Stuck between a hard place and the biggest rock.

[25yearsmlc]

Hello,
Now I am completely lost. I recognize I have no clue on what's what.
W responded I could pick my son up from 3 to 5 today. I replied ok and I'd come. (Btw, for the other dates, she is proposing me to pick him up for 2 hour stretches per day. I'll say later this week I want him the WHOLE fricking day, and sleep-overs too!)

well don't say it like that^^^...ask your lawyer what your exact rights are as of now, before you push for more. To HER, this is all new.


When I arrived at "her" place, sure enough my S was ready to go, but no sight of her. Her parents told me she "was sleeping". Fair enough.

Sounds as if she doesn't want to see you in person Bruce. I know that hurts but she sounded resolute in the letter and for now, she's not willing to meet face to face. Let it go. You cannot force her.

Let go of what you cannot control, and your life will be much easier.

I took S to the mall, he was amazed about riding the escalator by himself (for the first time I imagine without being held).

Don't nitpick, "imagine" or negate HER way with your son. Just be happy about what YOUR experience was. This is not a contest. For emphasis, I'll repeat that.

This is NOT a contest.

Then took him home and played with him with a truck, told him a Bible story and because time flies, brought him back. So far, so almost good.

--> Well, what was not my surprise, W did not come to say hi, she was upstairs "studying". I asked her dad if I could speak with her, to which he said he was best to write an email.


Then drop it. Do NOT insist or persist. Just drop it. The more stink you make about it, the more frightening and distasteful it is for ALL concerned.

The more relaxed you appear, the better. When you are a relaxed happy man who just took his son out to play, her refusal to see you will appear more unreasonable.

The bigger deal you make of it, the angrier you get, the easier it is to see YOU as the bad weird guy who pushes people around. "No wonder she won't see him!"

Your anger is not your friend.


I politely insisted saying I needed to see her face to face because I had things to tell her and it would only take two minutes, he said no, I must make arrangements by email.


Time for you to go, politely LEAVE AND STAY CALM...!


To put it mildly, I was "annoyed" at that little man.
Worse, that little man has the nerve to call himself a christian and plays the elder in church.


First, lose the anger and arrogance. Calling him a 'little man" gets you nowhere. And mocking his religious views is very self serving & convenient, and hypocritical.

Do you call yourself a Christian? Did you cherish & honor your wife, put her needs ahead of yours? etc... It goes both ways.

Again, lose the anger. It's your enemy now.



Now, I always felt her parents weren't super nice to me, but still didn't know what they thought. I needn't any more proof, they clearly don't like me, and have probably instructed their daughter on what to do all along.



Two things surprise me here. First, That you'd blame THEM for "instructing" her is ridiculous. She lived with you in France, without them, and you didn't help out at all with a new baby.

(Did you really really read my post to you about what its' like to become a mother the first time?)

She had no family around but you. You effectively abandoned her AND played the victim. You didn't help at all with your son. You bought yourself more toys and retreated b/c YOU FELT "neglected".

It sounded a LOT like you resented your son...in fact I'm sure that's how it looked to her. She was with you and they were not there telling her bad things about you. She saw you first hand. And you two fought and she told you what her views and needs were, and you did NOT go along with any of them. When she was sad, you called it "sulking/bad humor" and you retreated more...God forbid you reach out to her to comfort her...

Her letter to you says that very thing..."too different in our priorities about family time" and "not the same values", it was clear that her departure did not come out of nowhere.

So her parents were NOT a factor in this, in my opinion. It's silly to blame them. that's like blaming her lawyer for what comes next.

SECOND, What also surprises me here is that you don't seem the least bit interested in WHY they don't like you. So either you already know why and don't care, or you don't know but you truly don't care at all.

That's odd. it would drive me nuts if my in laws didn't like me. I'd for sure know why b/c I'd have tried to get them to like me and get them to know me. I'd have spent TIME with them and gotten to know THEM...

