Trying really hard to be Thankful today...

[Sweetbriar]

UF..thanks for the advice. I am trying to get my girls to communicate better with H, but when they only see him 2 hours a week its hard for them to relay their feelings. I wish I was as easy going as you when you say that you are happy for your X for getting an apartment and moving on...I WANT to not care, but ultimately, I do:(

I got another nice text from H last night...it was random, at a random time. (I was actually surprised to get it on a Friday night when he is usually out and about...) but he asked me to let him know what he can get for the baby for my house.

I didnt respond until this afternoon and just said Ok, thanks! I really dont know what to say, as it seems fishy to me that he has sent 2 nice texts in 2 days?? Trying to keep no expectations when it comes to him thinking of me and baby.

He also got 100% confirmation that he got the part time job (heard this from D14) so maybe he feels like he can splurge a bit and help out. The "at your house" comment was sad...because he no longer feels this is his home at all...

Christmas party tonight with all our old friends...another joyous occasion somewhat dampened by the fact that Im single this year and missing him.

Still praying for him to see the light...

[Sweetbriar]

I felt I need to write here this morning even though nothing new in sitch. I have this huge desire to contact H and I know it will get me nowhere. I have not made any first moves toward contact since Oct and that is big for me! I know in the grand scheme of things this is nothing, but its big for me. Then, after awhile, I get these urges to just let him know I am thinking about him.

How are you ever supposed to speak their LL when you dont see or talk to them? H is very depressed and needs to hear words of affirmation regularly. I want to let him know Im thinking of him but of course, wont do it because I dont want to pursue. This is so hard!! I thought If I came here and heard words of encourgement it might help!

I keep fantasizing that he will come home...or that he will call and want to talk or text and want to talk...but it just doesn't happen. He continues to seek out the kids, which is good, but they wont go with him on weekends at all. I think that is why the tears start from him when they do go with him...becuase he can live in a fantasy world all week and then once a week sees his kids and maybe reality sets in that he doesn't even know they now? I will never know how a WAS can just up and leave and not think the life they led was good. Can he just not see what he has done or does he know and not want to face it?

News of his new job and his desire to move out on his own only solidifies that he is still running away from everything and needs to be on his own. I just cannot help but feel that once he gets his new place that he will be gone forever. He will never move home again:(

I have been dreaming about him and thinking about him way more this past week than I have in a month. Is this normal? Some weeks I dont care what he is doing at all and just go on with my life but this week has thrown me for a loop!

I will not contact him...I will not contact him...I will not contact him....

I spent a lot of time this weekend with my girls...hanging out, movies, making cookies (although they didnt help much with those!) and usually these things feel so great...this weekend I just felt a huge part of me was missing...and I want him back:( I think the texts he sent have put me into this mindset...I just cannot seem to handle even nice texts from him because I want to read into them and believe that he really does think of me and care...

Uggg...Im just so sad today...

[Accuray]

You are doing the right thing by not contacting him. Remember Sweetbriar, he wanted space, he is ashamed of what he has done and fears the emotions that come with you.

In order for it to be safe for him to approach you again, he needs to believe you no longer need him to. Think back to when you were dating, he got along without your affirmation before you met, and I'm sure you didn't immediately lavish him with affirmation, he first had to prove himself worthy to you in some way.

*You are already seeing progress* How many times over the last week have you remarked that H has sent you nice texts? He's not spewing angry, nasty texts anymore, is he? By not jumping all of them and escalating the situation you are training him that it is "safe" to send those to you.

I've used this analogy before, the WAS often sees the LBS like a giant pent-up dam of emotions. They are afraid that if they let any water come over the dam at all, the whole thing will release and carry them away, so they try to stay far away, put up a wall, and don't give you any means of making a real connection.

After a while, if they see the dam is holding, they might *start* to reach out to you to see how it feels. How you respond to these trials is key. If you can take a laid back approach to them and act as if they don't matter that much, you make it safe for them to do it again.

If you now start sending him unsolicited texts and telling him how much you love him and how much you miss him, or that he's wonderful, etc. etc., he's going to see water starting to come over the top of the dam and he will either probably send you another nasty-gram or tell your daughters again that there's no way he's coming home as a means to have you hear it again.

You are doing exactly the right thing, and you are seeing progress because of it.

*However* he needs to complete his journey. There is not a shortcut here even if you DB perfectly. As long as he has OW in his life, he has a support structure that will limit how much introspection he has to do. Remember that his relationship with OW is based on fantasy, and now that it's out in the open and time is marching on, you can probably visualize a lit fuse that eventually is going to explode for one or both of them.

