What I am learning from H stages.

[nero]

hey hi-

you know, sadly- i pretty much know i'm alot of hot air when i'm being such a "tough talker". I got nothin- and i know it. (i hate it- but i know it) it somehow fortifies me sometimes to talk like i actually think i've got some power. unfortunately- the person who cares less holds all the cards. uh hem - that would be h.

i hate to admit it- i hate to care (whatever bit i still do) - Even tho there seems to be peace in the valley - it's just a bad sitch and not looking brighter any time soon.

I just feel incredibly discouraged today - deleted rest - i'm going to spare you in the name of christmas mercy...

like you- i just want to feel happy again. there sure is no justice in this mlc junk.

if you really are so sure you don't want h - then i'd thnk that is something major for you to know. no? it is sad - i'm with your son. i feel bad for the kids as well as you. thank goodness you all have each other.

i shopped a bit- it was ok - made me a bit depressed. oh well- another day gone by. i apologize for that sentiment- there are probably millions of people less fortunate than me and they're plugging alonw quite nicely.

okay- i'll go quit being a whining jackA_s and do something here. ta da!!!

h called in the morning- from the flea market about something he was buying- all perky and like he and i are buds. i can't understand that bit- how he can just be acting like it's allll okay. i know i'm acting "as if" because i'm supposed to be - but what's he doing and why???

why is he even st5riving for normalcy - when he's the one queering the deal? if he wants it to be "like normal" then he can just stop being a jerk and get back to normal any old time.

YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY correct that the assumptions are killers -

i don't have one thing to say that is worth reading- guess i'll go finish painting these things and do some glitter. we loooooove glitter. no spirit- but i'm acting "as if" - ta da.

thanks for writing- hope your day was good - xxo ((( )))

if i won a million dollars tomorrow - the only thing i'd do probably different would be buy him out so i never have to worry about my "future" - at least when it came to a roof over my head and my own space. then - - i guess i'd see if he asked to be able to come visit. ??!! have to wonder if he had no power how it would hit him???

he's used to being the guy with the bread - and i'm just the damn - , what? hump on his back i guess. oh well- it would be nice to never have to stew over $$ again- and KNOW i would always have my own place. ta da!Q

i swear - my aspirations are sooo small ... well, maybe a cottage in england & help my neice with college - well, maybe finish myself- well, etc etc etc....

xxoo (())

[albamarie]

YEs, we have that cottage in England in common. I actually dream about it and all the wildflowers in the back yard, with rod iron benches.

if you really are so sure you don't want h - then i'd thnk that is something major for you to know. no?
I really don't! He is not what I need as a mate, he just doesn't have it, it being, an appreciation for life, respect for people, respect for himself, personal strength, humility, faithfulness to me, you get that I can go on, but I won't!

YOur so right when you wrote; H said he was down in Fl mostly by himself and only limited time w/ow. You said anytime with ow is unacceptable! Hell yes, they don't get it! My h says well I only talk to ea about 2x a wk now - so hell that makes it all F*** peachy keen! I said if she was dying in the street and you said ''good-by'' it would be too much for me!

They don't get that it's the disrespect, humiliation, anger, intrusion, even jealousy, not the she's better than me kind, but the why the hell do you open your life and thoughts to another woman. THat's ours!

I have told him he will loose me but I don't think it works. I think he will loose me before stop talking to her because I don't give him that wanna-be bad boy rush into fantasy land.

As long as he is addicted to the fantasy, in need of the image, craving change anyway he can get it, her world is more appealing. She's fun, she's loud, life of the party, strong personality, doesn't give a sh!t about anything, lives poor and on the beach. He calls a sliver of food she gives him a blessing with more meaning than coming home to a full fridge.

He has brought her food and she has thrown it across the street yelling stop coming around me in front of her friends. He finds that strength in her encouraging.

So yes, 18 months of this has really taught me that I don't want to be with my H because of the man he has become. Today his anger was so intense I don't understand how he doesn't have a heart attack or burrow right into the ground like in cartoons. He was shaking angry over, life!

Never at me or the family but just burning were he stands! He's going to combust or something eventually. He eats like a 16yr old boy, junk food, fast food, candy, and now he itches really bad, I swear I think an attack is imminent. I read MWD says mlc'er itch alot.

It's all way too sickening for me to live with anymore. It really is approaching beyond the bearable point. There would have to be a miracle, this sounds bad but maybe an attack would be just that, at least he can get evaluated, or have an epiphany

I'm not trying to get a D, but I really want to have some separation time. Is it possible, who knows, but I think it would be better for both of us to respectfully agree to do this for ourselves and see where we end up.

He says kick him out but I can't, he's sick and has nowhere to go, it will make him worse, he will suffer through anything, even lack of bath, food and warmth. Is this me coddling him? Let me know. But, I can say it is not me trying to avoid the sitch.