I'd have done my VERY best to show them my very best AND that if nothing else, I'd be a good wife to their son...which is why my r with my inlaws was/is good.


This comes as quite a shock because prior to picking S up, I just had sent an email saying that it'd be good to talk about how we could work things out between us. (Remember, I wanted to clarify what she meant, and all..)


That's what YOU told her. But what had SHE said in return? Anything? So your expectations were based only on what you wanted. Those expectations were not met. You were then shocked by that. Bruce, Do you get what I mean here?
Do you see what I'm getting at?

I ended up not seeing W at all, and her dad being very clear about his position.

I decided to not call their home, or write an email today, as I am still very upset about that setback.


Good thinking! Seriously, BACK OFF and WAIT...I'd say that's progress. Take your time when you are angry and post here FIRST,

b/c while we may not know what it takes to GET a spouse back home, most of us know a LOT of ways to push them farther away...


My interpretation is that, seeing that by law she'd have to give S up, her plans are thwarted. And my request to have S potentially could be used to say to the court : "see, I asked for S but she refused". Her attempt to keep it all for herself having failed, she took it badly, and she is playing :"you want to have him, fine! but I won't be nice to you anymore."

Stop the mind reading. IT's ALL negative so it's probably not accurate and it's definitely counter productive. IT serves no purpose to read negatively into things. It fuels your anger AND there are other interpretations I have of her behavior anyhow.

Like she doesn't want to be around you. It's not as if she was around you a lot, before. Sure she may be angry that you want half custody, considering she feels that it's all b/c she filed.

So She may fear losing her temper...OR she may be very uncomfortable that you two are in fact in divorce proceedings, and not many people want to be around someone who wants their son half time.

I think she has a lot of FEAR...fear about losing her son to you, and you taking him to France b/c you hate where you are now and have made it abundantly clear you do not want to live there. How can she imagine that you'd stick around to share him half time, when you think it's a horrible place?

She may also be angry at you, but you don't seem aware of why that might be...OTHER than recently filing, but I think her anger goes deeper and farther back.

I would not blame her father or parents at all for any of this either, btw. They are doing what they can to protect their daughter and grandson.

They don't think much of you, PERHAPS, b/c they have not seen much of you for a year...

and NOW you are making demands to see your son....whom they have been caring for nearly a year now, when your wife is gone or busy.



Tell me if I'm wrong somewhere, but in a sense, she lost the game (I know it's not a game, I'm using an image), and she's trying to get back at me the best she can.

Get back at you, By doing what? By Not seeing you? I think she's protecting herself for now. How did you two talk last week? Was anyone else around?

And I'm not sure about what she has lost yet. I feel like you might be projecting there b/c you feel powerless. And Bruce, we all have felt that way. But you are not powerless. Just focus on what you CAN control, which is you.

What should be my reaction now?

- Tell her that I appreciate the effort she's doing in allowing her to spend time with my son?

No, b/c it's what you should have been doing all along. And you have the right to be with him. Do not blame her for not seeing him sooner, but do not act as if she's doing you a favor either. A 2 hour visit is not a favor. But An overnight, anytime soon, would be.


- Wish her good luck for her exam on Thursday? Not mention anything?

If she initates contact, or in an email, you may mention it as an aside polite thing...but don't initiate it to make small talk.

- Say too bad we didn't have a chance to talk on Sunday, but keep proposing to talk to her?

NO, Say nothing of wanting to speak with her. She already knows that. Saying it again only makes you look pushier than you already did in their house. Complaining about it, is complaining about it even if you think you disguise it by saying "too bad"...

- Tell her we can stop the petitions if we could arrange ourselves decent times with our son?

Maybe this^^^^later...b/c

She may think it's a tactic to get contact w/her, which it probably is. And it's too soon for that. So later on this might work but I'd hold off for now.

- Tell her how the visit went, or keep silent about it?
- Nevermind what she does or doesn't and keep asking for time with him?

