Same Old Wagon Wheel Part 6

[ThisDayForward]

25 yes I was put on EE's waiting list. I'll hit them up again

[ThisDayForward]

25 how am I not following the list of what not to do? I'm not reacting to her when she does her button pushing stuff. I'm not escalating or confronting her. I give her space etc..

Also thx for the response on detachment. Such a simple concept that seems impossible to implement

[25yearsmlc]

PON

you asked me for ideas of what you can work on...here is what YOU posted nearly a year ago and what some responses were. By seeing it here perhaps you can see how much resistance to DBing you have shown.

OR not. Just tell us what you think AFTER you have read and PONDERED this for a good solid day or two. Really look at where you were and tell us where you believe you are now. Because it all boils down to one question...


Why would your wife believe marriage to you, from this day forward,

could be better/different than before?

Below are Your first posts....and some answers (WHICH ARE ALL IN RED...no matter who else wrote them)

so you can see that A LOT of this has been said to you for a long time...

there is less mystery here than you seem to see...there are answers here...

So I have to ask you this:

do you want to be married or not?

Do you just want it to work -- but not work at it?

Do you want to be married to HER or just not be alone?

Seems like you don't get the whole "work" concept b/c you say, OFTEN, "this is so hard" as if any of us found it easy or painless...


B/c the "SECRET" to staying married is - there is NO secret. It just takes work.

From 25...

Jan 2012
Dear Melt


sorry you are here but it's the best place to be for a lousy reason...

Choose the approach you want and make a real effort at consistent application of the principles in it. You sound pulled in many directions and I suspect you come off as inconsistent so she won't believe the changes are anything but tactics to get her back, as opposed to real changes in you.

If you change YOU and become the best man you can, the man she fell in love with, you may turn this around. 3 weeks is nothing. Check my signature block.

Sounds like you two have been doing a lot of the same old thing fo 2 years now...it'll take awhile to undo the damage and move "from this day forward."


what did SHE SAY the problems were? Were any of them valid to you?


What are you doing about the problems that belong to YOU?

Do you understand that UNLESS SHE believes marriage to you can be better and different

then she won't return?

So how will YOU reveal this new better you and different way of interacting?

You are the person posting here so the focus here, is ON YOU and what YOU Can do to help the situation.

And you are the only person you control. Remember that...and make some choices.

Let us know...
________________
YOUR ANSWER IS BELOW AND IS FROM JAN 2012



She said I'm controlling and have trouble letting certain things go. I am working on myself as much as I can right now. Not seeing my kids everyday is taking a huge toll on me. I found a local counselor that is familiar with Michele's principals and I interviewed her per DB suggestions.

I have started to get in touch with my spiritual side. I've joined a men's group at my local church. I understand I have to start becoming less reactive or getting on the defense about certain things.


Thanks for making it clear that if she doesn't see the marriage changing she will not come back. Actually I feel the same way. She needs to make some changes to. But of course I now understand I can't control those things.

One thing I am struggling with today is I feel like there is something bothering her. I want to ask her so we can get it on the table and answer what the problem is with a 180 attitude. I just don't like the fact that she holds things in for 3 weeks without talking to me about things. I know why she does it because she fears a blow out. I just know my wife after so many years and feel like the way she is interacting with me recently makes me feel like something is on her mind. Is is ok to ask. I mean we need some sort of communication channel even though we are separated.

Yes I am being pulled in several directions and I get mixed messages from her. I never pursue her but I get txt from her at night about non kids things. I sort of enjoy getting them but also gives me mixed messages.

This is the hardest thing I've ever been through.
------
THEN QUESTIONS ABOUT WHY SHE'D HAVE TRUST ISSUES WITH YOU, AND HERE IS WHAT YOU WROTE...

_________------------
Lack of trust came from some emails and facebook messages from ex girlfriends that started off as innocent talk but then turned into sexual nature. These ex girls from 20 years ago started just small talk then started talking about good ole days of highschool etc. I should have stopped the conversations and said it was inappropriate but I did not.

There was no talking of meeting up or having affairs or anything but the content was inappropriate. She read them and was hurt. I then what every stupid guy would do in this situation and try to play it off like it was no big deal. Try to talk my way out of hot water and made it worse. I realize what I did now but at the time got caught up in it.

She then started distancing herself from me and I got paranoid and snooped in her stuff and found a few things I wasn't happy with and it all snowballed down hill from there. Trust was broken down and never restored.
-------

THEN YOU WROTE SOME MORE....


25year I made a long response to your questions but it never seemed to make it up here. But the things laid out for me was trust issues, (broken by me) control issues, jealousy etc. My own paranoia from doing things wrong causing me to not trust her and snoop into her stuff. The things I've been doing to fix them. Actively involved in church. Reading books. Joined this forum. Admitted my wrong doings.

