Changing Directions

[mamabird]

One more update for tonight:
I had a meeting downtown and came home around 9. H ignored me, per usual. Didn't ask how my meeting was (this is a pet peeve of mine). But, I didn't get upset. I just asked him how his day was.

Then I told him that I didn't want to go back to that therapist.

His response? "Well, what do you want to do?"

I said I had another therapist recommendation and he said he wasn't going to another therapist. Fine, I said. Then he said he was going to move out in Feb.

GREAT!!! Can I help him pack???

I didn't get mad, didn't get upset, didn't raise my voice. Just said ok. He said he originally thought it would be a trial separation, but...

He didn't like that I previously said we should see a lawyer for a separation agreement. Do people think that's necessary for a trial separation? What's the advice here?

I basically decided that I am worth much more than the way I'm being treated, and I told him that.

He spent the rest of the evening being depressed. I wrapped Christmas gifts.

I think I've finally come to the realization that we need the time apart. I probably have oats to sow since I keep seeking other men. I hear the other women on here saying they only want their H, not interested in anyone else. That is definitely not true for me, obviously and I have to finally look at that and take it for what it is.

I probably do need some external validation.... just to get my own internal validation going again. There are so many things that H is not. I think of the men on here who are trying so hard, and compare to what my H is doing and I know I can do better.

I married the boy next door. Our R was built on a mutual comfort and a feeling like we "got" each other. We have a lot of the same tastes and had some of the same friends growing up. We enjoyed a lot together when we first were together. He still makes me laugh. But his depression and insecurities are just too much for me to handle, and I know I have my own sh!t to work out. I'm angry a lot and I need to stop living like that.

[25yearsmlc]

One more update for tonight:
I had a meeting downtown and came home around 9. H ignored me, per usual. Didn't ask how my meeting was (this is a pet peeve of mine). But, I didn't get upset. I just asked him how his day was.

Then I told him that I didn't want to go back to that therapist.

His response? "Well, what do you want to do?"

I said I had another therapist recommendation and he said he wasn't going to another therapist. Fine, I said. Then he said he was going to move out in Feb.

GREAT!!! Can I help him pack???

I didn't get mad, didn't get upset, didn't raise my voice. Just said ok. He said he originally thought it would be a trial separation, but...

He didn't like that I previously said we should see a lawyer for a separation agreement. Do people think that's necessary for a trial separation? What's the advice here?


Hate this answer but, "it depends". Depends on whether your state even recognizes them as legal (if you are in CA, they do) and it depends on why you are separating. I filed for a sep b/c I wanted h to NOT mortgage our home and assets to "invest with the heroes" on the tundra, which I'm fairly confident he at least considered doing.

Some file for sep and Never div, b/c they need the health insurance. That issue will become moot in 2-3 years with the new health plan (UNLESS things change and that's a different topic).

Some file for sep b/c they think it's just a "time out" or a "trial" thing

BUT THEY FILE for financial security or predictability

b/c they are not sure what their spouse will do with assets

OR if the h will pay CS that is reasonable or on time (most non custodial parents do NOT pay the right amount OR on time, without a court order).

Be careful what you sign though, b/c it often ends up being the "final" agreement b/c hey, after all, it was enough for you before...

and some sign nothing but wait a few months and see how they feel,

and reconcile OR file for divorce. About a third of divorce cases filed in California are never completed so surely some of them do reconcile.

In your case a lot would depend on how financially Safe you feel with him in charge of most of the money.

From where I sit, you don't feel very trusting in that area, and he does have a double standard about his OW activities so he'd probably justify cheating with money

and I apologize in advance if I do a disservice to him there.

But if we're going to advise you here (and it's NOT Legal advice, just personal gut feelings)

then I say better safe than sorry.



I basically decided that I am worth much more than the way I'm being treated, and I told him that.

He spent the rest of the evening being depressed. I wrapped Christmas gifts.


nice visual contrast


I think I've finally come to the realization that we need the time apart.

agreed


I probably have oats to sow since I keep seeking other men.

anyone who has cheated could say that, no offense. OTOH, when I dated while we were legally sep (which I did not do a lot of, but it was validating for the most part)

I also found I missed some things about h I didn't appreciate enough before. He's smarter than most men, and more educated and he's not threatened by me being educated or earning a lot of money (he OVER does that preference). My h is in good physical shape and that's a bigger deal to me than I realized.

He is also funny and gets my jokes and since I do some comedy,that matters a LOT to me. Laughter is a big fat bonding thing.

but the point is, he seemed like a better catch when I compared him to most OMs.
So who knows? Your h and you may both come out ahead if you date OPs...I'm not promising that but I can say it mainly is what I experienced.