Maybe these two...^^^
In an email, you may mention what you two did but make sure you leave out the snide remarks "finally didn't have to be held, going up an escalator"...

((Oh & and btw, a 20 month old ought to be holding hands with someone on an escalator, so I'll assume he held a guardrail?? Since I'm a L, all I read about are problems and I can sound and be paranoid, but most mothers are too..

did you know kids get caught in those things on a yearly basis, and their shoelaces cause problems, and the strings around their hoods too...which strangles them? No lie. Look it up. Most of the fatalities are with toddlers.))

your wife might freak out if you tell her he want up it "by himself" --which I ASSUME means you were with him, but just not holding him...right??

So tell her he was "excited/fascinated" by it, and whatever else you two did. Tell her the story you read to him and how big he is, how fun he is for you and how happy it makes you to spend time with him...and explain that being with him REALLY IS a goal of yours. Have you told her what your father was like and how that's a goal of yours? Does she know and like your dad?

Have you ever apologized for not "getting it" sooner, not realizing sooner how great it is to be with him and how much regret you have for missing out,

and that's another reason you have for needing/wanting more time with him now? That you "get it"...finally??? Better late than never. This would show change without also pursuing an agenda with her.

You catch more flies with honey than vinegar...that's a way of saying by being kind, (but fatherly to your son) you'll have more success than by being angry.


I am so very angry now. A multitude of thoughts are racing up there. I'd better sleep on it, and wait for your un-emotionnal and wise advice.

Thank you so much,
Bruce.

Back off any & all requests for in person talks with her. Seriously....she's been very clear.

By getting legal papers, it will become obvious that the expenses are going to be higher b/c you two don't talk...and you both lose that way. She'll figure that out.

What did you say to your father in law, when he said she didn't want to come? Were you respectful to him, or fuming?

And don't blame them for ANY of this...she's an adult woman and she left you back there, without their help. If she has lied about you, to them, then all you can do to counter their negative images is to give them positive images to replace the bad ones. That's why you need to be pleasant around them.

If they never liked you, there's a reason. If you look inward you may find it. Then you can work on it.

I can tell you that my mother in law had a huge problem with me being Catholic.

But she didn't hate me. And I couldn't change that anyhow, b/c I AM Catholic.

But if there's something you said or did OR that they believe you said or did,

you may need to explain yourself to THEM...how can it hurt?

But post it here first...

Stay calm. Your anger hurts you and makes you seem petulant and arrogant.

Avoid appearing that way. Like I said, (and read it again please)

the calmer and more relaxed you appear to be when you pick your son up or drop him off, the more unreasonable her "no contact" behavior will seem.

The more you fume and pout, the worse you look. I'd be upbeat and happy to see son, hug him and show him affection (if he's ready for it) and be obviously concerned about him.

When they tell you when he ate last or slept, LISTEN to them, even if you think it doesn't matter. It does matter. You will need to change his diaper next time you have him. Period. You can't hand him back to them with a dirty diaper and pretend you didn't notice AND ask for an overnight with him at the same time...

Tell your wife in an email you want to learn how. If she refuses, let her parents teach you. Interacting with them is an opportunity for you to undermine their negative views of you. Just Imagine THEM telling her "Bruce seems to be trying...he learned how to change a diaper and he was genuinely interested...and pleasant...and happy to be with son...why not speak with him for a few minutes..." OR "you should see how he is with son"...

But again, pay attention to what they tell you about his daily routines.

No one likes to have a kid on a schedule only to have someone else mess it up for the main caretaker. And she is the main caretaker.

IT's just good manners and shows adult concern for a child's routine.

When you see the parents, you can ask THEM if your w did well on the exam, or show concern for her, and LISTEN and react appropriately...like you "get" that their daughter is upset with you, which she is.

She has the email in which you asked to speak to her. SHE KNOWS you wanted to. Enough said.

Make sense?