hrm, Your h is not happy that you questioned him about the dinner. Most likely the dinner isn't the truth. He may have thought he had you fooled. Mlcers don't like to be questioned about their schedules and what they are doing most of the time.
Oh, btw, he wasn't happy that you pointed out his little vodka party on Sunday. They hate for us to point out the error of their ways. But most importantly...you joked about it. I'm sure he was fuming. But, hey, you told him what was the honest truth and just like a teenager, he's got to learn what life is all about.
Hrm, it's going to be very interesting around your home this holiday season. Buckle up and have your video cam ready!
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I said something to the effect of, "That's good, after the vodka thing Sunday I wouldn't be a party person either." He didn't respond, just seemed SUPER annoyed. I asked, "What too soon to make a vodka joke?" He barked no at me. I said I was sorry for the joke and walked away.
You may want to think about holding off on the jokes/teasing/whatever right now. H was probably (correctly) embarrassed about the Sunday vodka experiment and the joking (before he is ready) just brought up those feelings again. Guys can be particularly sensitive to joking/mocking...its that pride thing and not wanting to admit that mistakes were made. And we all know that mlc'ers have lost their sense of humor. I know I tried joking/teasing with W a few times to let her know something wasn't a big deal or such, it never went over well. I have stopped for now, unless she jokes about it first...keeping that road paved as smooth as possible...
The lies...*sigh*...they do that, we know that. And they know that at some level, that omitting info is still a lie, just like outright falsehoods. Patience, forgiveness. The truth wants to, and will be known, sooner or later, right?
Hang in there!
T^2
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
wishing, hoping ~ I really think that too sometimes.... I just want to say, really? You think I buy that?? But I don't I just smile and take it.
Sunny~Thank you! Those angry days do svck, but the good news is they pass, you just need to work yourself through it. Those days are usually the ones I find myself a sobbing, praying mess on the floor, but I always feel better after.
mizjjd~ Oh if only they had the forethought to realize lying hurts more!
snodderly~Yeah, it's going to be interesting indeed! On the up side I'm at a much better place, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually than I was last year... thing is he isn't, but I'm not letting that affect me.
T~Ah yes I see the error of my way. It's still hard to get the no joking thing (well they can joke with anyone but US). Guess I forgot because joking was ok in his drunken state the day before..... oh well. I was hoping I didn't push him into changing his mind about going to the party to prove a point. I very well may have. IDK, time will tell.
H oddly didn't go to the gym this morning.... when I was finished getting ready for work I went out to the kitchen where he was making egg sandwiches..... strange. Yes he asked if I would like one, I said sure and thanked him.
Later when he was in the shower something compelled me to look at his phone, and I have decided he thinks I look at it waaaaay more than I do, I am pretty sure he leaves things in there in an attempt to make me angry or start a fight, like what I had read the other week and the Christmas party. The thing is nothing is really phasing me any more. I guess this is detachment?
Anyway, this mornings texts that I saw were between him and that male co-worker, about the Christmas party. He told co-worker he was going to go. The co-worker said his wife was so excited and he better not stand her up, and then made some sexual reference about his W and my H..... um.... EEEWWWWW!!! H made some comment about not disappointing her, I'm pretty sure I rolled my eyes as I was reading it! LOL H asked it's at 6 right? Co-worker said 6-11. That was about it for the conversation.
The good news is, I didn't really care. He's the one doing the wrong thing, he's the one who will have to deal with the guilt someday, and who will have to answer for it someday, and me getting upset isn't going to change a blessed thing. So I will just keep on praying and being my typical happy self.
When he came back out to the living room area this morning I causally said, "You have a match on Saturday right?" H said yes, seemed ok with me asking. I said something about and you have to get up early for that right? He said yeah why do you need something. I said nope, I was just trying to remember, I'm not really going to be here much Saturday either.
I gathered up all the stuff I needed for work and said, "Have a good day, and have fun at your work dinner tonight." He just said yeah or something. Once I got downstairs I yelled up, "Oh and thanks again for the egg sandwich." I don't remember his response to that.
So who knows if there really is a work dinner right now or not, but he's not here and I'm not going to lose any sleep over it, this is God's mess to sort out and I keep reminding myself God doesn't need me to intervene in any way.