I don't know anything right now, just push forward day by day, try to always GAL everyday, be kind, be available, and be pissed off at times.

Sorry this is so long but talking about not wanting a spouse in your life even temp. does deserves some explanation and truth. I L my h, but I'm NIL with him anymore, that is very gone and he would have some hard work ahead of him to bring that out in me again

[nero]

hey hi-

iknow i say it allll the time- but i cannot get over how your thoughts mirror my own. it's true - they just do not "get it" - it's so all about them- i hate it that after all these years & experiences togethr- it's only THEM in the forefront of their mind. if i had children i'd be ballistic allll the time- "protecting" those innocence (at ANY age-) from this callous treatment. just being a woman i guess- we got the nurture thing going on - it's sad but true.

i get stuck about here- thinking he never will- and then thinking also - simulatneously- that they both are soooo step by step with this darn book (i swear- some days i rue the day i picked it up) and then i think, perhaps her statistics are something to give one hope for h coming out of the end of this - some kind of return to "normal". i'm not sure that hope & book are a good thing- ???? these-a-days...

They don't get that it's the disrespect, humiliation, anger, intrusion, even jealousy, not the she's better than me kind, but the why the hell do you open your life and thoughts to another woman. THat's ours!

i know

I have told him he will loose me but I don't think it works. I think he will loose me before stop talking to her because I don't give him that wanna-be bad boy rush into fantasy land.

i think you're rite. i don't say it- becasue always my spiel was that i don't "share" - so if you've got someone else (ever) just let me know and adios. well, he didn't let me know- he just lied & lied. my h too- i see hm doing the same darn thing- one has to wonder at what point in their stupid lives they will have the lite bulb go on in thei5r brains (after we're long gone) and realize what a screw up it all was??? probably when they're ancient...

as i write this- it occurs to me that part of the "thing" with my H and this ow is that he "was helping her thru her divorce". i want to vomit when i repeat it- i am embarassed for his stupidity and callous-ness. he OBVIOUSLY needs to feel like the savior- this is the man whose told me a million times he loves that i'm not "needy" and not a "clingy" woman- ta da.... he obviously needs the rush of being the guy "helping" her- yeah rite- helping her get _ _ _ _ _ _ .

okay- stepping back from murderous rage here- it could pop out, but too much trouble to allow it - too tired of this junk...

Never at me or the family but just burning were he stands! He's going to combust or something eventually. He eats like a 16yr old boy, junk food, fast food, candy, and now he itches really bad, I swear I think an attack is imminent. I read MWD says mlc'er itch alot.

GEEEZ = What the heck is that? itching??? i hate the anger in him thing- i'm sorry you've got to look at it. i hate it when h gets "angry" - he is soooo childish and unappealing. he bites his teeth together and talks thru them- i feel nothing - it's like a stupid act to me (maybe i should have more respect for his feelings-actions????? ) i don't know- when he has a temper tantrum i just want to slap his face and say grow up and walk away. somehow it's so exaggerated and i've never ever seen this side of him before - in 35 years - i swear!!! it's like a bad joke. like a petulent child- it makes me shut off and look at him like a stranger. he is a stranger then. it's sooooo icky and beneath what i used to think of him. every time he gets "angry" and acts like that- i feel my esteem slip one tiny notch.

if i'm honest- i'm a harmless "go nuts" kinda person. no one in the universe is afraid of me or my "yelling". it's a joke- i don't know why- i'm just not scary. (sometimes i wish i could strike terror in someone's heart)

So yes, 18 months of this has really taught me that I don't want to be with my H because of the man he has become. Today his anger was so intense I don't understand how he doesn't have a heart attack or burrow right into the ground like in cartoons. He was shaking angry over, life!

GOD - i can't believe it. i have known about this amount of time also -about this being a full fledged affair- how freaky is it - our "timelines". my h does not speak about her other than they're "good friends". he can go straight to f'ing He_l. really..... how he thinks what he says means something to me- i cannot imagein. i don't give a rat's ass- said in beginning and still feel it- they can both get in a car and die in a firey crash for all i care - together forever- in each other's arms. he thinks i'm soooooo0000 mean... how can i "pick on him" and "call him names". hellloooo- would someone tell him we're not in the first grade here???? forgot about this- he is soooo mentally challenged at this time- wonder if it will ever pass or that is who he's always been. i'm not sure becasue it's so stupid i would surely have seen it??? (case for being "insane" at moment) i guess.

i am amazed about your h's anger - at life! what the heck? i am very glad it's not directed at you or the kids. i'd think alot of men go there and it's got to be just awful- and scary.

