Next Step, Moving On

[dorightman]

My shrink suggested I might see a psychiatrist for "something to take the edge off temporarily." I haven't made that call yet because I'm scared off the side effects. But maybe your right, maybe I should reconsider. Does anyone have any feedback or experience with this?

[MrBond]

If you decide to take ADs and continued C, etc. DO NOT tell your W. You have to STOP showing her how weak you are and start building up your confidence. The crying episode really set you back but you can recover if you continue to fortify yourself.

The choice of using ADs is up to you. Try a low dosage and see what happens. Above all else, DON'T stop spending time with your kids just to avoid your W. Avoiding your W is just running away from the problem. Face it head on.

[dorightman]

Thanks Bond, Isn't it a shame that crying is perceived as weak.
I've pulled back since my last blowout Sunday night screaming at her over the phone. I'm leaving town for a week and she's been inviting me over to the house to be with the kids, as long as I promise to behave myself. Last night was cool, will do it again tonight and will remain cool. Don't want to Los it anymore from now on. It's essential that I keep it together.
Is it ok for me to spend the night at the hous every once n awhile as long as I can control myself and not punish w or talk about r?

[MrBond]

"Thanks Bond, Isn't it a shame that crying is perceived as weak."

Well it depends on the circumstance, but in that moment it was a moment of weakness.

"I've pulled back since my last blowout Sunday night screaming at her over the phone."

You have to learn to control that. It's not like she's going to disappear from your life forever. She will always be there so you're going to have to learn to deal with it.

"I'm leaving town for a week and she's been inviting me over to the house to be with the kids, as long as I promise to behave myself."

This shows how little she sees you as a partner. It's like she has an extra child to take care of.

"Is it ok for me to spend the night at the hous every once n awhile as long as I can control myself and not punish w or talk about r?"

No. At least not in the beginning. Get yourself emotionally strong first and then casually recommend something that would involve you staying over.

[dorightman]

I'am at my mom's house for christmas, w and kids didn't come. I've been thinking about my switch and feeling down. I have an email from w she wrote a few weeks ago. Will post and am looking for your advice/impressions of her "story". Also want to know if anyone thinks there's any hope at all. I'm not feeling hopeful at the moment. email from w:

I'm sorry. I hate hurting you. I have carried with me so much sadness throughout the years...and yes, our relationship has served to reinforce so many of my problems. It allowed me to be invisible in the ways I believed I needed to be. But the converse of that experience was also missing in our relationship. I didn't shine. I was ignored, mostly. I didn't see a reflection back of myself that I could embrace. I felt dulled, ignored and stifled. I knew you were attached to me, but I felt dispensable a lot of time. I felt like I could be any girl so long as I could cook and clean, not to mention how much more valuable I be if I earned a dime and quit making so many demands. I felt criticized and unappreciated so much of the time and before I became a mother, it was somehow easier to deny my feelings, though never easy. I think deep down I never really loved what I was doing or who I was. But once I became a mother my whole world opened up. I wanted to be seen for all the work I was doing, for the miracle of having created something so spectacular together. I wanted support that was more than financial. I wanted a best friend and partner. For all the efforts you've been putting in recently, you have to remember that mostly you were absent to me. Not because of touring, but when you were here. You were hermited in your room, cut off from the family, resentful, angry, depressed. You showed up to eat and [censored]. And that was it. You told me you only needed a piano and a bowl of rice and this nice lifestyle I "needed" was not what you wanted and that essentially by supporting it, I ruined you. I ruined your finances, your career, your health. This was the ongoing message I received. I started to believe you. I started to listen and hear that I was hurting you and much I felt you were hurting me. I was trying to adapt to family life, adapt to new motherhood and the countless demands it required. I was alone meeting those demands. One of the greatest gifts you have ever given me though was the opportunity to be a stay at home mother. I met every single need I could because of your financial support. It never goes unnoticed or unappreciated. Money cannot ever be enough though, at least not for me. I am relational, social and loving. I don't know how you can tell me I'm not. I'm having a reaction to years upon years of emotional neglect. When you perceived me to fail as a homemaker, I was punished, criticized, mocked. No mention or compassion for how busy I was trying to figure out how to meet the ongoing demands of a child on virtually no sleep. This went on for years. When I sought out ways to do for myself - either through friendships or anything really - you told me how high maintenance I was, how your mother never needed these things...blah, blah, how much we couldn't afford my high off the hog needs. I was never good enough for you. But I fought for our family....way longer than these months you've been fighting. I've been begging for years to wake up to your blessings. I know you went to therapy. I was and am thankful for the efforts. But you didn't go in with an open heart. The message was, "I'm doing this for you. I'd never do this on my own...besides the fact that we can't afford it." My response was always that financially we could find ways to support it, but emotionally the battle was nearing an end for me. The focus had to come off you finally and I needed to start to focus on myself. You cannot criticize that. Not really. How long can you continue to knock on a closed door before you realize no one is going to answer? And when I arrived at the place I am at emotionally and told you that our marriage had died for me, that is when you woke up? Do you realize how much that [censored] for me? This space that I've needed has been all in an effort to get clear. When we're together I feel smothered by your energy, your intensity. I understand it, but its working against what I need. So yes, I see the sacrifice. I see it and I feel it. It pains me more than you know. But our home situation was escalating to such a bad place because neither of our most pressing needs (besides the most basic) were being met. I know how wonderful you are, how brilliant you can be and how much you love your family. I've always encouraged you. I've always been a good friend to you. I've listened, cared and helped you sort so much of your own stuff emotionally. But I needed the same back. And when I got it from friends, you punished me for it. Just imagine what that like for me. Just imagine how alone you feel now and multiply it by years and add two babies under the age of 3 into the mix. Sprinkle on criticism for having those feelings and then give your body to me even though your heart feels battered. That is what I need to recover from. And yes, the wounds pre-exist you. My parents did a number on me. My father was absent always. I've been grieving that for years. But what I am grieving more than anything right now is how I betrayed myself for so long. How I allowed this treatment to go on, how I gave you my body so much when I didn't want to. I am battling my own feelings of self loathing for having gotten stuck in something so toxic, for having failed to get through to you in a time when my heart was still hoping. Go have your anger at me and your hurt, but please let me have mine.