I also met some truly kind fun men. They exist. I chose to stay married to my h NOT b/c I feared being alone. And I dont' think you'll be alone for long if you don't want to be.

But it might be what you need. (read the book "A Year by the Sea" -you'll love it)


MORE Later....computer's battery is dying...


I hear the other women on here saying they only want their H, not interested in anyone else. That is definitely not true for me, obviously and I have to finally look at that and take it for what it is.

I probably do need some external validation.... just to get my own internal validation going again. There are so many things that H is not. I think of the men on here who are trying so hard, and compare to what my H is doing and I know I can do better.

I married the boy next door. Our R was built on a mutual comfort and a feeling like we "got" each other. We have a lot of the same tastes and had some of the same friends growing up. We enjoyed a lot together when we first were together. He still makes me laugh. But his depression and insecurities are just too much for me to handle, and I know I have my own sh!t to work out. I'm angry a lot and I need to stop living like that.

[25yearsmlc]

ps

in case I wasn't clear, See a Lawyer asap before you separate financially or physically

[JuneReN]

Yes. Absolutely. Often, we can rely on what is known as the guilt factor. That is the WAS feels guilt and is willing to be exceedingly generous. In your sitch it is different. You need to find out your rights, a time frame and I think to get things in writing.
,he originally thought it would be a trial separation, and apparently it won't be.

Congratulations actually, for arriving to this spot. Personally I have watched you work your way here for three months. What a wonderful place to come and get the support you need while making the tough decisions.

You do need to gain some detachment and clarity on this sitch, so in this instance S looks like it may help with that (((())))

[hopefulinga]

I am always amazed at how similiar our H's seem to be. It's kind of scary.

Listen to all that 25 told you. See a lawyer and get some clarity. Even though I am a lawyer, I am not a family lawyer, so I consulted one and have her on standby in case I need her.

The mediator I chose is a family lawyer as well that's been around for over 30 years, and his dad was a juvenille court judge. I also chose someone that I thought H would listen to, and a male because I thought he'd thumb his nose at a female trying to tell him something.

I am not familiar with CA laws at all, but I can tell you practically why I want a S agreement, even for a trial S. I want to make sure I don't get scr3w3d if H decides he really doesn't want to be my friend. I also know he's wishy washy (see my example of "you can have what ever you want" vs "You're taking your stove?"). I need to protect me and D. It is especially important for me because most of the assets are in H's name.

I also want something in place so that if we don't R, we've agreed while we are still cordial and on speaking terms. I really hope it doesn't go that way, but one can never tell. And my H is such a bully, he would do what he could to make my life difficult.

Since I am the one doing everything around here, I want an agreement on taking D to the drs that are out of town and taking the dogs to the vet. Is H going to step up on this stuff? Or will I have to continue to take time out of my life to do it all when he claims he wants 50/50 custody (which is code for "I don't want to have to be bound to pay you anything").

Sorry to hijack your thread a little, but wanted to give you some examples of why I feel like I need to be protected, even during a trial separation. Think of things in your life that you would want and want to be protected. Especially since you are not in a full time permanent job.

You have courage in getting to where you are. I felt like you would get here because our journeys seem to be so parallel. I can tell you that I feel a lot better now that I am living my life for me. I am still angry but it is not consuming me. Part of my still wants my H, but I think it is the fantasy of the old H that is not here right now. I don't want the cranky H. I don't have the time or energy to look for an OM right now.

I am by no means saying that where you are at is easy. But I believe that it will be a load off of you. And it will be easier than if H dropped his plan on you at the end of January and left you in some sort of shock. You have some direction and idea of what is going through his mind.

(((((((LA)))))

[labug]

I know you sitch has changed a bit over the last 24 hours but I don't think it changes your questions or my answers.

So bug, what was the hole that needed to be filled - for you?

What I've realized just in the past few weeks is that I have a lot more issues to overcome than I thought I had. A lot of insecurity and fear, for starters... lack of self-compassion, as my H pointed out. Not feeling worthy, as evidenced by my reaction to the encounter with Hot Guy. Fear of not being "good enough" - this is learned over years of suffering H's judgment and being made to feel "less than". The idea that if I don't behave in a certain way or conform to someone else's standard that I'm just not good enough.

My issues were much the same but I know exactly where they came from and it wasn't H. I brought it all into the marriage and had no idea how to resolve it. He got the brunt of my reacting out of fear because he was there.

These are all your issues to work on. Perhaps you married someone you thought could save you?

I also have the feeling that I will not be able to really break out of these patterns while married to H. H feels insecure so puts judgment on me to "keep me down" so to speak. I used to be a much freer spirit.

