Portia, I'm sorry, my mind is not working properly today, I didn't realize you were already posting on Delboy's thread. I need to stay out of the egg nog!
No apologies necessary Snoddey. If you we're in MLC you would just deny you even posted!
Why do they want to be friends?Even when they spew at us,cheat on us and try to run off with every cent?
But in their minds it is all justified, and in another bit of their minds [for want of a better word] they do not want to be the bad guy.
My xh used to say to me quite petulantly that other divorced couples got along, and why couldn't we, Of course it was my fault that we didn't/couldn't.
But actually a bit of them has never left, isn't doing all this stuff. There is so much magical thinking going on.
My xh's latest comment a few months back was that I couldn't cope with him having relationships with other women. As if a normal person would be fine about it. But in his mind I am still the problem. Never mind we have been divorced for several years. He is still hanging around on the edges of my life
They are so muddled it can seem pointless trying to really understand, and yet there is the weird logic of the really messed up person going on which makes it strangely explicable, but totally insane from our perspective.
Another good read regarding lying etc, is the following: 'The Pathological Dishonesty Disease' Author:William J Beaty. just google the above, and you can read it for free. The page also contains links. Some of the links nolonger work.
Dellboy, that was an interesting read and makes me think of my own recolections of past memories. I'm starting to recall things that maybe were not as great as I remember.
But I also see that my H is I think is BPD because there are things he says that flat-out just never happened. Just my opinion.
M 41 H 43 M 22 S 18 S 14 D 11 Affair discovered 1/12 He filed 2/12 OW#2 7/12 she lives next door. D pending
But actually a bit of them has never left, isn't doing all this stuff. There is so much magical thinking going on.
Can you imagine if they woke up from that? What that pain would be like? Inside of each of us is a strong need to tell a "story" about what we experience. I think that's a human trait based on what I've seen and experienced. I can only imagine waking up after convincing myself and everyone around me that it was my ex's fault, only to realize it was me all along....
Part of the crazy that goes on has us thinking its us. We're told by somebody we care for and trust that it is. It takes time and more information (patterns) to see the bigger picture. There's a lot of pain that goes with that as we search our souls for answers. Along the way, we see them suffering in ways we've never experienced before (in most cases).
So I think it's natural that they want a "story" to tell that makes them justified in their actions. What tends to follow is a fantastical spew of anger (when "it" doesn't fit with their story) and make believe that has us scratching our heads wondering why they suddenly don't trust us, hate us and treat us like we're the devil's spawn.
But they still have a problem and a need that hasn't been met. We can't meet it, so they look elsewhere. Sadly, it's easy to find. Or so it would seem. But after a while, I think they find the stories and behaviors crashing down. What they thought they were getting - freedom and happiness - evaporates. And so they seem to go back to what they know. All the while avoiding where the problem really is.
By then, they've created such a fantasy land that it would be easier to just go with it. So it seems. That would leave them still unfulfilled and "searching".
Some find what they're looking for. Others continue in the new behaviors. Others revert to the previous behaviors with a new person and lead a secret life still trying to find the answers through their ex spouse using the same tools they had before - anger, spew, making things up, etc. I think that's because that's how they related to the ex spouse and they are stuck thinking that's how they should or all they know.
That leaves the LBS with the task of leaving them. When that happens they don't seem to like it. They continue to think we are the problem, B.
Because if they didn't, they'd have to face what they did and the consequence of it. Can you imagine being "done" and yet not being done? Can you imagine growing up and having to atone for your actions? To make amends when you spent so much energy vilifying the other person? That's a tall order.
And yet, we tend to be not much better. We know what happened and we don't forgive easily. We put ourselves on a higher pedestal because we (rightfully) lived to a higher, more mature standard in regards to our spouses. We were hurt by them and their actions and know we didn't do that to them. We don't make it easy or possible for them to make amends, in part because they have this fantasy idea how it should be, and we don't play that part in their minds.
The crazy behavior is, in my view, just an attempt to tell a "story" that portrays themselves as the hero/heroine so they can get out of that self-loathing cycle. It's a repair mechanism that in effect, puts others down so they can feel better about themselves and try to regain their self-esteem. To justify their crazy and hurtful actions.
While they try to do that, we see some funny stuff. Hiding in a closet talking to the OP, or humming to themselves when they are around you, or acting like a child and throwing an absolute fit when they don't get their way. I'm sure there's more...
AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
Lostforwords - What kind of therapist would give an opinion on someone that they have never met? This scares me. Good thing you ended up meeting them. Our MC#1 in my last 1 on 1 with her put her arm around me and told me too that I am nothing that my W perceives. My W would not go back to her or the other 3 she went to (2 on her own) as she came back ticked off that she was not entirely right. She is now seeing an IC that is guiding her through the D process. This IC has never met me but feels it okay to render opinions about me. I guess if they see enough people and learn to spin their way, eventually someone will tell them what they want to hear. Our family and friends do not see it either. Those who challenge her she avoids and cuts ties.
M17 yrs. me49 xW47 d15 d11
BD1-Jul/11(Affair found out) Therapy 9 months (tried 2) BD2- May/12(sep) Court Jul/13 - I got 50/50 Sold home - Aug/13 Court #2 - Dec/13 Court#3 - Apr/14 ... She lost again We settled.
Hi good folks, Just to say how the Mlcer can paint a bad picture of the LBS, Liz in late June 04 went to see a lawyer about starting divorce proceedings (she was trying to get the monkey off her back, it got back to Liz that I thought she would be coming back).
The letter went something like this: our client (Liz) would like you to file for divorce, by reason of her adultery, if we have not heard from you in the next 6 weeks, then our client will start divorce proceedings against you on grounds of your unreasonable behaviour!
I never replied to this, she then left it till 22nd Dec 04 before she went to see another lawyer, one in our local town. Now this is the lawyer who Liz used to do the housework for under the instructions of his wife who we all (my family) knew very well. This was the lawyer who let us use his chalet and boats etc on the Norfolk broads in the summer of 98!
I panicked when I received the letter and I made the mistake by phoning him up before I sought a lawyer. Well you couldn’t believe the sh1t, that Liz must have told him and he obviously must have believed her!!
You see he would be thinking, no way could a women like Liz walk away from her family, it must be that she as a bad ass of a husband!
In May 05 she dropped this lawyer, and she didn’t want to proceed, but the courts had already granted the decree nisi. Liz also didn’t want to have mediation, so we had to wait till early 06 before the start of the actual divorce settlement and the absolute, which was made final on 22nd Nov 06.
Just goes to show how convincing the Mlcer’s can be!
They fool everyone, including lawyers, cousellor, family and friends (some). Their inconsistancies come out....especially in litigation sadly enough. Then it just bocomes an unnecessary expensive war. From what I understand the right judges see through this fairly well too in cross examinine well.
M17 yrs. me49 xW47 d15 d11
BD1-Jul/11(Affair found out) Therapy 9 months (tried 2) BD2- May/12(sep) Court Jul/13 - I got 50/50 Sold home - Aug/13 Court #2 - Dec/13 Court#3 - Apr/14 ... She lost again We settled.
Mine is convinced that she feels no passion for me, never did and never will, but mum seems to be the word for the most part. She doesn't seem to be trying to fool anyone though. She seems to know no one would fall for it. Even told me once that she figures if she bails, most would see her as the bad guy.
Is this a good sign?
M: A really long time. Crisis: 5 years. She's still worth it.
Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