God only knows how long and what before that it's gone on (with my h) . honestly- i think for a long time maybe - and that makes me sick and say (why bother even trying to know this guy???) i am not sure how it fits into mwd's mlc thing - the parameters may be all different for my sitch. i may only know for 18 months (for sure & real) - but in retrospect- the treatment and his actions- i'm thinking 4 or 5 yrs??? could it be? and how gross & disgusting is that?????

and how gross does it make me to even know this man still - knowing that??? one has to wonder.

It's all way too sickening for me to live with anymore. It really is approaching beyond the bearable point. There would have to be a miracle, this sounds bad but maybe an attack would be just that, at least he can get evaluated, or have an epiphany cry

OKAY- this is true. i typed the above paragraph - BEFORE i read your last comment that i've pasted above - talk about being "on the same page" emotionally. it is sickening- that's exactly what i'm thinking and feeling. oh geeeez -

i can't imagine my h having any kind of "attack" - it's a war of atrition- i think he'll just wear me out til i go away- no fanfare- a wimper - and i'll clear out someday because he hasn't got the guts to DO anything- commit or clear out.

He says kick him out but I can't, he's sick and has nowhere to go, it will make him worse, he will suffer through anything, even lack of bath, food and warmth. Is this me coddling him? Let me know. But, I can say it is not me trying to avoid the sitch.

This is my honest truth - from my angle. i don't think you are "coddling" him. and you are "facing" the sitch head on and trying like heck to use mwd's system to "give it every possible chance - give him every possible chance - before you let your pride & anger & hurt make you take steps that both of you may regret forever". that is how i feel - that is what i think i see in you. it is what i see in me- not "giving up without a fight". for whatever reason- we don't feel justified or willing to just toss it up without 2nd, 3rd, etc. "chances".


REMEMBER your lighthouse thing that always pops up and keeps me from going off some deep end- well- my dear - THAT. THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE DOING HERE. NOTHING MORE, NOTHING LESS. Mee too- and everyone else.

YOU ARE a woman who can value what she had and see it for what it was. i waiver in that sometimes- you yank me back onto the track and say" let it have been good- don't second guess what it was and all the happy times". In the memory of those times- you and I are fighting like he_l the urge to stop and run and (i'm going to lump you with me here- so it may or may not fit- you see and act accordingly) try and "stick it out" til we are in danger ourselves. at that point- it would be time to throw in the towel - if you feel your mental state becoming in danger- or your health, you get my drift.

AS i'm typing this to you- i'm thinknig it's what i'm "doing here". it's what we're all "doing here" - trying to give this thing that is (was) the best & most important thing in our lives - it's fullest opportunity to recover. (whatever "recover" means in context of this mlc mess).

it's like fighting a deadly disease - are you a person who takes any & all treatment til that nearly kills ya - tries everything- or someone who peacefully just drifts off without doing anything- just "surrenders" and goes peacefully???.... murmering "God's will"... see what i'm saying here - it's "the fight" - do you go down without a fight? or go down slugging..... i'm thinking alot of that is just animal instinct - our genes - our character- WHO WE ARE.??!!

i feel the same as you - for a variety of different reasons. we are here- first and foremost because we picked up the damn book and it resonated with us. we obviously still "feel" for these men or we would not be here. IT IS the good news and the bad news. it is totally bad for us becasue of the pain we experience at their hands. it is good for them because we would like to see them "come thru" it - save the best thing in their lives (us of course), AND IN OUR LIVES... IF it's still there or doable. .... etc.

will it happen- i don't know- they seem to fight it tooth and nail- yet cannot break away. (their secret internal self knowing it's something they will never ever find again with anyone- not like us- not like this- not like what we all had???)

never apologize for length- you've seen my posts. it's becasue i can type so darn fast- years in the office- but it's who i am- i've got this junk rolling around inside my head.

i like reading your "thoughts" when youre on a rant- sooo much of it is exactly what i'm thinking and feeling ON A STINKING DAILY BASIS- IT'S EITHER laughable or cryable- i'm never sure whick and i probably do both every single day. talk to someone about it- laugh and admit what a jerk i am- then i'm alone and it makes me blub sometimes in sheer frustration.

I DO NOT KNOW HOW YOU ARE DOING THIS WITHOUT some buddies to yank into conversation daily if you need it. i wouldn't have made it without the couple poor saps i've bored lifeless - and of course YOU- so SO THANKS FOR THAT- RANT AWAY- GET IT OUT AND THEN GET IT OUT AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN.

IT's the most frustrating, worthy/unworthy, important/stupid, vital/deadly; thing i've ever done in my life. i hate it and hate it and hate being here and hate being subjected to it, hate having chose to try- ALOT - BUT FOR better or worse- I THINK STILL - that we are both ENGAGED IN THIS battle - unwilling (even still - yeah, i know, but i'm thinking it's true) unwilling to give up just yet - just this minute- just make it thru today - then tomorrow.

