Journaling The weekend was uneventful with H doing what he does best, sleeping, over eating and watching tv.
I made several attempts to get us to do something, anything, but he has no respect for life, finds nothing interesting or fun, and is a bore.
Before it got boring on Sat. we had some laughs, made some steaks and went over a few doc. that we've been researching. H made some conversation about our future and he made a few references to why would I want to be with him.
He called himself non-human. At first I literally told him to shut up, playful but to the point. Later on he called himself not a good guy anymore, not evil, but an angry a$$whole. Speaking about the injustice of how God doesn't see were a good family and shine on us.
Talking about how he has no reward for his hard work, our family isn't being blessed with blah blah. I said your efforts to be "bad to the bone" don't help us either, we have been moving on, as life does, but lateral.
He agreed! He says it's better than being the good guy (God fearing with love and faith in Him) because that got us know where! So I gave it to him! I said I think your at a point of frustation because your trying to be something your not and it's not working.
He said he's out of angry stream, but he's not going to be good guy again. I said you are the good guy looking stupid trying to be something else and it doesn't work for you, you look ugly, stinky (cigarettes) and worn the F** down. But, not like a bad guy, not cool, not even the slightest scary. Mind you were not fighting!
I said you can't even get a new spew, it's old and has no validity to it. Once again he agrees. I said I'm not trying to insult you, put you down, I want to show you that we can move ahead once you get past what hasn't worked and prepare to move forward, were here, that's why we are a family!
No, he's a failure and will not have his wife and kids pick him up, work with him to do what "he" should have done.
OK, than good luck going through life being you!
That being said we left it alone, thank goodness for TIvo, and sharing microwave popcorn,
This leaves me to think about me, what do I want in a R, who do I want to be w/everyday and what do I want from that person. What am I willing to fight for and what should be left to go waist side if that's it's destiny.
I think the "do nothing" action really works in this case because it feels as if I shouldn't try to make something out of nothing, it should come natural.
Concentrate on me, do for me, spoil me a little, get me in order! Help! That's hard, why? I have to reminding myself everyday, about me!
Any thoughts!
The past can't be ahead of you in the future. You don't have to figure it all out, just pick a direction. What's next...I don't know but I can't wait!
I began okay- addressing your post- then midway got a call from H (he's been w/ow for past several days) - (makes me always feel like i'm slowly roasting in h_ll)- so then it getslongish- sorry - but anyone's input is welcome. i feel (as usual) confused and awful about it all- can't stand not to talk - can't stand to talk...
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wow- interesting kind of conversation. i'd think it's "something" thta his angry spew is abated and he's just kind of "accepting". It's awfully negative stuff- but maybe he just needs to say these rotten icky things out loud- maybe when they come out of his mouth- they register differently in his brain (like the rest of us??) could it be? maybe - in the end, he'll be able to discard them once he's said it enough- putit out there enough- gotten tired of it himself from the repetitive gloom & doom? i don't know- one can only hope.
like therapy when you've got a physical injury and they pattern the non-functioning limb over and over and over and over hoping teh correct movement takes hold & becomes the "norm" again.
my humble (and of course, pollyanna- outlook here).
i think the fact that he says this stuff out loud- expresses(admits) confusion and negativity- etc. is something.
my non-talking- non-feeling (i guess) non-thinking h is soooo discouraging to me- i don't like it the times when we do "talk" (infrequent as it is) and he heaps blame and crap on my head- but it's "something". it's "touch" - it's contact. of an icky sort- but nevertheless.
oh well- i'm a bit ramblie this morning-
DA DA DUMMMMMM......