[MrBond]

Okay, I would say you can disregard alot of that message. It sounds like typical MLC talk.

One thing to realize that you FEELINGS to her are real. What parts of the letter are true?

[dorightman]

Some of it is true, but only during rough patches. She makes it sound like the entire 16 years together was like this. It wasn't. There were good times and bad times like any relationship. There was a few years that I fell into depression due to financial struggles and my fathers death. I did say some mean things during this time and I did hermit myself . We grew apart, but she planned an escape while I have been trying to revive our R.
I'am still trying, but it feels like she is stubbornly pursuing a D. I'am into the second month of separation. I will give her the three months and by the end of February I will reevaluate my position.
I made all the mistakes in the past 4 months, and I'am finally strong enough to not get emotional in front of her again. ( I HOPE!)
All of my family are telling me to cut the rope and move on with my life. I still want to save my marriage, but am aware that she must too otherwise it's useless.
Merry Christmas to all !

[MrBond]

"I did say some mean things during this time and I did hermit myself ."

So it was you to begin with.

"We grew apart, but she planned an escape while I have been trying to revive our R."

There is no 'but'. She wants out because of how you acted towards her. It doesn't matter if suddenly YOU want to revive your M. Not everything and everyone should follow your timetable.

"I'am still trying, but it feels like she is stubbornly pursuing a D."

She's not being stubborn. She said what she wanted and is doing everything she can to pursue it.

"I'am into the second month of separation. I will give her the three months and by the end of February I will reevaluate my position."

You're not in a position to "reevaluate" anything. What do you plan to do NOW?

"I made all the mistakes in the past 4 months, and I'am finally strong enough to not get emotional in front of her again. ( I HOPE!)"

I think you need alot more growing in order to be strong. Keep building yourself up.

"All of my family are telling me to cut the rope and move on with my life."

Don't listen to family and friends. It is all up to you.

"I still want to save my marriage, but am aware that she must too otherwise it's useless."

No it is not. It only takes one spouse to make a lasting change that might save a M. The other person has free will to do what they wish, but it takes just one to start the wheels in motion.

You did read DR right?

[mamabird]

Nail,
I hate to say this, or maybe it will help, but I sympathize with your W - a lot. What she's saying to you felt familiar to me. I have to disagree w/Bond. I don't think it's MLC talk. I think that she really felt alienated from you, as much as she didn't want to feel that way.

She said you criticized and punished her and neglected her. Did you? Was this your insecurities talking? Did you really not appreciate her as much as she says? These are deep, deep, deep hurts, my friend. She is saying she gave you her body, but what she's not saying is that she felt used, she felt taken advantage of, she felt like you did not cherish her. You did not cherish her.

I am sure that at some point, she wanted nothing to be your queen, and instead she felt that you made her your garbage dump. Now, you're crying in front of her. My H is also depressed and went through a period of screaming at me and berating me, threatening to D me, throwing my stuff on the lawn, just acting like a lunatic. My mom's BF, who is over 80 but who was quite the ladies' man in his day, said, "Why would you want to be with someone so weak? Your W does not want to be with anyone weak. She is sick of it, she is over it, and what she WANTS is someone STRONG, someone who can take care of her, someone who is going to be her HERO, someone who is going to put her needs first, to put his arm around her, kiss her and tell her thank you for everything you do honey. You made her feel like a failure, a bad W, maybe even a bad person and bad mother.

It doesn't matter that this wasn't the norm, it doesn't matter how many good times you had. It doesn't matter that you provided, were a good dad, made dinner, did chores around the house or any of that. If that's how you think you showed her your love, you failed. She did not feel loved by you.

What matters is that you did something to violate her like this. Trust me, she is angry, resentful and feels completely ignored and violated. She has felt stuck in this M for a long time. She stayed because she had 2 young ones and wanted to try with you, and for them. But when she tried, you shut her out even more, and now this is what she's left with. The woman is leaving you so she can save herself.

Sorry Nail, I know this is harsh. But I get it, I soooooo get where she's coming from. This is not MLC talk, do not blow it off. Did your wife have an A? I can't remember, but these would have been perfect conditions for her to have one if she didn't.

[MrBond]

I disagree with Regretful. I didn't say that it's all MLC talk. In fact, much of what she is complaining about has real issues behind them. The part where it becomes MLC talk is when she says it's ALWAYS been about this or that. There are ALWAYS good times and bad. The difference is to remember the good AND that bad and not to hold onto resentment. Many times these resentments grow and fester because they aren't communicated or the person believes that the other won't listen. It's a process that both sides need to know the right tools to how to handle this.

Yes she did not feel loved by you and also there were times when you didn't feel loved by her. I didn't say to "BLOW OFF" your W's feelings. Understand that to her it's real. But we're all human. We ALL make mistakes.