Part of me thinks she is using this separation so she can say she tried. I don't know how she will ever see the changes I'm making when we have little to no communication. Honestly it almost appears she is going "DARK" on me. At night after I say goodnight to kids there are no longer any txt messages to me. Once in awhile she use to send me something not related to the kids etc.

I do know I need to "Get A Life" again. I'm working on that. It is very tough sitting in this quiet rental wit all my kids pictures on the wall etc. I also am trying to do what is right fo the kids right now but I feel that reduces my time with them. I definitely should have one more overnight with my kids during the week. I agreed not to keep normalcy for my son school and bus schedule.

I also feel like I'm being controlled because she knows how much I miss the kids and do not want the marriage to dissolve.

I've been torn all morning whether or not to ask her if I can take my son sledding. All of this is so very hard. I don't know when its her weekend that if I should be asking to spend time with son sledding cuz its snowing or no communication at all. I feel like I'm in a giant catch 22 and because me and her do not communicate very well right now I never know what to do
-------

TODAY DECEMBER 18, 2012

See how you blamed her, even THEN, for how you felt? You said she's "using something "as an excuse to say she tried"

BUT excuse me,

it was YOU who BETRAYED HER....don't let the amnesia sink in so much b/c we don't have amnesia and neither does your wife.


HERE IS A NOTE FROM THE DB MODERATOR BACK THEN...


FROM DB MODERATOR ALMOST A YEAR AGO…

Hi net-

Welcome to divorcebusting.com, officially!

Your post has attracted our 'best', women who have been successful! I apologize for the timing of the full-moderation related to the help you are being given. Please be patient, you should be approved in short order with a good posting history.


I have some questions:


1)When you say "Trying to do some 180 techniques", what specifically do you mean? What are you DOING differently.


Remember, 'If it isn't broke, don't fix it'....don't just grab some 180's and do them.

The BEST 180 is the complete opposite of her stereotype of you. So when looking at her complaints, what are they? What can she be just absolutely sure of what you will do and how you will react...related to the things that bother her? This is the change that needs to happen, and needs to stick.


2) 'How long do I go separated before asking her on her thoughts about reconciling and keeping our family intact?'

It doesn't exactly go this way. Don't make this question a part of your plan. Your plan will be 'sort of' related to getting her to ask you that question. Now...in actuality, it's even more related to making these things happen in ACTIONS, not words. Don't worry about these logistics, concern yourself with learning techniques, which are delineated in Divorce Remedy (and Divorce Busting, but DR is the upgraded version of DB), and Keeping Love Alive. You say your coach is well-versed, so immerse yourself in learning WHAT to DO.

3) What you focus on expands: how did you fall in love, what is going well, what is still good between you?


4) What are her complaints? What specifically was driving her away?
_________________________
dbmod



from PON

25years. Sorry I did reply to the threads they were moderated.

But the main reason why we are separated today is I would say that I was SMOTHERING her. I no longer do this now. But its to late I'm out of the house in an apartment. I wish I had this forum and DB and DR prior to moving out.


DEC 2012
PON, you have had this site for nearly a year. Many things have been repeated to you...and that is not a criticism but a fact. You resist...so much and then wonder why the progress is slow.

Can you list 3 things you have learned here?

And now can you list anything you are consistently doing differently?

Does this help clarify why you are more or less in the same situation as before?

You ask a lot about whether being apart helps with detachment but you were apart before.

Any thoughts or insights here?

Is this why the mc's see splitting up as the only choice?

If they've advised you and we've advised you, but you still seem to need to hear the same stuff said...

what do you think the answer is? If you won't change, then what is there to do?

[theUF]

I feel like the people I talk to about detachment don't do this until they are physically dating someone else or have moved on completely.

I'm more detached now than I was a couple of months ago.
No way as detached as I need to be, but enough that what she throws at me doesn't ruin my day or upset me too much.
I am NOT dating. I don't even want to at this point.
I just want to work on myself and be there for my S.

You don't need to date to detach, that would just be a distraction from the real problem, not a solution.

I feel like part of DB veterans say "do nothing. no not give energy to her"

Part of me feels like I let her treat me like a doormat when doing above.

Then maybe you're going at it the wrong way.
You let her do what she want, but you still try to find out what it is. Who she txts. ETC.

You do a lot of "hidden questions" which I'm sure she sees through. Like when she leaves and you ask b/c of kids.
You let her do it, but you ask w/an excuse and give energy.


I'm curretnly trying to live the whole "do not give her energy".
She is kind and charming from time to time, but often and especially over telephone she has that disrespectful "tone" and can be downright rude. For no apparent reason.