Don't accept his judgment of you.
I thought other people were judging me because I judged other people.
I thought I had to work harder than other to be the model employee, to be liked. And I judged those who, in my eyes, didn't work as hard.
In the quest to be liked, I kept opinions to myself but became resentful and angry...and more resentful and angry.
I thought others didn't like me because, how could they? I didn't like myself.

These were all for me to figure out and work on. No one else can give you self-esteem, no one else can give you what it takes to like yourself.

I need to become a kinder, gentler person... I need to learn to let go of anger and be more zen.... to "act spiritually" even if I don't want to and it's hard. This is the person I want to become.

So what's keeping you from doing those things? You have the power.

What are you really afraid of?

Have you ever heard about the drama triangle? If not, google it.

So this is what I'm working with Bug. I know I need to get "me" back, and not just that, I need to make some improvements. I know I can do it, but I also know that I work better when I have support. I have a lot of friends, I am fine in that dept, and I have you guys. I have a good IC. I wish I could say I'd be fine without a BF but right now I don't feel that way.

We all work better with support but we don't always have support or the sup[port we might want.

That's an excuse.

Again, what are you really afraid of?

[ThisDayForward]

25 I need some help again.

[mamabird]

Thanks guys. I just had my session with my IC. I seem to be pretty clear that it's time for a break. Good advice on seeing a L. I'm definitely considering it a "trial" separation but in H's mind that means no lawyers. It's probably a good idea though to just talk to a L to make sure that my bases are covered. I have a good friend going through a D right now and there was no trial separation. She said she wanted D and asked him to leave.

When I told IC about what had happened at the party, he said, "What's the Universe telling you?" (this is how we CA people think!) Seriously though, call it the Universe, call it a message from God... however you want to look at it - I call it a wake up call.

I probably have oats to sow since I keep seeking other men.

anyone who has cheated could say that, no offense.

25 - No offense taken. Pretty clear that that's true. I could have dealt with my anger towards H in many other ways... though in the case of OM1 it wasn't about being angry at H.

Bug - I don't even feel like the sitch has changed. I feel like I've finally reached the end of the path for now. H has been threatening to move out for months and finally I stopped caring. Is that a sitch change? I don't know.

My issues - well, I think I've said this on here before but I grew up with kind of this skewed view of myself. Went through high school feeling like an ugly duckling. I was kind of nerdy, but not nerdy enough to want to date the nerds. I kind of had no home. Not cool enough to be with the cool kids either. I certainly didn't feel attractive.

That changed when I got to college, but I never really had a boyfriend in college either. For some reason it never worked out. I probably was over eager and it showed. But in the end, I walked away with the impression that I was not good enough. I didn't believe that I was.

My fear, Bug, is fear of rejection. And the fear of failure.

But now, I've been rejected by my H for 6 months (and longer, just not as awfully)... and I've lived through it. I got rejected by my horrible boss for years, and I lived through it.

At the beginning of the summer, I felt like I was a complete failure - couldn't make the job work out, couldn't make the relationship work out. Then I started to think about all the boyfriends I didn't have, all the jobs that didn't work out.

On the other hand, I was married for 11 years, and worked at my job almost as long (10.5 years). So is that a failure? Or is it that I've changed beyond the limits of what those two things had to offer me?

Drama triangle - that's certainly interesting. I bet you see me as the victim Bug. But I would see myself more as the rescuer. My H is not a rescuer type, but in the last few years I've felt that I need much more of that. Maybe we're both victims now and there's no rescuer. I am sure I was looking to OM1 to fill that role. I know I was.

So yes, now I am working on me, and working on becoming that person that I want to be. Mach 1 challenged me on this. I want to start by being less angry and more joyful. More accepting and less judging. I have no more excuses not to be that way. I don't even feel angry at H (at the moment).

Now it is time to get up and dust myself off. Put on my game face and move forward. I've heard a saying that goes something like, "It's not how you fall, it's how you get up that matters." And I think that has to be true.

[mamabird]

One thing I forgot to say here. When H said he was moving out, I said, "What about dating other people?" He said he was in no position to date other people. I said, "what if I want to date other people?" He said, "I don't care what you do."

I am sure that isn't true.

[JuneReN]

I believe in the Universe and am not even from CA...lol. Call it what you will I think we are connected if we just listen hard enough.

The Universe has frantically been beating on my door and today I listened. The hamsters stopped running and I am walking around with a little smile on my face, so I know the choice was right.

Does it make the choices any easier? Will I feel this way tomorrow? Even this afternoon? I don't know. But you you reached the point where you did not care that he left, you listened.

I saw an L. H was upset, felt it put us on an uneven playing field lol! He makes all the money, I pretty much stayed at home, what field were you looking at?

Mediators are good too and agree with Bug, get one who is a veteran mediator and lawyer. Ask your lawyer to recommend one, they are usually in the know.