Also, it's really stupid of him to go to the party tomorrow considering I know when and where it is, because it's always at the same place. He doesn't know if I would show up and make a scene. Don't worry, I am NOT doing that, NOOOOOOO way!!!!! Oddly enough I will be up that way Christmas shopping tomorrow evening. LOL
The joking thing...yup, anyone but us...last night I was getting a glass of water with W in the kitchen, I almost asked her jokingly if I was "using the water correctly" to fill my glass ... but caught myself... gotta stay out of my own way...
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
Wow I don't even know where to begin to start with this one. It will be a long one.... So Friday evening I ended up going out to dinner with a friend instead of Christmas shopping. Thought everything was fine. H tried to call me I didn't hear the phone, so when I see the call I text him and ask if everything is ok, he said it's fine but he needs to talk to me and asked when I would be home. I said I wasn't sure. He said not to worry about it, he will talk to me the next day.
Well I was out all day Saturday, so this morning I went downstairs to where H was watching tv and said you wanted to talk to me? He said never mind, he changed his mind. I said ok.... then he said he's done. I said done with what? He's says I'm done with all the drama! I told you this was over and you aren't listening! I asked what drama he was talking about since I haven't seen him in 3 days. He kept acting like I knew what he was talking about.
I finally got it out of him. Apparently my dear friend and seen his car parked at where they were holding his work party and she texted him and in his words, threatened him, I talked to her later, that's not true, she was looking out for the both of us, but MLCer's don't like ultimatums, so that was the only part of the text he focused on and the only part he told me about. He told me she had said she knew he told me he didn't lie to me and she knows he's at the party, if he didn't tell me by Saturday night she would (Later when I talked to her she filled me in on the parts he had let out, like how she started out with I wouldn't be a good friend to either of you if I didn't say something, then the part about the party and then she ended with missing the old, fun H and she had just meant hearing it from him would have been better than from her). I asked if he had talked to her about it because I was sure she didn't mean for it to sound threatening, he said no because he answers to no one.
So I got monster spew out the wazoo..... I pointed out this wasn't my fault. He went on to say he thought I knew about it and had people following him! I said absolutely not I'm not psychotic! To which he replied, how would I know? At that point calm flew out the window for me. I said I knew she had been working up that way that night and went out for a drink with a co-worker after, not my fault they went to the bar in the hotel the Christmas party was in. I guess he still didn't believe me. He went on to say his business is none of my business anymore, I said we are still married, he said only on paper sweetheart (at which point I wanted to punch him). I said whatever you have to tell yourself to make you feel better.
He fed me some line about leaving work early, doing something else that went wrong so he changed his mind and went to the party because male co-worker had been hounding him about it (gee the grain of truth in all the BS), and he thought he'd have dinner with male co-worker and his W..... in his mind no lying, nothing wrong. He went on to say male co-worker is such a good friend and has a GREAT life, beautiful wife, kids, etc...... after he stated he didn't want kids!!! I said is it really worth it trying to impress people who don't really matter?? And so what you have a great wife, and you don't see how lucky you are!!!! He was so pissed he re-stated how done he was and he was leaving. I said if you are so miserable that why are you still here???? He said he's filing tomorrow. I said fine, whatever you want to do. Re-stated how good he has it and how he doesn't realize how lucky is really it and then stormed upstairs to get ready for church.
He came up a few minutes later and kept going off about how he doesn't answer to anyone and said my dear friend is a bad influence on me (oooookkkkk). He said he had been thinking about asking me to go away with him for a weekend for awhile, but not anymore! (At which point I was thinking if you are so done why would you be thinking about that, but I didn't say anything). I said that's great, I'm being punished for something someone else did, I can't control other people! I was a sobbing mess at this point on the floor.
I went on the say you just don't get it, I'm not losing my H I'm losing my best friend, and I again listed all the things I would miss. I even added that we have a niece that I don't even know if I will get to meet and that's just sad, because if I can't have kids of my own at least I could be a really great aunt.