I called her back 1 time and told her it was not ok and wouldn't be accepted.
She still often has that tone, but then I just cut the conv short, tell her goodbye and hang up. With no attitude. Just in a good mood and gentle tone.

It doesn't necessarily change how she acts, if anything she just seemed annoyed be me not getting sucked in by it, but hey at least I'm considering ME and what -I- want.

But I don't dig. I don't ask where she has been, or with who, or what she did. If she tells me about it, sure I listen and ask related questions. But they see through the digging.

I misplaced my phone and she asked me "oh, can't find it huh? *pause*...did you loose it partying last night?" That's the kind of Q's you see through straight away. She just wanted to know if I was partying last night.

So bottom line of what I think : I can't control what she does, so no need to dig into what she does. I can't control how she acts towards me, but I CAN say no to it then leave or hang up.

This is just how I try to go at it these days, and mind you, it might be the wrong way as well. This is a hard process.

I really don't get how you guys detach. Seems like lots of people including Mr. B were not living under the same roof. even 25 if I get it right you guys weren't under the same roof for awhile. In that case i would guess detaching could be a little easier.

Yeah. We do live seperately. It does make it easier to detach I think.
BUT, it makes it hard showing consistent change. It also means I have a lot of days and nights with out my S, which hurts the most.

If you all live under the same roof now, enjoy and really appreciate the time with your children. If things head towards seperate living arrangements you will regret if you didn't and only focused on W.

[ThisDayForward]

Sorry reading from iPhone and will reRead again later:

3 things I've learned:

1. I can only control ME and not her behavior actions
2. I need to work on myself regardless of the outcome of my marriage
3. Pursue or smothering wife only pushes them further away
4. I have learned to become less reactive

I do feel like everyone says I'm obsessive on here. Isn't part of this forum to post and journal. I mean I'm not reacting to lots of stuff she has done. Remember she tossed a laptop at my head thx giving night and told me to F off. I didn't react etc.

Where am I going wrong with my Dbing?

Am I not in counseling , meditating , I don't pursue her.
Is there a giant piece I'm missing? Besides taking focus off her 100%?

Again thx for reply I'll reRead again.

25 there is a chance no matter what I change that both feet are out the door

[Drew]

25 there is a chance no matter what I change that both feet are out the door

And there's the subtlety you're missing and why you're not really DB'ing.

Think about that. I'm not going to explain it. Yet ...

I believe it's much more powerful if you can see it for yourself.

[ThisDayForward]

Drew what I think you're saying is the changes I should be making are for me only regardless what my W decides to do?

[Drew]

Bingo.

That's the detachment that 25 is trying to get you to see.

You can still care. You just can't let it affect your moods, actions, and attitude.

As long as your changes are ploys just to get her back --- she'll see right through them.

[ThisDayForward]

So when she pulls a hissy and says I'm going out. Just say ok have fun. Don't vent on here about it or give energy to it by talking about it

[theUF]

What I tell myself about detachment. I can try to do what comes across as detached, by acting like this or that. However I think it is easy to see through.
But the more I work on detaching, the more detached my mindset becomes, and the more genuin and natural it becomes.
Detaching is OK. I can always reconsider if things head towards R.

I do feel like everyone says I'm obsessive on here. Isn't part of this forum to post and journal.

Yes, but from what you journal it seems you are pretty far from detached and obsessed about her actions.

She came back just now 45 minutes later and not talking to me. I have no clue. Whole thing was fn strange. Almost like she left for a phone call. I wish I could pull phone records.

Like this. You mindread what she did. You find it fn strange and wish you could find out what she did. That's b/c your attached and focused on her.



We're in the same position about there not being a confirmed OM am I right?

My X showed interest in a guy before BD, flirted with him and even told him she didn't want to friendzone him. I don't know where that stands now BUT

I found out by chance, through my fb events calender, that two days before christmas, while I am home with my S, she will be going to a party. This guy and a couple others are the hosts. So she will be partying with him, TWO days before christmas eve, while I am home alone with S.

It [censored], sure. I would rather it not happen, sure. That one event may be the one thing that destroys any chance at reconciliation. BUT;
I don't ask about it.
I didn't even journal about it.
Because:
-I'm a bit detached.
-I can't control it. All energy put in it, is wasted.
-Asking, wondering, digging etc would only be damaging.
-I will give my attention to S, who deserves it. Not to a woman who is treating me like chit.

I know it's hard man. It would for sure be harder for me if we lived together 24/7.



Say you find the info you seem to need. What will that accomplish?
Say she has an affair or OM. Does that equal divorce? Will you continue DB'ing? What will be you're actions?

Why not continue working on yourself and DB'ing for now? Most affairs get brought to light sooner or later anyway, no?