OH FOR CRYING OUT LOUD- I PICKED UP THE PHONE- WHY IN THE UNIVERSE WOULD I??? (I'M throwing in what i can remember even what shows me in bad light- maybe input from the "universe" will help me do better next time...
oh geeez - we just had a phone conversation. i do not know why i picked up the phone- i guess as usual i welcome contact- while i dread talking to him knowing he's just been w/ her having wonderful life.
it went a little "bad" - i remained totally calm- i could not help responding to his "so, what have you been up to" and when he said he was "out of town" - all i could say was "if you have decided this woman is the love of your life and total better replacement for me- why in the world are we talking now" and why would you be coming up here. ???? i asked him (yeah - i know, again) if he's had affairs the entire time we were togethr? with her or others?
he said no- he also said why the heck do i need to ask this again- if he's answered it, and think he lies. i merely said sorry but in my circumstance- trying to figure out in my head if my entire life has been wasted on something that wasn't what i thought it was - it seems crucial to me to know. i'm a person that has to find every single stinkin penny when i balance the checkbook- no more no less. i think it's who i am- I NEED THE STINKING reassurance that my memories are at least OK and i can have them without being a fool. IS THAT SO BAD???
he just accuses me of being too dramatic and says am i saying relatonships are "it's all or nothing" - ( IS THIS GUY for real??? . duhhh- of course it's all or nothing in my heart. sharing love and sex with ow is not something i like living with.) he says he is not like "other people" - he doesn't have relationships that are soooo rigidly demarcated. (something like that)???
i had to respond that he wasn't playing fair trying to turn everything into me demanding that he have no human contact except me.
I wish i had a tape recorder becasue i cannot remember what all he said and i said. i tried really hard to just be non-inflammatory- non-blamie- non-everything in the universe.
really hard to have a conversation without talking at all or asking or telling or anything at all- what, listen to each other breath? he has written a brief e-mail -one line about his aunt asking him to fix her phone. i didn't respond- my thought was "can you spare it". i figure he was still out of town- wanted some contact- didn't know what the heck to say or how to see if i was out there and what the???
thing is- he asks questions- i answer generally. i don't have anything to ask anymore. what i really want to know- i hate to know and don't like to ask.
i tried to be neutral- when he said i didn't get to be crabby & scrappy for years and not have it change his feelings for me - i just managed (gulp) to say i'm sorry if i've hurt you- i threw in (probably shouldn't have) that he was critical and crabby and tho i didn't know what the REAL cause was- i was trying to understand and would rather work on someting important to me than just chuck it and replace it.
crud - bad strategy huh? bad dbing - bad everything - bad girl...
he got edgy- he didn't end up busting a gut- he gets mad- i just don't. i just don't have even the stinknig emotion left inside me to get mad. he keeps saying i mean a great deal to him- he has no plans to move in with her- marry her- go live wit hher= he likes to talk to me - it's important to have me in his life- (he wants less of me in it!!! - but doesn't want to think it's all or nothing). i asked him what the heck he thought the last 30 years were- it was not "co workers" to me. it was what i thought i'd have for life- my family- my life. he is soooo uncomfortable - that i have emotions. he's sooooo unable to fathom that it was his lies and him that kept me there for soooo long. i didn't imagine it - or make it up- now i'm left with the caring and he's wanting to be free guy -
i'm trying to remeber & digest - he said he didn't call yesterday becasue he dreaded it - knowing how i feel and how we'd "talk".
i was going to be totally neutral- i asked him if he could just give it a try to actually talk to me like i was any other person (as i was trying hard to do) not putting words in my mouth - his conversation is absolutely rife with"i know what you think" and "I knew you'd say..." - and so on. there's not one thing he says that isn't a (wrong) repeat of what i say or said or was trying to say. wtf??? how does one
i admitted i used to love him and now wasn't sure what i felt. he is soooo afraid to use the L word to me- he has always been - YET in his covert e-mails it's allover like you know what. it's what he throws around when he's boinking someone apparently.
how sad that's the only time it falls from his lips easily. i asked him if this ow was in fact "the love of his life" - which is what he said to her in THE email. he didn't say yes, he said they've been friends for many years and now it's something more. geeeez - just rip my heart beating from my body here buddy and throw it in the stinkin street. curiously, i was not shattered - i guess i'm becoming resigned and "hard" here.