Getting his own place will *not* make his life easier. On the contrary, it will make it harder. Why? When he lives with his parents, there are people around. Even if he doesn't interact with them that much, there is background noise and human energy present. When he lives by himself, it's going to be quiet and lonely. Secondly, the impact of working 2 jobs hasn't hit him yet. When he's paying for his own place, that second income is going to become critical and the pressure is going to mount. He is headed for more pain, not less. Let him live it. The only way out of this for him is through it, and it is not your job to reassure him or to save him.

Do not contact him. When he contacts you, continue to be brief and pleasant in response, just like you have been doing.

Accuray

[Sweetbriar]

Accuray,

Thanks for your response and encouragement! I really needed it today and I appreciate you responding. It helps to have someone give you a clearer picture sometimes. I want to believe all that you say about the possible explosion that him and OW may have one day. Can this explosion happen if he he is "in love with her" and "she is a great friend?" I worry that they have become so emotionally close that he will be sad to ever leave her.

I also was starting to think that this 2nd job will be very time consuming and a neccessity for him to live on his own. Once he gets his own place, he will HAVE to work this job to make ends meet and I worry he wont be able to handle the stress. I guess that is his problem right now. The funny thing is, he used to work side jobs (he is in computers, so easy to find side web site work for good money) and he complained when he left that he worked full time and side jobs while I failed to get a full time job. Now, he will be working WAY more than he ever did when we were together...

I will continue to be brief if he contacts me any more. I must admit that I like hearing from him randomly, makes me know he thinks about me sometimes.

I was talking to a family member about this yesterday and she made the comment (she knows H very well) that she thinks that even IF he ever wanted to come home that he wouldnt know how to even ask. She thinks he is so ashamed of what he has done and how many people know we are apart now that he wouldn't bother...does this happen or do WAS's who really want to reconcile find a way to do it?

Thanks again for your input...it means a lot...

Sweetbriar

[Accuray]

If he wants to come home he will definitely find a way -- you haven't burned any bridges. If he is truly influenced by public opinion then the path of least resistance will be to come home, not stay away. It can happen that the barrier to returning becomes too great but that's really when the spouses have gotten nasty and vindictive. DB is about preventing that.

Affairs are based on fantasy. They are more in love with the idea of the other person they have constructed in their minds than they are with the actual person. Eventually there is enough behavior that contradicts this perfect image that the fantasy breaks down. When you start dating you're willing to put your needs aside and hide your bad habits, but you can't do that forever. If OW was such a good catch she wouldn't be running around with the married husband of a pregnant woman. Her dirty laundry is going to pile up and spill out of the closet, its just a waiting game. If he were totally in love with her would he be getting a second job and sending nice texts to his wife? No, I am sure the shine is starting to wear off for him, but if he is super needy he may cling on for quite a while.

[Accuray]

Please read the story Lis posted on Crimson's thread about her WAH coming back, it will be instructive.

[Sweetbriar]

Thanks Acc again for your input. I did go and read LIS post about her H coming home. I can only pray that will be me one day.

I have thought about what you said about burning bridges and I know that in the beginning when I first found out and before I found this site or the book, I was angry and mean. I also, as recent as Oct, did a drive by her house, which I regret. It was then that I decided to no longer contact him and have not since unless he initiates something about kids or finances.

I do know that affairs are based on fantasy but I have a hard time believing that its fantasy in his head. He really believes that she is really there for him and is helping him through this mess of a M. He is a huge clinger and will cling to anyone who pays attention to him...always has been that way..so as long as she is meeting his emotional needs, I find it hard to think he will break away. Right now, she is everything to him. I agree with you that she cannot be that great of a catch..I have heard things and of course, what you said...she is dating a married man with kids and a pregnant wife! How low will they go?

I did question the texts but not the 2nd job. I think that he needed to get that job regardless of OW because he wants to move out on his own right now. He has never lived alone and I think that he thinks that is what he needs. Just to be on his own. Not having to answer to anyone and being a "2 hour dad" weekly.

I went to IC today and he was discouraging about my M. He said that he hopes he is wrong, but that he believes that my M is over for good. In his 31 years of practicing, he has seen some marriages get back together and the WAS realizes OMG...WTF was I thinking..but he said in most cases its done. He told me not to read into the texts at all and that H probably realizes that baby is coming in 12 weeks and that he better ask if I needed anything. IC does think Im doing better but I left feeling sad. I still want that hope that H could come back:( IC says that 4 months is awhile for him to be gone and that the longer they are gone they usually just keep on moving forward and stay gone.

I really like my IC and usually he is very encouraging about myself and what I am doing, but today, talking about H, IC was very negative. He also said that MLC doesnt happen this young..(H is 36). He does think H has some major issues and childhood issues, but really thinks he is done with M. Maybe he knows something I dont know, as H's counselor is in the same practice???