IN CONCLUSION - let me say right out loud- IF THIS IS A BUNCH OF HOOEY- AND NOT AT ALL PERTINENT TO YOU AND HOW YOU FEEL- FEEL PERFECTLY FREE TO SAY - YOU'RE NUTS NERO- AND DISREGARD THE WHOLE LOT. AND DO WHAT YOU FEEL IN YOUR HEART IS RIGHT FOR YOU.

THE separation thing seems like a good answer- but to me, in my sitch- it seems like it puts a rather "unreal" spin on things and might be the "kiss of death". going and coming - a person (h) could do this forever. the being away makes ya remember kinder times- long for them- the being together sometimes makes me think i can do without this in my life.

i'm honest when i tell you the constant flippnig and flopping makes me insane alot- i have to constantly be fighting my gut pushing me one way or the othr. so it may help- and it may hurt- i can't even call that.

hgope i didn't make you nuts here- hope you found something usable

hope your day isn't awful- try and not think in terms of "dread" of him and anything to come- i'm trying to just stay in the present- you know- five minutes from now being the "future".

we can get thru this holiday without head explosions - i thinbk anyway.

xxoo ((((((((((((((((((9 )))))))))))))))))))) you need it- i hope you'll be okay today.

listen to your heart- after all this insane crap and my equivocating- it's all we got i think- sad but true.

i don't think we can actually die from too much compassion or kindness or understanding (sickening tho it may be). it mught be (ick ick) who we are - and would we WANT to be anyone else???) let me hera back from you.

hang on..

[nero]

oh geeez - i'm here thinking about my giant giant reply to you just a bit ago-

soooo- hope i wasn't pushy - (just in case)that's all.

if i was bossing you around- then bad me and sorry -

if i wasn't, then nothin- thank you and drive thru please....

[albamarie]

Nero - quickly I just want to say thanks, and everything you say is important and useful. I really appreciate your time and care you put in your post. I will be back later, I am having a horrible H day, thank God he start work soon.

brb

[albamarie]

Journaling: Ok, I'm going to keep this really short.

Bad day w/H, I told him to leave, I said go, I said get the hell out of my house, H finally stood up and was about to get his coat when he repeated what I said, and stated that I would have to do better than that as he sat back down.

As were speaking I repeated that I wanted him to go, nothing!

It's all about ea and my zero tolerance warning about him visiting her, so I acted on my threat and got nothing. I said go - he said if he wanted to go, he could have a long time ago, but he doesn't, and he always come home.

I said her or me because I won't tolerate it and she is hurting us, he said it's not a choice, he's home she's a friend.

I want to rip his face off! Why won't he leave? what am I to do? I can't live with this/him anymore, I am stuck!

I was so happy the last few days not talking to him and even the thought of him going today was making me excited. What is the next step, leave? But, its my house!

[TSquared2]

Keep telling him to leave this weekend, if he doesn't go...

Call his bluff.

Get a lawyer and start a separation agreement that stipulates he has to leave during the SA. He is testing you, sounds like, from all you have written, he doesn't believe you mean it ...especially this time of year with the holidays and all.

Just my 2 cents from someone who doesn't want anyone to D, and a guy.

[albamarie]

TS - He hates the holidays and is already sh!tting on the idea of anything festive.

I think his bluff is, is that he just wants both life styles and will never make a choice, if he wants wanna-be-bad a$$ or home body family man. He is content having both meet his needs right now. MLC flip!

I don't know anything about SA I will look into it for my state, I heard there as complex as an actual D.

Thanks for a guys 2 cents- it helps

[albamarie]

I had a talk w/H on the phone and he was explaining that the "H" is spent a nice weekend w/was that guy, my guy (for the most part) who watches movies, laughs, eats dessert first, and is tender w/me.

NOw he's flipped guy who hates "my H" guy. Eeww, this is crazy talk! He's so different, two faces of H!

There's the pain and agony I am facing, I live with an H who is two in one, depending on his brain, and not fun like peanut butter & chocolate.

Even when I talk about him leaving, there are two different reaction, what I got today, arrogance and stand. And, what I get on the flip - expression of regret and hope!

[TSquared2]

Well, from what you have written, his bluff is that when push comes to shove, you will back down, and he can have both (at least try to have both). OR, he is testing the crap out of you to see IF you will fight, that he matters enough to you that you will fight to keep him. All this on top of the mlc confusion, replay, etc.

Most people want to keep both/all options available, we hate to have to decide and live with the nagging "what ifs" regarding the closed doors, the "what might-have-beens"...so H right now seems to want both, and if he HAS to decide, he wants to be as sure as possible that he makes the right choice, since we ain't getting younger ya know...his testing is trying (in a weird way) to assure him that the "home-body man" will be the right choice 20 years from now. This is just my take on this, I am being tested I think as well...since W has questioned being with me for the next 20 as she struggles with aging, emptying nest, menopause, etc.

Sorry to ramble on like this, I just got thinking....