i merely said i am a person in a very bad situation - trying to gather my strength & thoughts about my entire life and figure out where i go from here.
there's more- i can't remember it all - it was makng my hands shake (i guess just adrenalin rush with no where to go)
- he got mad when i told him i hate him when he's with her. what in the world would i feel else??? later in conversation he threw out "well, you're telling me you're trying to get to hate me" - not exactly what i said. what i said was it would be alot easier of i hated him- that i didn't want to love him and i didn't want to hate him.
it was icky i'd say- and bad form on my part and bad dbing too. crap!!
i said, what in the world am i supposed to say to you? "did you ahve a wonderful weekend? did you go on trips and have lots of love????? was it great and did it make you want to never see my face again or hear my voice because he loves her more- her conversation more- her body more...... - that i feel always that he will reach some overwhelming conclusion of total love and adoration for her and we will never see each other's faces again. that he is desirous of me getting to hate him and walking out of his life so he can be free without doing the dirty work himself - - - " that he acts like it's the most normal thing in the world and i hate it. that i don't like it when he's not here- that i find it wierd when he is.
he gets so mad when he repeats to me that i said i think he wishes i'd get out of his life and never see my face again.
he says he likes it if i said i am happy to hear his voice and helikes talking to me - i said i feel like i am being expected to be someone else- not care- not express affection- not call him- not make any contact- not try to understand. in other words- be a different person that the one i am and have always been.
then this goober gets mad because he thinks i'm too dramatic and why would i say that??? why would i NOT feel or say that?
OKAY- BEST i can remember that was our deal- what the heck do you make of any of it.
i am very regretful this minute that i even "went there". he said he didn't think i'd pick up the phone- i said i feel badly seeing his number and just disregarding it. OH GOD - this is such a painful mess- i wish i could cry. i did several million times yesterday- those poor children that were shot and then of course, it spills onto one's own shabby crappy life problems. i know, and i'm grateful to be alive and healthy-
it's just- all of the above. whattya think of any of this mess...
xxo - AND I thought i was going to be productive today- i hrally have to- i'm so tired of giving in to my emotional mess of a life.
H is talking about his death again, not to me because I won't hear it, but spewing it at others. Asking why hasn't he died yet, why is he still here.
I am so stuck...I don't want this but he won't get help. Can't live with him, can't put him in a hospital!
After Fri he will be on holiday break for 12 days...it's going to be bad I predict. Between his gloom and ea contact what the hell am I here for. The good times are so far and few between, and they are not solid, the're more for the moment.
We have our moments of tenderness, closeness, family laughs and even talk of the next yr plans. But, it is so temporary, so limiting in it's value, because he's so inconsistant, with himself.
Between ea contact and his issues with himself I don't want to be around any of it anymore. I want to waw but can I really or do I make excuses as to why I can't?
I need time away from the sitch, him and all the drama! I can't find me in this muck of other peoples issues. He asked me not to go but really that doesn't have much baring on me.
I would rather get an apt. work and be alone in a sitch were alone doesn't mean lonely, because the crazy guy in the other room is unapproachable, alone means time for myself.
Is this all dreaming on my part, trying to escape, I don't know but it feels very real to me!
The past can't be ahead of you in the future. You don't have to figure it all out, just pick a direction. What's next...I don't know but I can't wait!
Some people think that because they have personal issues to sort out, they have to separate or spend lots of time alone. There is no reason in the world why you can't work on yourself and stay in your marriage while you're doing it. In fact, relationships provide a wonderful opportunity for personal growth. Stretch personally, but don't throw your marriage away in the process. If you do relationship-enhancing activities, even if you're not initially in the mood, it often changes how you feel. Sitting around thinking won't change how you feel about your spouse but taking action often will. Michele Weiner-Davis (via @divorce busting)
Well that really says something about my last post.
I have been doing R-E activities for a while now, as described above, I enjoy those times with H very much, as does he. Cuddling and falling asleep is probably the best feeling in a R, but (there the but) it's the inconstancy, the knowledge that there is so much unresolved within himself, and between us!
