LoisB I think if you want to wear any rings you wear them. I know that sometimes people end up selling their rings because they need the money. One friend sold hers to pay for the divorce lawyer. But I ended up going back to wearing mine. On Valentine's Day this year I put my rings back on my right hand. I will always wear them unless/until I buy my own rings that I like better. I think they are beautiful and I don't associate them with the marriage anymore. They are just beautiful rings I own, and so if I want to wear them, I will. Contrary to what people say, NO MAN has ever looked at my hand and assumed I was married from them.
To be honest I've spent a fair amount of time lately trying to change the conversation about my ex with family and friends. The anger and hate they feel towards him is really almost out of control. My friend posted something on fb and my ex responded to her (they are still connected on fb though they dont' talk). My sister immediately messaged me that seeing his name made her want to vomit and she wanted to just write "Eff you!" I said "really? I just feel sorry for him trying to get her attention. She won't respond."
I refuse to have my family and friends reduce my marriage to the last 5% or less of it. It is as if none of the rest matters or existed, and it DID. I was THERE. He was a good person to me. We were naive and we both made mistakes long before his MLC, and that's not his fault. Despite that, we still had a marriage better than a lot of people's, and we spent an enormous amount of time together and I do believe he really loved me deeply, until he didn't.
The other thing is that they want to be happy for how much I've changed, how independent I am, and all my resiliency and accomplishments since my own breakdown, but they won't admit that NONE of that would have happened if we'd have just stayed married with him hiding the way he felt and me being clueless and dependent. I know me best, and I know that I'd never be the person I am now if he hadn't done the worst possible thing ever to me. It sounds crazy, but it's true. He LIBERATED me.
So while I hate what he did and my heart is broken and I may never even see him ever again (a real possibility) I am not going to reduce him to the guy he changed into, and I'm not going to act like my marriage wasn't a really good one for a very long time. This is really the reason behind the novel I've started writing. I want to set the record straight.
I think if you were married a long time and a majority of that time was good, you have every right to celebrate those years and REMEMBER them, and if the way you remember is to have a picture somewhere or a ring on, then so be it. This idea that we are supposed to be shamed into silence about our pasts is bothersome to me. It forces us into this victim status. If your husband had died, I just don't think people would question you continuing to have photos out or wear jewelry. Well, these people metaphorically died, so we can't just pretend they never existed.
M45 Bomb 6/09; EA 6/10; Divorced 1/11 Proud single mom of 7 little feline girls and one little feline boy "Fall down 53 times. Get up 54." -- Zen saying
Well interesting things to come from MLCer. Perhaps him losing his cell service due to not being able to pay it might help in the long run.
I got the report for D10 that XH will now be getting a "land line" so he can call the girls and talk. However given he had internet I assumed he had to have one anyway. Out of all this time he's only called twice to talk to D10, because she told him " I don't feel like texting. CAll me if you want to talk". He's avoided emotional bonding with this texting crap and kept everyone at a distance. I swear he doesn't know how to talk without some sort of electronic device between him and who ever he's talking to.
He reported to D10 and D13 on the way to school the Triple Package he's getting through the cable company for tv, phone, and internet. As he dropped D13 off from school he said "I will give you my phone number tomorrow."
Then it's just XH and D10 alone just a few blocks away to the grade school. He then tells D10 that OW has gone back to work. It was clear she wasn't working for a while but never any announcment, and really why the heck would the kids care? She doesn't acknowledge them anyway! Then he tells D10 " here's my phone number, I have it."
Ok back the truck up here for a minute. He tells D13 just a few minutes prior that he'd give her the phone number tomorrow. Then he gets D10 alone and dumps on her about OW going back to work and oh ya, here's my phone number????
He can still get texts via wifi through the iphone. He's freezing me out again. I text him earlier this week and let him know I would be home and could take the girls to school unless he wanted to. No response. So fine, he wasn't here by 8 a.m. I took them to school.
Im starting to worry about him dumping so much on D10 or trying so hard to get her under his wing while he shoves D13 out of the nest. I really have no idea how he conversations really go with D10 an Xh. Maybe she just talks it up with him, but according to her he does most of the talking and she just quietly listens.
The girls found out via MIL (grandma) that OW is planning on having her family there Christmas Day. XH still has NOT spoken a word of this to the girls. At this point I figure he was expecting his mother to spread the news. MIL has told me she's bringing the nicer gifts to our house under our tree. OW's family has a history of theft and destruction, and really aren't to be trusted. So she was concerned the girls gifts could be broken or stolen.
Im just praying to get through these waves of irritation and annoyance with him. I swear moving half way across the nation looks better with each passing day!
Kimmerz, It sounds like he thought he had to provide a justification as to why he was getting a landline, i.e., ow went back to work. I'm glad your girls are telling him to call them. They are sick to death of the text messages and having to respond to them. Your girls are very smart...they just may be the ones that will "control" your xh w/o him even knowing it.
It appears that your D10 is his best bud. I'm sure she just listens as he runs off at the mouth. She'll tell him what she thinks when she's had enough.
As for Christmas, I would think he would tell his daughters about the plans, but then again, he knows that they wouldn't be w/him if they knew about her family being there. Your MIL is very wise in bringing the nicer gifts over to your house. Funny, she knows about that family already and has told you a little bit about them. I'm sure she can't even imagine why her son has hooked up s/this twinkle twat, but she doesn't want to lose him, so she's going over there for Christmas.
