The house is for sale. So sad, Family is breaking.

[sandi2]

What do you do whenever your W and D get into an argument, or if your D won't cooperate with your W?

I get this little nagging feeling by some statements you've made about your W and the kids. Sometimes, it comes across as if you have this inner "glee" b/c the D prefers you over her mother. That's why I wondered what you do, if anything, when the D is giving your W a hard time.....and if that has been pretty much standard in the past years.

[FloydMan]

Hi Sandi2,
Definitely the opposite of glee…it is sad. I have always, and I mean always had my W’s back when they were insolent with her. I have been told by both therapist a while back and by a counselor to back off now and let her deal with her relationship with them. It took me a while, but I stopped interfering about 3 months ago. And even a few times since expressed that is inappropriate behavior to either parent. I say nothing or leave the area when this happens. This is what I was counselled to do. It is painful. They love their mother, but it is obvious to them who the initiator is. She told the kids about the S/D on her own rather than together as was suggested to us to present a ‘united front’. They see her behaviour. Last night for example is how she would/does treat me. Instead of discussing she turns a cold shoulder and storms off. She is doing this to a 10 year old. She cannot deal with it. They also know she has not been around. She will spoil them with treats and material things to compensate, but that is not what they really want. So, no I would 100% say it is not glee. It is painful.
Hi Sandi2,
Definitely the opposite of glee…it is sad. I have always, and I mean always had my W’s back when they were insolent with her. I have been told by both therapist a while back and by a counselor to back off now and let her deal with her relationship with them. It took me a while, but I stopped interfering about 3 months ago. And even a few times since expressed that is inappropriate behavior to either parent. I say nothing or leave the area when this happens. This is what I was counselled to do. It is painful. They love their mother, but it is obvious to them who the initiator is. She told the kids about the S/D on her own rather than together as was suggested to us to present a ‘united front’. They see her behaviour. Last night for example is how she would/does treat me. Instead of discussing she turns a cold shoulder and storms off. She is doing this to a 10 year old. She cannot deal with it. They also know she has not been around. She will spoil them with treats and material things to compensate, but that is not what they really want. So, no I would 100% say it is not glee. It is painful.

[FloydMan]

Huh, not sure how it doubled up. Maybe subconsciously emphatic about the point?

I would also do ANYTHING for her. She knows that. She does not
want me to. I am supposed to be detaching. It is so hard.

[mamabird]

Detaching is incredibly hard... the only success I'm having in detaching is when I actually feel detached because my H pushes me away so much. It is sad.

[FloydMan]

Exactly for me too. I really want this to change. We have such a beautiful family otherwise. Honestly, we were the envy of so my of our friends as they say. So much potential and so much to offer the community, our children, our extended families who are hitting too and ourselves.

[FloydMan]

Sorry 'hurting too'. Darn BlackBerry spell check.

[sandi2]

Thanks Floyd, for clearing that up, b/c I was interpreting it in a different light, so you are doing what you were instructed.

You mentioned on the 3rd that you were worried about my W. How so? She is in the driver's seat, no?

If you are letting her drive, then I suppose she is. But back to why I was concerned......

she never did do anything to show or prove the A was over. I had to take her word on it. Neither therapist ever pushed her to either. They just said in front of her and I that she wouldn’t do it again and the first one said “if she did “she’d be stupid”. She was never pushed to prove it. She certainly did not offer me the openness you gave your H. My wife was adamant about her privacy and her right to secrecy and not share this information.

This shouts to me that she is still in the A. It may not be physical, but emotionally, she's still tied to OM. I tend to think that is one reason you have seen drastic changes in her moods. I believe her moods are based on what the OM is doing....or not doing, and she is reacting to it. Let me give some examples of what I mean.

When you first confronted her about the A and she thought you were leaving her.......it might have had something to do with timing. In other words, if she thought the A was over and she might find herself out on the street (so to speak) and OM wasn't offering to take her in, then she could have panicked and that's why she begged you not to leave her. It's one thing for OM to carry on with her when he gets something out of it without him having to make any commitments. However, if she told him that Floyd knew about them and she didn't know what on earth to do.......and OM didn't jump in to rescue her and tell her to leave old Floyd and he (OM) would take care of her, that was strike one on OM. Or she may have told OM that they had to end the A. But if OM didn't immediately pursue her, that could have caused her to think she better stick with Floyd.....since one of her fears is to end up alone.


Your W could have been serious about ending the A. At the time, she might have had good, honest intentions. However, shortly after....the addiction kicked in and she craved for whatever OM was doing to make her feel wonderful.

We could use up an hour of guessing what the scenario might have been, but do you see how these things could very easily caused her to bounce around like she did?

When the MC began to focus on your W and wanting to get to the root of her problems.....your W rebelled. She rebelled when the C told her to look at you and say this & that. I know it was rebellion b/c I am the same way with certain things, and when somebody is trying to make me do something like that that I don't intend on doing! I was especially that way when I was in the WAW mode.

Your W thought it would appease you if she joined you in going to the MC, but she didn't want to have anything about herself fixed. As long as the C was zoning in on Floyd, that was fine with your W, but things quickly changed when the MC wanted to put the spotlight on her. That tells me she certainly was not in it for herself. It was suppose to be only you that got your problems straighten out. I doubt she ever dreamed the C would direct anything to your W's past.

But the real clincher is how she is so strongly against being open and demanding her privacy. She pretty much gives herself away, right there. I think at that point she was having contact with OM. B/c if she was sincere about wanting you to stay with her, then she would have been glad to be open with you about everything in order to squash any suspicions. But regardless if she never broke contact....or did break off but later started again, at the point in the counseling session we're speaking about, I believe she could not give it up b/c she was still covering up.