I want to stretch out to decide if I really do want to stay in the M. Does that make sense?
The past can't be ahead of you in the future. You don't have to figure it all out, just pick a direction. What's next...I don't know but I can't wait!
I am so stuck...I don't want this but he won't get help. Can't live with him, can't put him in a hospital!
It's so true- in their zeal to protect the rights of the individual- they've made it really hard to help people who might really need it- but don't have the presence of mind to get it.
i have one bit of info (at least this is the sitch in nj) there are state mental health places that will give help people can afford if they ask -BUT THERE IS ALSO part of that agency- you'd have to call around a bit - that IF YOU FEEL THE PERSON is a danger to themselves (death talk?) or others - a representative of the mental health organization will come to pick up the person with a couple police men - and they will take him/her to get help. whether they agree or not- they'll treat it as an emergency situation and do it.
i was going to call them once for my alcoholic sister (clearly not eating and doing herself damage) but my mom and h talked me out of it. they kept saying it wasn't time to be that drastic- my mom said the police would tramatize her to death. well, she ended up drinking herself to death- so i'm sorry now i was so equivocal at the moment. it may or may not have "saved" her- who knows? i'm such a ween...
i'm just throwin this in in case you have such a state body up there that might be a help in your sitch. if it was a way you seriously wanted to go.
Maybe also - baker act him if you get really scared he'll do something crazy. i think it just takes two relatives swearing a person is a danger to self or others. somethinglike that.
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We have our moments of tenderness, closeness, family laughs and even talk of the next yr plans. But, it is so temporary, so limiting in it's value, because he's so inconsistant, with himself.
so, i'm wondering , in the end - how do you really rate those moments? are they something at all? a tiny chink of light shining thru or just flukes? i feel the same way- i wonder also if they are something or nothing.
sometimes i think h forgets that he is supposed to view me as "the enemy" and just acts like himself. the guy i knew that was just fine with me. who cannot be allowed to like me now because he is busy making me the reason - for his treason.hey- i'm rhyming here-
maybe your h too? he just forgets he's not supposed to be letting himself love you right out- because then he's got to do the hard thing of ditching ow or confronting what she really is to him.??? (as in - if she were HIS LIfE and BREATH - wouldn't he have tried like heck to win her and jump straight into whatever r there full throttle?)
i've asked that- "if she's soooo wonderful - what in the hell are you waiting for?? if she's the big Love- go have it. you'd be a fool not to." blank look - no reply - what's the hesitation??? wtf???
i personally think this ow stuff is an addiction of one sort or another. it produces those feel good endorphens and they press the button to get the treat *(sorry, but much like the rats they are). no more- no less. just an unthinking action that gets a good feeling.
that they are cremating someone that loves them- just a nuisance and something that does the exact opposite- makes them feel guilty and BAD - hence, aversion to us.(blaming us for their unhappiness instead of their life, problems or personal unfullfillment)
i'd think it's their own conscience that makes us soooo objectionable. and their own - what??? heart in there??? that makes them so unable to just walk out and take a chance on new person.
of course- you know better what hell it is to deal with someone depressed like your H - mine is merely terminally narcissistic i guess. if he thinks he "lost himself" in our life together- he should take a look in my brain. like an ant in a tornado. ya wanna see lost??????
(well, in the r) i am "lost". as a person- i know who i am. i know what life has to offer- i've had people die forever - and i know what is good when i have it. not one r in the universe is perfect all across the board. They are fools to let go of what they had with us- it sounds egocentric i know- but honestly. how do you save someone that wants to just "go down"? i don't know if this is me letting myself & you off the hook - or what? HEY- YOU TOLD ME- WE CANNOT SAVE THEM.
