<So I am wondering, if you had an opportunity to sit down with X1, what would you want her to know about the demise of that M?> Probably a lot. But the biggest thing that I think turned me off was how much weight she gave other people's opinions of her. She gave them too much power over her feelings. I should have told her that's how I felt. It seems small, but it really affects your perception of the other person...to a degree, and I know this sounds harsh, I would loss a little bit of respect every time she broke due to others perceptions...
<What do you feel was the most important thing you learned from the demise of M1?> I need to share my feelings, even if they are not so good, especially if they are not so good.
<What is one thing you would never do again, in relation to M1?> Well, this is easy, it's the same thing I never want to do again in relation to M1 or 2. I never want to disengage/escape. I never want to see something that I am unhappy with and do nothing about it.
<What would you do all over again, in relation to M1?> I would tell her in the nicest way I good that she needs to work to get her self-worth higher. Because this affected my view of her.
Take note: all these things are about communicating. It's not so much the tings I would do. I know what I wanted to see and change - I just didn't communicate it. Why? Well with M1 I didn't think it would make a difference...mmm, actually, to be real, I don't think I was prepared to deal with the backlash, with the headache that would come with it...
<if you had an opportunity to sit down with X2, what would you want her to know about the demise of that M?> I know this without a thought - I am angry that she didn't tell me how important to her me being engaged was. She did to me what I did to M1. M2 didn't tell me there were things that needed to be changed for her to continue to be happy. I didn't tell M1 the same thing.
What do you feel was the most important thing you learned from the demise of M2? <being aware, that's it, being aware. If I wanted to be disengaged and it was a conscience choice so be it. But it wasn't, I didn't know...I will never "not know" again. Every night I take 10min with all media off and have a conversation with myself. What am I not seeing, what am I not admitting, what am I unconsciously trying to disengage from...
<What is one thing you would never do again, in relation to M2?> I will never take it for granted that I can keep going down the same road and just hope that it will get better. Even though I didn't know what the problem was, I knew there was a problem. I could have taken us to counseling 6 mnths, a year before and I might have found out why she was unhappy, might have found out that I was trying to escape...
<What would you do all over again, in relation to M2?> I would stand up and take the lead. I would get up and make things happen. Uh...all these things are so easy to do when put up against getting a D.
A few posts back, you indicated that you were taking ownership of your disengagement from both Ms. That is great and it is a big part of what we focus on. Owning our own responsibilities and doing something to positively change those things in us.
Aside from disengaging from X1 and X2:
What else might you have done different in either Ms to make positive changes to the Ms?
What do you think X1's top three complaints about you, were?
What do you think X2's top three complaints about you, were?
<What else might you have done different in either Ms to make positive changes to the Ms?> That's a tough question. I really only see two things that I could have done. One we defined as engaging or not escaping - and I see that under the "communication" umbrella. The second is all about me and nothing about them. Actually, now that I think about it it all falls under engaging. Weather engaging in the M or engaging in my own personal life outside of the M. You see, I wanted so much more than I was asking for in each M but for the most part, and more so in the second M, I didn't ask for it or pursue it. I should have done both in both Ms. As for M1 it might have been a mistake from the beginning. I don't say this as a regret, because I don't regret it. But I lied to her. She asked me over and over again, and I lied. What was the point in telling her the truth to that question? It would only hurt her like hell and possibly end our relationship. And what will I do now? Will I have to do the same thing to a future relationship if it turns out not to be with X2? What I am talking about is how I love X2. I am not confident about many things right now, but I am confident in this - I know how I love X2, I know how I loved X2 in 9th grade. And M1 knew that. She knew about X2, the high-school sweetheart version of X2. She knew, well, she just knew. And she would ask, do you still love her, is she still in your heart...I would say of course not, that was years ago, that was high school. But I knew I was lying - but what was the point of telling a girl that there was another girl that I loved to that degree?
<What do you think X1's top three complaints about you, were?"> The first, at least early on, even before getting M, but while living together was what I already brought up. Her knowing deep down how I felt for another girl. All she wanted was to be loved by me to at least the same degree. The second would be me not standing up for her when it came to my family, or more specifically to my sister. My sis didn't "work well" with X1. My sis is a very independent, strong willed, confident person. X1 was a very smart, entrepreneurial, had loads of friends, great with family, heck, after university she went overseas and taught English in South Korea while i was finishing up college...all that said, deep down, she needed to be approved. Especially by my sis, she wanted so much to get my sisters' acceptance, my sister saw this, and was not going to do it. I should have stood up more for X1 with my sis. X1 wanted me to stand up for her more. Third, I guess how I handled stress. My company moved out of my city once and I lost my job. It took 5 months to find another and I was a wreck. I was stressed and rude and angry and not very proud of myself during those months. I hated it and handled it in an awful way. We were actually fine financially, we ad saving just for a thing like that but it didn't seem to matter.
<What do you think X2's top three complaints about you, were?> These are 3 things I can take from how she communicated to me at times. But importantly, she never actually "complained" about anything, she would brings things up, she would ask if I thought that was the best way to do it but she would never complain and she would never "tell" me do anything. First, second, and third: all the things she would hint or or question all have to do with one thing - me engaging in life, me doing things, me being the one to suggest things, me saying hey let's go to the bank and see what kind of mortgage we could get, me coming up with a weekend plan for us and my step-daughter. Getting the picture?
I am going to jump right into competing commitments, here.