But we'll give her the benefit of doubt and say she broke off the A and was not covering up any contacts with OM. She resents you.....a lot. You come through looking like the good ole boy, while she's the bad guy with her relatives, friends, and her own kids. I realize it was her choices that led to this, but I wonder if the MC didn't help put the R asunder. All of that together & added with how you responded to her not apologizing, etc., helped her throw in the towel. As if she's thinking, "That's right, everyone thinks Floyd is so great, especially Floyd! Since I'm so bad, I'll just get the heck out of Dodge and Floyd & the girls can have each other." It's easy for me to see how the MC could have pushed her too far and too thin. Just based on my own stitch and how I felt, I could have turned back real quick if somebody.....anybody...had required more of me than I was ready to give at that time. She could have thought that she was doing all she was capable of doing for that point & time....just to stay in the M.

I know some people think it's useless to wonder about these different things, but I hope it will give you some insight from the other side and why she's been like she has.

Something is giving her the fuel to pursue the D. It is either her disgust toward you that fuels her anger, or else the OM is filling her head with fantasy ideas. He doesn't really have to promise her anything.....but just the thought that their R could lead to something more....could cause her to want to shut the door on her present situation. To her, it would be a lot easier to work on a brand new R rather than working through the problems of her past and her present MR. That's a big part of the fantasy.

So whatever is adding fuel to her actions, is going to cause her to do what she dreaded the worst. Waking up some morning to discover she's lost everything.

You asked me what turned me back to my H. I believe everything that led me to stay in my M was in the right "timing". If I had read that information too soon, or too late, I doubt it would have had the same outcome, but IDK. I am a person who believes in doing what is right, and of course having an A is far from right. Somehow I stumbled on this board, and there were a few people who really talked to me straight. That was exactly what I needed....and I knew it. They gave me information I had never read about in the past (and I thought I had read a lot). They told me things about the OM that I didn't want to believe, but in my heart I knew some of it had to be true. The OM was very slick with his words....but I had began to notice just enough that raised a red flag even in my foggy mind.

You see, my H didn't do anything that got me to turn around, except he finally back off. The only thing he said that had an impact was that we would not live together on the buddy-buddy system. If I could have stayed in my home (with his continued financial support) and we could just be good friend.....that was great, IMO! But he made sure I did not misunderstand the conditions if I stayed in the M. I didn't like it (of course) b/c I didn't even like him, at that moment. But it did make me really think about my life being without him in it, instead of the stupid fantasy mess that had been swimming around in my head.

[sandi2]

Just to keep it straight, when I'm talking about the C pushing her too far and maybe more being required than your W was ready to give at the time.....apparently, that is how she felt toward hanging onto her "privacy". However, the C should have explained very carefully how the M can't survive without honesty and openness after betrayal has taken place. Perhaps the C tried very hard to do that very thing, yet your W couldn't turn lose of "something".....pride, embarrassment, stubbornness, the OM, the excitement and secrecy, or revealing her sources.....whatever.

Has she ever been the type to withhold information from you? I know some women do keep some things from their H....thinking they are preventing other problems occurring. If she has been the type person who has to have her space & privacy ever since you've known her....then it's more likely she'll think she can continue after she's betrayed her H.

[FloydMan]

Hi Sandi2,
Your thoughts are bang on to what has been going through my mind for months. The OM was a married Sr. Police Detective. That is all I know. I have no idea of his marital status now. I have no idea if they are still in contact, she swears that it ended in March 2011 after 3 months and that he tried to reach out to her for a month after and she ignored him and did not hear from him since. That could be the truth or not….there was so many lies, who knows? Or, it could be someone else now too. She does have so much resentment towards me.
Either way, seems as though I am in a competition I cannot win. It is one that she does not want me to be in either and really, should I? Or, if I should, how do I compete. To just be the best Floyd I know how? The Floyd she fell in love with and says she loved so much for 16 of 19 years together?
You mention doing what is right. I believe in saving families and marriage. But I would need her aboard to see that, right? I think because nobody in our lives other than the MC and OM knows about the A, nobody has challenged her on it. Like the folks that helped you on the board. Have I protected her too much? Therapist#1 thought so. However, neither therapist really made clear that part of the commitment to she would need to make for the M to survive. It was broached at best in our one-on-one sessions. Especially #2 never dealt with it at all. She read the book After the Affair. It was clear in there.
W has been one to have her privacy, especially having controlling parents. I definitely think pride and stubbornness play a part in it. She definitely would not keep me apprised of her spending, or would tell me something costs less than it really did. She did avoid certain things not to cause conflict.
I do want this to work out and to be a family, loving and trusting. Am I fool?

[FloydMan]

Funny how little things keep popping into memory. I did ask her several weeks after the S in May why she did not end it sooner. She said with a bit of a cry and sadness, “Because I still had hope.” ( Does this sound genuine if she still had OM?) She said she was firm in her decision now and she treid. I then said it did not seem like you were trying and doing the right things as the direction we were given. She maintained that she was trying in ‘her way’. So maybe you are right, perhaps she was doing only what she was capable of at the time. MC was terrible. It was all re-hashing and blaming sessions. No-solutions. … at least none that W would listen to. I still don’t know if I should have backed off about the A, or if she really did owe me answers and openness. I think the only way trust could be restored is through openness. Could she really not have cared so much that stubbornness and pride ruined a chance to fix our issues? She also in her begging and crying was “Please don’t let my mistake be the reason for our M ending!”. Indirectly, I suppose it has. This seems so wrong. I don’t know how else to describe it as it seems so wrong.