Hopefully after the holidays, things will settle down.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Just a quick note. As I read the earlier threads, it occurred to me, that what you are describing is "healing" still. I know, I've been there and sometimes still visit I think we all do to some degree.
Being able to acknowledge that a) it happened and b) you had a good marriage at some point, is huge in my opinion. And I suspect it goes both directions - your MLCr may hopefully get to the same point at some time in the future. They'll acknowledge (not to you!) that it was a good marriage for a lot of years. It wasn't wasted time and it wasn't something that didn't happen.
Personally, I remember those times with a smile. I look at the pictures (she left so fast she left those too even though I gave her the option) and smile. It took a long time to get to that point.
I get annoyed still at some of the antics and inconsistencies of her actions, but that's appropriate annoyance vs. off the charts annoyance for weeks. And even then I see it as sad that somebody who once was so articulate and "different" is an alien to me and in many regards to all that knew her.
I decided a long while back that I won't cheapen the time together or otherwise dismiss it. I don't wear the ring, but I have it. I don't display her pictures, but I have them. Those are my memories and I'll keep them. I think we all have to get to that point at some time in our journey. It's part of the healing in my opinion.
K, as for the behavior, let it go. He will do what he does anyway. Don't let it interfere with your life or your Christmas.
Peace, AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
Antonia, those posts were awesome! You have picked up some fantastic insight over the last while and it will serve you well. I have to admit it was a great reminder for me.
Kimmerz, while it is certain that your H is hiding behind texting, I would say that it's not quite certain that he is not emotionally bonding. Remember, EA is often about internalizing what is quite likely a false, or non-external bond.
He probably FEELS (to him) like he's bonding with the kids via texting, when he's likely oblivious that that bond is possibly even less than superficial.
What he's doing is certainly less than ideal, just remember that he sees the world "differently", at least at this moment.
Well....Kaffe....though what you say is true and I agree,
As far as what XH feels...Frankly I no longer give a damn!
I just get crabby cause I hear it from the girls all the time. They don't like how he tries to connect with him. I see they want a litle more affection from him, a little more warmth, a little more compassion. Have Mercy the man used to be like Santa Claus, really a jolly right old elf before deep depression and MLC hit.
But...Snodderly has a point, perhaps my girls have a little more control than he's aware of. All I can do is encourage the girls to communicate with him. They're just insecure about it because they don't have that comfort zone, but he can learn.
Kimmerz, Your girls do have more control over him than any of us give them credit for. The control is called "peer pressure" and since your h is still in Wonderland, that "peer pressure" is going to work in the girls' favor. They are very intelligent and they will figure out a way to get him what they want. They just need a bit of time to figure him out and I do think they are already starting to work their magic, i.e., the landline. LOL!
Your girls are still at the age where they want their father to actually communicate w/them, i.e., talk to them, do things w/them and yes, hug them. Texting is a very impersonal way of communicating and I understand how they feel.
Christmas is a magical season and I'm hoping and praying that everything works out well for you and your girls. The new year is right around the corner and I'm hoping that there are many positives in 2013 for you and your girls.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I definitely understand how you feel, Kimmerz. How he is trying to stay connected with them is, as I said, less than ideal.
With D10, I still have the time together. We both seek each other out, when we are in the same location. D15 actually does the opposite. All I had with D15, was texting. Now, she will not even accept that, from me. She's kept pushing me away, even if maybe she's been wanting me to pursue. All I know is, when I pursued, she kept running. Just like a WAS.
I am very clear that I am not MLC. Have not been, through this whole ordeal. I had been a WAS to some extent, until I realized something was (more than just) wrong, 2.5 years ago.
What I am getting at is, it is sometimes good to understand that, MLC is a different layer. A layer that sometimes sits over a WAS. And sometimes not.
So again, as I say that while how your H is communicating with your girls is less than ideal, underneath it all... underneath the MLC layer... whether he is ALSO WAS or not... he may simply be trying to do the best he can.
And...
It is OK if you are frustrated and done with that behaviour.
I can only hope that your girls continue to not give up on him, as a father and in regards to what ever future relationship with him may be, as best as it can be.
Kaffe, Im sorry but I don't understand the relevance of whether he's a WAS or an MLCer. Actions are Actions. Period.
I don't think he's doing the best he can because I've seen him do better WHEN HE WANTS TO. He's proven he can be a great father and co parent, WHEN HE WANTS TO, and the other times, if there's no crisis, he literally fades into the background.
And yes I do have expectations of him as a parent MLC or not. Granted I know they'll never be met, but yes I do have expectations of him as a parent, because he used to be a very involved father. He made the choice to walk out and become a part time father so he could find himself. He made that choice, and damn near burnt that bridge he had with his girls in the process.
He's avoiding the truth with his girls. The living situation with OW and him leaving is treated like the huge elephant in the room with the girls. The girls want answers from him, but are afraid to ask. He hasn't offered any communication what so ever to them as to why he left, why he moved in with this woman, nor even try to understand why the girls are so uncomfortable around her. She ignores the girls, and doesn't even acknowledge them and acts like a child herself trying to get XH attention when the girls are there. It's just a bad situation all the way around over there and Im damn resentful that he's brought our girls into that!
Because he doesn't acknowledge the girls feelings.... they are feeling more and more distant with him and don't feel like a priority at all with him.
I think we all do to some degree. 
You have picked up some fantastic insight over the last while and it will serve you well. I have to admit it was a great reminder for me.