At which point he softened from monster and started apologizing. He said try to understand he was feeling attacked and feeling like I don't listen to him. I told him I understand and I understand what he is saying but understanding isn't accepting. He sat down on the bed pulled me up to sit with him. He said he didn't understand how I put up with him. I told him because he's my husband and I love him. I also said I miss him. I asked him if I could show him something. He said yes. I pulled out a scrapbook I had recently made of a the wonderful surprise trip he had taken me on for my 30th birthday. He enjoyed looking at it. We sat on the bed together in silence for awhile. He hugged me. He again said you win. I said it's not a competition, he said, "shhh." He was teary eyed and he asked how do we get past this.
I told him we are a team and we have always made it through anything life has thrown our way. I said we would work through it. He again apologized for everything he has done to me, I told him I forgive him. I told him I know we had a good marriage before, but I know we could have a great marriage in the future. He said what have I done? And he said I made him realize everything he would be giving up this morning.
Later he asked if I wanted to see pictures of the baby (I had earlier asked if he had had any) I said yes. We sat on the couch together and he showed me pictures. I asked does this mean I get to meet her? He said I think we can arrange that. Later he told me about a bunch of matches throughout the year, and said he has some more trophies to hang on the wall. He talked about me going with him to matches. He again asked something about how or why I put up with all this. I said because you are my husband and I love you, in good times and bad, joy and sorrow, sickness and health, I took those vows seriously. He said I'm sorry that I haven't. He also said he's changed a lot this past year.... said he doesn't get upset as easily (which I almost laughed at due to the earlier explosion). It was quite a moment. Later he went out with his brother, for his birthday. He was with the rest of the family too.
When he got home he was not the same. He was guarded and distant again. I knew the puppet master had been pulling the strings. I was in the kitchen baking cookies when he came in and wanted to talk. He said he was willing to try and work on things, but he doesn't want me to have any expectations (good thing I've been DB), or to get my hopes up, and there are things he likes now that he doesn't want to change. I asked like what. He said he's become closer to his shooting buddies, they are like family, I said that's fine I would never ask you to change that. He said he's closer to his mother (great) and sister, I said I've never stood in the way of any of your relationships, why would I now? He also went on to say I have to just stand up to his mother (yeah, ok) but that's not something I have to worry about right now.
He said right now what he's really liked about this past year is his freedom and shooting whenever. I pointed out I've never stopped him from going to any match EVER. I have never controlled him, he's just being selfish and not wanting to do anything but what HE wants to do (no I didn't say this to him).
I asked what his family said, and his response pissed me off. He said they are "concerned" about us getting back together. WTH?!?!? Then I realize I'm dealing with crazy people...normal people would want their family member to be happily married, especially to someone they were happily married to and gee, hasn't done a damn thing to deserve this! I told him I was a little offended by that. He went on to say he's stubborn and makes his own decisions and he's going to do what he wants to do, not what anyone else tells him. He's also standing by not feeling any love for me (which I think is crazy, and well part of the depression, which he still swears he's super great!)
He's absolutely refusing counseling again (I'm sure the family had something to do with that, they are all anti-help). He said he's glad it worked for me but he works through his own problems and he doesn't think a third party needs to be involved. He thinks we can talk through it, and have the hard talks. I said we can do that, but he needs to hear things I think that need changed too it can't be one sided. He enacted another sex ban. I think he does this because he feels our emotional connection then and it confuses him more.
So my expectations are securely planted at zero since I think he has a lot more internal work to do..... I am cautiously optimistic, because this is some progress I guess.... but I'm also terrified.....
Any and all thoughts and comments are welcome.....thank you all in advance.
hrm, I'm very sorry to hear that you had an upsetting weekend, especially w/the holidays right around the corner. However, the first item on your agenda may be to have a talk w/your friend and advise her no more conversations w/your h about your situation. Even though she meant well, she should never have done what she did, i.e., it was none of her business. She doesn't understand all of the ins and outs of mlc and how it turns around and bites you on the @ss.
You didn't need to be put in the hot seat and, of course, he blamed you first because they always lash out at the ones closest to them. Never in his wildest dreams did he think that others could connect the dots and when confronted, he was taken aback and the guilt of what he was doing kicked in. You were the target, not your friend.
