He's Just Not That Into You - The Sequel

[25yearsmlc]

(the last post ^^^ is a little out of order - I wrote it on 12/8 but forgot to hit submit until 12/9)

But, did YOU FEEL HEARD?

25, this is a biggie for me. Maybe the biggest issue in our whole R. The answer, in this conversation is, "a little." More than normal, certainly, but that was not without a lot of effort to get him to stop and hear me. A few times I had to say "Stop and think about what I just said."

Is this new behavior of his? IOW, did he used to listen to you a lot better?

Do you HONESTLY believe (not "hope," but actually believe) that he's going to be a lot better at hearing you ...ever...or anytime soon? I know you hope for that, but do you THINK it's likely?


H is not at the point where he can digest what I'm saying and think that maybe he did do something wrong. He is still justifying all of his actions (like it was ok to say he was going to D me repeatedly because we were 'in an argument').

Does that mean he'll repeat the threat whenever he's in a fight b/c he thinks it's fine OR does it mean that he won't do it anymore but nor will he ever apologize for it in the past?


This is also why I'm frustrated with our MC - MC is only pushing for him to be heard... i've been listening to him for 6 months now.... between the two of them I feel like my opinion doesn't count.

I would tell the mc that you feel exactly THAT^^^^way...at least they'll know why you want to go elsewhere. YOU need to be heard. IF your h insists on continuing there, at least you'll have let the MC on to the fact that you know of the bias...and your h will feel more powerful than you...(IF that's a good thing)

MC's are only people. Half of them project their own pain onto others. I personally experienced that at 2 or 3 different mc's. One MC, a military Chaplain no less, came on to me. Seriously, he hit on me when h wasn't there...frickin' amazing...



Also, when my H says, "I'm just trying to get us to a place where we can have a collaborative D" it honestly makes me think that I'm going to do exactly the opposite.


First, gee, how motivational of him and how inspiring for YOU to have that goal...

Second, I don't know your financial situation and forgot how long you've been married. HOWEVER In a marriage over 10 years in California, I cannot think of a reason for a collaborative divorce for you, UNLESS you are referring only to custody.

The support guidelines are clear and there's not much to WIN for the lower earning spouse, usually the WIFE, in a collaborative divorce...if you make less than he does, and the marriage is a long enough one to get alimony (10 years or over means possible alimony for life, and marriages shorter than that can still get alimony, but not for as long)

then there's no financial advantage to YOU to use a collaborative divorce. Please see a Lawyer for yourself to make sure this is true in your situation.

In my situation, = a long term marriage in which my h makes more than I do, w/3 kids, there are guidelines the courts rarely vary from without good reason which you'd know. And btw, adultery makes NO difference financially, as the reasons for divorce in California only include 2 reasons. No fault "irreconcilable differencees" and "incurable insanity"...

as much as you might want to argue the latter, it won't work.

All I'm saying is that his argument is for HIS BENEFIT or maybe it's a stalling tactic b/c he's not ready to forgive but he thinks he has leverage.

Collaborative divorce is more for people who don't fit neatly into the guidelines or who have a pre nuptial or some other odd arrangement b/c the law on support isn't that complex in this state, unless you have a special needs child, etc.



His idea of "working on things" makes me feel like he doesn't love me enough to try harder. And that makes me not want to cooperate.

understandable. Whether he loves you enough is one thing. What we can more or less "know" is that his anger and pride take priority over all else so far.

And this isn't brand new. It has been months of his wanting to prolong and punish b/c he's not saying he's prolonging to "work on things" and all I see is punitive words from him, and not a lot of loving behavior.

It's possible if he thinks you'll walk for good, for real, that he might actually own something. OR not...but what you are getting now is NOT alright.

It's just not. You know it and we know it. As much as we are here to support your marriage, we are not here to do that, at any cost.


In my opinion there is a chance to turn this around. Not a big one, but a real one. I just happen to believe it's by you doing the following that shows him he could lose you. Sure I could be wrong..but here are my suggestions:

1) GAL big time, with girl friends and openess that suggests you are not doing anything "wrong"...so unlike some GAL activities, yours will have to have less "mystery" but you can still make it clear you will be happy in your life, regardless of his view or choice. Do not let his anger at your happiness ever interfere with you GAL. That's wrong and it's a sick dynamic.