WE CAN ONLY save ourselves!!!
like the spiel about alcoholism - you have to let them hit "rock bottom" and want to stop themselves. Even when i asked if rock bottom means dying- apparently the knowledge is that you cannot stop it -????!!!! i will never know if that's rite or wrong. my best sister did in fact drink til she died - and i stood by being her friend- but not dragging her to salvation somehow. ....
with this - i don't think we'll ever get to know either. different words - but hence the db spiel of : it's their journey. they have to make it alone.
if i'm totally honest (God i hate the sap i am) the moments of "connection" make me feel one tiny grain "better" . in some wierd way. i can't even say it gives me hope for us because honestly- we're not even married. this guy can't commit- probably never will. and i'm thinking it's not good enough any more.
I am so sick of waiting for the other shoe to drop - and of course, appalled at the years i spent trying to understand and figure out what's bothering him. i fear wasting my life on this hopeless situation - or giving up too soon???!!! cripes - what a jerk huh?????
If they perk up before you or i just jump ship- maybe there's a chance. if they allow us to become more and more detached and unfulfilled til we just blow up & away one day - , then i think they managed to just kill the whole thing- and end up old men who regret it. but we move on and away. (well- you'll have kids in common so you'll know how he ends up ) me, i'd say i drift away and never see his face again.
i hate thought of living all alone forever- but i hate thought of being a jerk like this for the rest of my life. i'd like security - somehow. i guess he is my security blanket if i'm honest - of some kind at this moment. but i hate the thought of just being some dope hanging on in a life that is not what I WANT TOO - If he's going to be going around all mooning after other people - grass is greener kind of thing.
maybe i just have too much imagination and think people are capable of anything - h thinks he will never ever change and his thoughts now are etched in stone- no backs.
i'm still trying to get harder and harder myself - steeling myself for day when h ends it all. or i do. i don't know how else it could go- with me here in this place - accessible to him- i don't think he'll ever tire of her or "that" - why would he? A FUN DIversion - he really does have both worlds.
knowing i'm here - "for him" probably makes it seem very fun & okay. he isn't able to imagine no me in his life - AT ALL. I THINK. maybe it wouldn't make a diff. - but i'm thinking after a few years of me being totally GONE - he might remember how good it really was til he screwed it all up. big time. as far as his lighthouse- maybe if he doesn't want to find his way back- this ole lighthouse is sittin on her rock all alone for nothin.
sorry to be dreary today.
there's really nothing to hang my hat on- i'm running out of patience & intestinal fortitude too - i'd think like you. BUT - I'M NOT WALKIN OUT THE DOOR EITHER- it's hard to keep faith when it's all soooo nebulous as someone elses (wacked out) psyche. YOUR H,
I THINK you're having some despair because it's Christmas and dreary & hopeless seeming- EVEN IF IT IS - I'M JUst sayin what that woman attorney said to my friend (which is what holds me back) THINK LONG AND HARD about what exactly you're running out the door to. if it's not alot better- maybe wait a bit- or ride it out a bit. (what? the devil you know?)
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He asked me not to go but really that doesn't have much baring on me.
I would rather get an apt. work and be alone in a sitch were alone doesn't mean lonely, because the crazy guy in the other room is unapproachable, alone means time for myself.
Is this all dreaming on my part, trying to escape, I don't know but it feels very real to me!
Has the bulb gone out in our lighthouse? are we thinking seriously of letting them become wrecked on the shoals?
i don't know- all i know this morning is one thing- you are here agonizing over this. if you are - then you are not at THAT POINT (IMHO) (of total departure) IT'S WHAT i think of myself and alllll my stinking flipping and flopping and so on. you must not be at THE POINT OF NO return- if you are even here saying this. the pull of the past is really strong- maybe for people like us we need to be sure we see it thru til the bitter end. (otherwise - why would someone have made up that expression - bitter end? )
maybe can you be at peace with your resolve to not go away for (a month?) and do it that way? just one more month- one more day- one more hour??? i tell myself that too.
we're just girls who want to be happy- weeding our way thru a stinking mine field- step lightly- keep the faith (in self really) and know that whether you leave today or in a year- it will be the rite thing at the rite time. i'm thinking.
hope your day is okay- the 12 days of christmas will probably not be the hell you anticipate- our imaginations are always the worst - HOWEVER - no expectations is a good thing too.