I can understand why your h was so upset and angry. Here he thinks he's free as a bird and it appears that "mom" has someone spying on him. He didn't like it and he sure didn't like her stepping in and having a conversation w/him. In his eyes, spying and telling him the what for didn't bode well w/him. One good thing that came out of this is that he got all of his feelings off his chest and told you just how he felt. Yes, he was done at that time and it's still in the back of his mind even though he said he would try to work on things w/you. "Done" and "leaving" are always there as an escape route when things get tough.
As for your inlaws, maybe they see him as moving out and providing them w/money and support. We don't know what he's told them about the situation. Maybe they don't like sharing him w/you and your family. They are very odd.
Don't push the counseling card w/him. He's stubborn and he's going to try to work things out for himself but it's not going to work for him. As for the sex ban...you hit it on the nail head...the emotional connection is too difficult for him right now. He's one confused individual.
I hate to say this, but he's going to be even paranoid for quite some time, thanks to your friend. He's not going to rest easy for a long time because he's going to be looking over his shoulder to see if you or someone else is following him and spying on him. The best thing to do is just ignore this behavior and continue doing what you've been doing, i.e., living your life.
The holidays are always difficult for the mlcer because it brings out the guilt and shame more often than not. Little things will trigger anger and the "fight or flight" feelings for them. I'm not making excuses for their behavior, but I've seen quite a bit of this behavior especially around the Christmas holidays.
I do hope today is a better day for you. I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Wow, what a weekend you had! In addition to what Snodderly wisely said, I wonder if "the puppet master" and her minions are putting pressure on H...didn't he say something about "being a man having drinks in his own house" when he had his vodka party last Sunday? Also, how is the pressure for him at work? Seems lots of "control" statements lately from H. This can be an issue for men who aren't in mlc, but throw mlc in the mix and it's fanatical focus on control...yikes!
I do think you got some valuable info from H, though, a peek into where he is at. Seems like we are in this sloooowww motion dance, eh? I applaud you for being honest with H regarding what his family said.
Quote:
He also went on to say I have to just stand up to his mother
Yeah, true....BUT...H is going to have to figure out how to stand up for his WIFE with her/them sooner or later. You deserve no less, and anything less is disrespectful to you, the marriage, and, if you think about it, to H and his family...and H does need to be a big boy, ya know? And make his own decisions, and...oh...wait...
Funny how all these little pieces can fit together into a very strange puzzle.
Hang in there!!
T^2
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
I recognize the dance steps I suggest that you step back and realize that this is something that he did and for a little while, he'll feel relieved. But since you're not really the issue, it'll come up again. The weirdness, the craziness, the anger, the spew. He's fighting something internally, and he doesn't know how. You may have been the release valve for this time around. Be careful of that and be careful to not let him suck you into it. It'll be a possibility that he'll channel his anger at you and you'll become the vessel that holds the muck, so to speak. You don't want to be associated with the anger. My suggestion is to go back to zero and not even see this as progress. This is him venting and staying connected, but he's obviously afraid and still "cooking". Hence the sex ban and keeping you at arms reach.
He's not done, but he's fighting to move in *some* direction. Go back to the way you were and stay at a distance. It's just a question of time before the anger needs a place to vent again...
If you ask me, part of his issue really is in growing up and standing up to his parents. He doesn't know what that means yet. That's a common theme by the way. I've seen it many times and first hand in my own situation (still - ugh). Keep your distance firmly but kindly...
AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
HRM, I remember very little from my MLC but a tidbit to back up what AJM said about the dance steps.
I was at a basketball game with my now EX-W in the middle of the MLC. Some gentleman said after speaking with my wife at the time said to me what a beautiful, smart lady you have there.
I was thinking she is the biggest POS, and the cause of all my troubles, thinking you can have her and I will be on easy street. That night laying in bed I thought why can't they see how she really is. They have no idea. Then 20 seconds later maybe there is something wrong with me. Then a minute later back to the she is the casue of all my problems and the anger had taken over again. The flips would happen once in a while but overall just a total mess.
Don't get to wrapped up yet with where he is right now. It takes some time to come out of the MLC mess. All I can say is when /if that time comes you will know.