You bring upbeat warmth to life. He can be a part of that, or he can still want to pout and hurt,& inflict that on you, but you cannot accept it anymore.

The words "from this day forward" are in marriage vows for a reason...and if he wants to stay in the past, that's HIS problem. You're in the present and heading into a good future. No more history reviews!

2) but that means YOU LET GO of the past, too. Remember, "from this day forward"... no more score keeping or discussing his past transgressions...

3) assert yourself CALMLY (stay calm at all costs...really). Before you raise your voice or yell, you leave the room. You do NOT lose it or show your anger at him. You leave the area...that's how you get him to change his behavior. Not with reciprocation...if it doesn;t work, at least you didn't escalate.

4) Do not engage....or do it better.
When he points out a negative of yours that is valid you don't have to just hear it over and over b/c hey, it's true...so what? How many of us need to hear a re-cap of our sins, again???

Use the phrase "H, if I had it to do over, there are many things I'd do differently" and leave it at that.

It shows you care and that you get that you need to change, but you don't escalate OR self flagellate as much. You don't dwell on the past.

And if he boldly lies or revises the marital history TOO much, you say

"H, wow, i don't recall it that way at all, but I'm sorry you were hurt."

And then drop it. The only other thing you can say when he throws things in your face like the divorce is

"H, if you won't let go of the past then you're right to say 'let's divorce' b/c that is the only answer. I can't live like this anymore. But you're choosing not to forgive and I hope you'll own that someday..." But AGAIN, you then leave the area. You dont' stand there thinking/hoping he'll "wake up" slap his forehead and get it, and retract. You don't wait...you make your statement and end the fighting.

Some folks think fighting is good b/c it means you are communicating. I think sometimes you're lashing out and that's just damaging.

There are things that get said that cannot be taken back. But once you say your piece, you go. No expectations of revelation in him.

The best you can do in the heat of the moment is plant a seed. That has to be enough for now...


5) set the internal timeline and when it comes, if he's not a lot kinder to you, GET OUT of this situation before your boys are ruined and your self esteem takes anymore hits.

I believe IF there is a chance for him to wake up, which is what he must do,

it has to be b/c he thinks he might lose you.

And believe it or not, a past affair won't convince him of that, b/c he believes it entitles him to MORE security from you which he seems to get by hurting you and seeing if you'll leave...and some of this behavior on his end has nothing to do with you.

Really...a lot of this is about HIM. If he can't admit that, OR if it's easier for him to blame AND LOSE you than it is for him to look inward

then you won't be the first spouse to lose a marriage partner who refuses to do the personal work needed...

Good luck Regret, I wish I could make this easier for you. I know you made mistakes but I can't see what else you could do to compensate for it'

But as I may have told you, here is what I saw growing up.

In our neighborhood we had a family next door. The parents were a married couple in which the h had had an affair years earlier. We all knew b/c the wife wanted us to know...

the h was a former POW and war hero but we were never allowed to ask questions about it. The w would interrupt and change topics. I assumed it was to protect the h.

But it was actually b/c she didn't want the h to be admired. Seriously.
At every social event, she'd make at least one disparaging or snide remark to or about him...

all we knew is that once upon a time he had wronged her, but that at the time WE KNEW THEM, SHE was the problem...not him. We all liked HIM.

So that wife, the betrayed spouse, did not look inward at all. She totally blamed her h for all of it and then she let the kids know what HE had done to HER/THEM...In my opinion,

She made the worst choice possible (and so did the h) b/c she chose to stay married and to stay miserable.

We knew this couple over a decade and the affair was from before we moved in...but That man suffered every day the rest of his life, for a sin he committed that was not all that hard to understand, once you knew the dynamics of the marriage.
And she remained bitter and hurt...the whole time.

30 years later, only one of their FIVE children is still married, 2nd marriage. 2 never married, and the other 2 are at least twice divorced and now single.

That is the legacy she left her kids.

Making the marriage a warm loving one, w/redemption and forgiveness would have been a far greater choice...and an amicable divorce so that each parent could maybe find happiness elsewhere, would have been better than the choice they made.

I often think the wife chose to stay married b/c freeing him w/divorce would have meant "he won"...and she'd have to stop punishing him. She'd have to move on and own her happiness instead of blaming him forever...

Sometimes I think that is what your h is doing.

Just some food for thought.

(((( ))))