((((( )))))) xxoo
now- lets hold hands and jump in the water - this next week or two should be real "experiences" in life- can we view it as an experiment in something? us in charge of us? us being impervious to them - us resisting the sucking into their brand of insanity - something......
i personally think this ow stuff is an addiction of one sort or another. it produces those feel good endorphens and they press the button to get the treat *(sorry, but much like the rats they are). no more- no less. just an unthinking action that gets a good feeling.
Whatever it is its quite sickening. It's enough to make me want to turn around running far, fast.
I know - by his actions (he's home everyday ect) and the sitch that he's not trying to have a ''life'' with her, but she is in his life as his friend. NOT EXPECTABLE, EVER!
It does feel good to him to have his friend, her stupid carefree life is one big concert, beer fest, but it feels bad to me, so we are at an impasse. I will break us up if he is so intent on this is who he is now.
BRB - later
The past can't be ahead of you in the future. You don't have to figure it all out, just pick a direction. What's next...I don't know but I can't wait!
i replied to you a bit ago- it's not here. now i don't know if i did or not- and what the heck i said. it was a brilliant insight that flitted rite in and out again (apparently) oh well.
just thinking (again) tho-
WHAT IF, JUST WHaT IF, what all this is about with you and me - really really deeeep inside- nothing more than our perverse little nature - us deciding we'll leave when we're damn good and ready to do it- in our own time and in our own way and when we're sick and tired of the bs and we call the shots (from a position of strength instead of from a position of weakness??? what if it's all about the off chance we get to wreak revenge???... a bid for power- or at the very least be the guy in charge instead of the victim. ?
(i'm not much of a power guy- but what if inside our sweet little souls - there lurks a power bi_ch???
just found myself thinking it- this assumes a hell of alot doesn't it- that the day comes when the table is turned and we're the guys delivering the blow - not them.
oh man- twisted little mind in there - wtf i think i'm getting wierded out about my own "days of christmas" coming - like yours. oh no- mr bill..... we need to take a step back & down.
wonder what my last post wanted to say- will be back if i can figure that one out. did this make any sense btw?
Nero - your bid for power doesn't really work for me because my H has none over me. He has long ago conceded before the fight saying that everything we've made together is mine. He wants nothing in life, hates money, believes the house should be mine.
So I find that even when I used to try and get back at him I was the loser, because he has a callous heart. If I packed his bags he would through everything in the garbage. So I stopped that behavior quick. How can I kick a guy down who is already harder on himself than I can ever be.
WE have to get away from the assumptions, they are deadly! I just want to be happy again, I love when he leaves for work now, GTFO is all I am thinking as 8:30p approches. I used to L this man!
The past can't be ahead of you in the future. You don't have to figure it all out, just pick a direction. What's next...I don't know but I can't wait!
My S24 asked me today what would I do if I won a substantial amount of money...my answer with not much thought was I would leave dad and GAL that is worthy of me, and makes me happy.
wow, I was amazed at how much I ment that. S24 said it's sad, he has us here to help, but you have to do what makes you happy, mom. My S21 chimed in saying I'm sick of d and I don't even want anything to do with him anymore. He won't help himself or let us help, than F*** him, I have not respect for him.
S21 and H were best buds, it was like S was born for H, I was just the baker. They look alike, work in the same field, and now my youngest out of 3 S's hates his dad to the point of disgust. He even refuses to sugar coat the sitch when asked about H in public, saying that maybe one day H will man up and realize that of all the men they work with (many crews) his dad is the biggest looser.
My family is so injured by all of this. H is here everyday, but not really. His wife wants to leave him, his boys have no respect for him, and his D18 said she doesn't care anymore.
hold on...make change...wait for a natural outcome...run screaming?
The past can't be ahead of you in the future. You don't have to figure it all out, just pick a direction. What's next...I don't know but I can't wait!
