that I didn't like the way he talked to me, and he actually said, "I can say whatever I want because I'm frustrated." Then I had to tell the boys, who were listening, "It is not ok for Daddy to speak to Mommy like that." I find myself doing that more and more and more. They must be very confused.

Aside from that, I found it odd that he wanted to engage with me on the house and the improvements that it needs... as if he's either a) not moving out or b) planning on moving out and then coming back at some point, and it's business as usual. I would have expected a different conversation, I guess. This kind of interaction was par for the course in our M, so it's no wonder I was so unhappy. Without the detachment, I would have felt powerless and frustrated, but instead I just calmly told him I didn't want to be in an R with someone who treats me that way.

[hopefulinga]

LA, we went through the same talks about the house. In July, H let me paint the den in the colors that I wanted. At that time, I thought that clearly he didn't want to D if he wold let me do that. And he let me put my name on the Mustang. But, alas, look where I am 5 months later. I think while you are under the same roof, it is easy to still talk about what you would be doing if this wasn't going on.

I don't know if I would tell him that you don't want to be in an R with someone who treats you that way. I would maybe say something to the effect that you will not be spoken to that way and will return when he can treat you with respect and walk away. Your kids will figure it out. My D has revealed that she doesn't like when H yells at me and is afraid he will do it again. When a discussion starts, she puts her hands over her ears.

It sounds like you are starting to make some positive moves on focusing on you. Keep it up!

[Breakdown]

...he actually said, "I can say whatever I want because I'm frustrated."

Again, hits close to home. I remember that. I think you handled it ok, but personally I would have prodded him a little and said something like "Yes, you can, but is that how you want to represent yourself to the world...or how you want to teach our children to deal with frustration?"

Whether he realizes it or not, he's teaching your children not only how to cope, but how to treat their spouses. It's a terrible cycle.

Aside from that, I found it odd that he wanted to engage with me on the house and the improvements that it needs...

In order to sell your house, you'll likely want to spruce it up and fix all the things that have been waiting. That could be his direction just as easily.

[mamabird]

I don't know if I would tell him that you don't want to be in an R with someone who treats you that way. I would maybe say something to the effect that you will not be spoken to that way and will return when he can treat you with respect and walk away.

Hopeful, I think I kind of disagree... don't forget, H's whole strategy has been to manipulate me and then whenever I say something he doesn't like, it's "I'm just going to D you" or "I'm just going to move out." I think I kind of HAVE to stand up to him more forcefully at this point because he has been taught in the past (by me) that that kind of behavior/talk/threat will "keep me in line." Ugh. If I walk out, it never gets resolved... but I guess it's something to think about.

Again, hits close to home. I remember that. I think you handled it ok, but personally I would have prodded him a little and said something like "Yes, you can, but is that how you want to represent yourself to the world...or how you want to teach our children to deal with frustration?"

I think that's pretty good advice - to push further. The boys basically ran off as soon as we got into the discussion, but I know it makes them uncomfortable.

Whether he realizes it or not, he's teaching your children not only how to cope, but how to treat their spouses. It's a terrible cycle.

I'm already seeing S9 do a little bit of the head in the sand thing. I have to prod him not to "quit" when he gets frustrated, and last night he actually walked into a closet when I was trying to talk to him about his behavior with his brother. I guess that's regular 9 YO behavior, but still, I want both of my sons to have an education on how you deal with other people.

I'm becoming more and more aware of the modeling that is going on for my boys and that is one of the reasons I'm getting anxious for H to move out.

About the house... we are talking about furniture too. It's odd. There's not much that needs to be "fixed" since we just moved in a year ago.

It's getting harder and harder to be around him, I do know that. I have pulled back significantly, which I think is the best thing, but it makes for a lot of tension around the house.

[mamabird]

Now I need some advice on how to deal w H. Today, we are going up to visit his dad. He said he wanted to leave at 11. I said I would try to be ready by then. He said, "what does that mean?". I didn't answer.

Spent the am making soup for dinner, folding laundry. When it got to be close to 11 H started pressuring me. "if you're not ready by 11 we're leaving. You're not that welcome at my parents house anyway." He knew I wasn't ready. I asked him to wait 5 minutes so I could finish folding the clothes. "No. I said we were leaving at 11." Doesn't matter that it's important to ME to just finish it.

This was also in the midst of a R fight that he started, bringing up all kinds of sh!t that has nothing to do with anything current. I did a good job of keeping my cool until he piled the boys into the car and said "We're leaving.". Then I lost it.

I am so exasperated, please help me figure out how to deal with this. Do we think it could be a reaction to my detachment? Help, help, help.

[mamabird]

I really am done... Every time something like this happens I feel more and more done...

[Breakdown]

Honestly, that sounds like you were both playing a little chicken there....not productive on either of your parts, but I think you've got to take the higher road here. I don't mean bend to his will, but honestly, that's pretty small stuff to get in an argument about. You guys aren't working together, so if you want to participate in these type things, I'd just go with the flow. If laundry was more important, then I'd have just told him you were staying. If not, put it aside til later.

With regards to R talk, I'd simply refuse to have those discussions until after the holiday, and even then, I'd refuse unless he was calm. His emotions are all over the place...he's confused and scared. He's lashing out to get a reaction, to put himself in control, and protect himself all at the same time. You aren't being pushed around or controlled nearly as easily, so he pushes harder. In the back of his mind he is screaming "WTH is going on!"

This is tough stuff and you've got to use whatever you need to get there. Take a walk, remind yourself your kids are watching/listening, come vent on these boards, etc.

Hang in there...it will get better.