Anyway, last night walked in to D14s room and found her sobbing. She is having a hard time with the holidays and we talked and ended up laughing in the end! I told her that we will be just fine. The thing that made me the saddest is when she said "mom, he really isn't coming home is he?" Its in these moments that I get the most angry at H...that he chose to not only dispose of me and our marriage, but his beautiful daughters and the relationship he had with them. I will never understand what is going through his head and how he can possibly think that where he is heading is happiness??

I read somewhere on the internet that once the affair reaches the point of a solid friendship and a romantic relationship, that its hard to give it up....and H is there with OW. He has said that we (the girls and I) dont care about him but OW does. That he had to leave because the girls shouldnt hear us fight...well...the only fighting they have ever heard was in the last months when he was with OW. He seems to only remember those months and not the past 15 years of marriage when we were a happy family.

One more thing (sorry..Im all over the place..but Im remembering things IC said this morning) ..IC said that some guys just want better sex, a better woman and freedom and once they get it they never look back.

I left feeling very discouraged:(

[lostinscared]

Sweetbriar…. Sigh. Dear God, your sitch is heartbreaking and I am so sorry for what you are going through.

No one knows how this thing is going to turn out and I never want to give false hope. It’s funny, I think things turned when I actually gave up hope. I know others would say the same thing. With that said, there is no way I could disagree with your therapist more. Being gone 4 months is actually a good thing. It’s the ones who come home right away that tend to be a lot more conflicted about their decision to return. They simply have not had enough time to figure things out on their own. My H tried to return after a year. My friend actually divorced his W only to be reunited and eventually remarried after 2 years. There are just no rules on these things and anyone telling you otherwise is plain wrong.

As far as your H’s attachment to OW. Yep, he may run away with her. That could happen. You could win the lottery. It’s not likely. People in these types of situations start to figure out that they can’t trust one another given the nature of their beginnings. The OW, especially, gets very very cranky when these H’s have contact with their ex’s and their displeasure in that starts to escalate as they get more comfortable with one another. And, the H typically cannot tolerate the increasing level of contentious interactions over it. (I had 2 idiot brothers who had affairs too and they all sing the same tune)

BUT, right now you need to lead your life without him. And I won’t even pretend to know or understand what that is while being pregnant with his child, but that is what needs to be. No matter how hard it is. Because I do believe that detachment is the key. Keep your interactions with him VERY cordial and be the safe haven. But your goals at this point need to be about YOU and your children. That’s it.

Out of curiosity, why does he feel that you and the girls don’t care? Where is he getting that from?

I’m sending a whole bunch of prayers your way.

LIS

[Accuray]

I went to IC today and he was discouraging about my M. He said that he hopes he is wrong, but that he believes that my M is over for good. In his 31 years of practicing, he has seen some marriages get back together and the WAS realizes OMG...WTF was I thinking..but he said in most cases its done.

99% of the time when one person asks for divorce the two parties square off and decide that everything was the other person's fault and display their hurt as anger toward one another. I would agree that in most of those cases there is no coming back. He's making a pretty gross generalization -- what two other people would do doesn't really predict what you and your H will do very well because the circumstances and the specifics are so different.

IC says that 4 months is awhile for him to be gone and that the longer they are gone they usually just keep on moving forward and stay gone.

Agree with LIS -- IC doesn't know what he's talking about. I will say, however, that the only common theme I've seen on this board with the WAS returning is that they only return after you have completely moved on and let go.

IC said that some guys just want better sex, a better woman and freedom and once they get it they never look back.

I hope you kicked him square in the jimmy when he made that remark! Most new relationships are not going to come with "freedom" the way he is talking about it. WRT sex, I think the only truth in this is that if sex is completely unsatisfactory to one partner, and they complain but their spouse disregards the complaint, then it might eventually get so painful for the dissatisfied spouse that they leave and don't look back. Reading your sitch, however, it doesn't seem that you withheld sex or that H complained that the sex was not satisfactory. I further don't think he cited sex as a reason for his departure. I don't think it speaks well of IC that he would say this to you, because all it's going to do is make you feel inadequate or badly about yourself.

I would tell IC that your goal is to reconcile your marriage, and you would like his support to that end. If he doesn't get on the bus, find a new therapist.

Accuray

[adinva]

Was there any more context to the sex freedom woman comment? It's pretty unnecessarily harsh standing on its own.

It sounds like a major theme your IC is trying to get you to work through is to lose the hope, act as if your H is not coming back, and find yourself and your life satisfactory anyway. That is very DB.

The odds aren't good, but no percentages of other people will ever be really relevant to your own situation.

Whether you hope, or not, won't affect whether your H sees the light and comes home to try to repair what you had. All it will do is hurt you. Your IC isn't trying to hurt you but to help you focus on better things for you to focus on than the odds or not that H will come back. That's beyond your control right now.