I'm wording this as though it is correct, understand that I realize this could be incorrect and feel free to correct me on any points.
For some reason, you "settled" for X1, knowing you were still pining for school sweetheart. You led X1 on to believe that you loved her and were committed to her, yet you concede you were lying to her. That, I think, is said in hind sight. I think that you were lying to yourself. That at some point in time, you convinced yourself that you were truly committed to X1 and loved her enough to M her and spend the rest of your life with her. Forgoing any future relationship with anyone, including childhood sweetheart.
What likely happened is very common and human, you ran into a wall of competing commitments. Your commitment to your own self interest rather than your M. Thus... your disengagement from X1 and ultimately X2.
No matter how much you indicate you loved X2 and how she was your soul mate, you once again reverted to being more committed to your own self interest than your X2.
I do not think you have a problem with commitment. I think you are really, really good at commitment. I think you are showing that in how you are taking on your life, gaining weight, making yourself better, meeting new people, etc. All things that are very self focused. And good for you...
Where's your balance?
It is OK if you will seek self preservation over the interests of others. Again, that's human. When we hit an abyss with the only choice appearing to be helping ourselves while others suffer or helping others while we suffer, many humans choose the former.
My challenge to you, is...
How can you be MORE committed to another over your own self interest?
<You led X1 on to believe that you loved her and were committed to her, yet you concede you were lying to her> Not exactly. I did love her and at the time I did think I was committed to her. Well, maybe not totally. If I was asked if X2 came into the picture before D1 I could see myself either leaving or seriously considering it. Levels of commitment I guess - just being honest.
<you "settled" for X1> I guess you could look at it this way. If so I'm in trouble because I've been around this earth for quite a while and no one has come close to what I have for X2 - so I guess I'm always going to have to settle a little bit if Take 2 of X2 never happens...
<How can you be MORE committed to another over your own self interest?> Well, it depends. What do you see as my self interest in this equation? Is me not being engaged or escaping based on self interest? I guess it could be except for the fact that I feel I didn't know I was escaping. If I didn't know, how could it be seen as not being committed to X2?
<What's the deal with trusting in others?> I'm not sure about this one. Are you saying you see me as doing one or the other? Being committed to myself or being committed to someone else, but never a balance of the two. Yes, I guess so, even though I didn't define it as not being engaged - I knew their were things in M1 and M2 that I wanted but didn't have....uh, almost every time I think you are pulling something out of nowhere I then see it as true...I left M1 - me choosing me over X1. I didn't ask for things I wanted in M2 - me choosing X2 over me. And the G*d damn awful point is that me choosing X2 or me is what caused me to loose X1 - huh! But, it's not that simple, because if I was simply choosing X2 over me that would be bad enough. But I was also escaping form that reality, not letting my self see it, and thus not being able to fix it because I wasn't seeing it. Damn it...I know I have a stake in this and I always want to own my part - but damn it, I did this...
Self interest is not always a conscious thing and the line especially blurs when the primitive mind makes an autonomous decision without first consulting the rest of the brain.
I completely respect that you choose X2 over X1. I accept that you love them differently and when it comes down to it, you would rather be with X2.
Still, I challenge you to make amends with both. You may not ever get back with X2. You may want to ONLY focus on trying to R with X2.
Are you prepared to rebuild your relationship with both X1 and X2?
And by R, you mean only reconcile? and not get back together? I define reconciling as getting back together. If it is R and not getting back together what would be the purpose to R? By that I mean what there be to R for. Would I be apologizing or admitting that I was escaping and not being engaged when I should have been? I have already told her that I wasn't engaged and taken ownership of that with her.
R with X1 - is that really a smart thing to do? Is it even a humane thing to do. From what I hear she is married and a child is on the way - I know it took her a long time to get over what happened - do I want to bring that all to the surface again for her (yes, I know, maybe I don't want to do it because I may not want to bring it to the surface for me. But, no, that's not it. I actually do want to reconnect with X1 and apologize, but that is for my own personal need, not hers. I want to make amends but isn't that for me and not for her?
If I were to do that with X1 I probably would do it, or at least start it via email. From my POV that would give her the option of not replying and that would be a flag to me that she has no interest in doing that - who am I to force her to do that - I already broke her heart...I think she knows I went back to X2 - after a while I just started living my life with X2 as I would with anyone, including Facebook posts, updating my profile to say am I married to X2, all my "friends" would have seen that on their Wall, including X1 - it would have crushed her...
I don't even know what their is to R with for X2. We parted on relatively good terms - no divorce fighting, no lawyers, no yelling, no "I hate you's", none of that. When I left the house for good I told her I loved her. If we see each other in public we casually smile and say hi, or just lightly wave if she drives by me...my heart breaks every time, but I just keep going.
Wow, 4311. That was a really good post. I love the insight into your consideration regarding X1. Truly an A+ on that.
On both X1 and X2, competing commitments. How to resolve or reconcile those?
By leaving them alone, you are rescuing them. By trying to reconnect and reconcile with them, you are self serving...
What to do... what to do...?
So it begins... within you...
You are trapped, aren't you? Your course laid out for you and you are out of control. The only thing you feel you can do is take the bull by the horn, look at the direction you are headed, and start driving that puppy... Get back in control...
In the mean time, knowing full well that it isn't the direction you wanted to choose... knowing full well that it is the direction that you DID choose...
Which leads back to trusting others...
On a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being "not at all" and 10 being "absolutely and completely"... where would you put your trust in others?
