Bug, I'm slowly getting to the place where I have to accept that this R might end. My dad keeps reminding me of the progress I've made (which is not insignificant), but what I'm not seeing is any willingness on H's part to accept his part in this or to do any ACTUAL work to right the situation. This is unacceptable. I am not going to be in a marriage where I'm not loved or wanted.
So where does that leave me? I'm certainly not leaving my children and moving out again. I don't have a full time job, although I could get one and support myself just fine, and I suppose that is what I'm going to have to do. I don't want to though, and I think that's part of my hesitation in all of this. Working part time has been great for me and great for the boys.
So yes, there's fear there - a lot of fear. It's not the fear of being alone, it's the fear of the unknown and the sadness I would have to face to get there. Fear of failure too. I just had to deal with this with regards to my job - having to walk away from that bad relationship in a sense. A lot of fear.
I totally agree that I've been focusing way too much on H and not enough on myself. This is probably part of the problem - that I'm willing to put my own needs on hold in order to maintain the status quo.
Right now, H has me in a position where if I express my own needs or wishes, a) they are not valid and b) they are not 'respecting his needs'. Aside from asking for basic respect, he feels I'm not "entitled" to much. Sleeping in my own bed is a great example. If I want to sleep in my own bed, it is not 'respecting his need' to be alone. A rational person would say, "Well, let him sleep in the guest room if he wants to be alone." I didn't push him because I thought it would push him over the edge. Now I'm getting more ready to do that, because I'm caring less if he walks. When I moved back into my house in Sept, I took the bull by the horns and I may have to do it again. Most of you here have been encouraging me to do that. But even if I start sleeping in the bed again, I can't make him love me.
I also know that I have to try something different. I've tried 180s and beginner's mind and cheeseless tunnels. It's worked to this point - we're eating together, riding in the car together, doing family things. But now we're back to where we were when all of this started - we're in an emotionally barren situation where he's shutting me out.
So, MWD would say it's time to go dim. Let me just say how hard it is to do that when living together. Nearly impossible. Plus I'm so emotional about it right now because I'm angry at him for not compromising or taking any of my needs into account.
But still and all, I know I have to focus on myself now. Self-love, self-care. I haven't done that in a very long time and honestly when I think about doing that I feel guilty.
Me54, H53 M 23, T 25 S20, S18 BD: April 2024 Moved out: August 2024
Love means not giving up on someone even if they've given up on you.
"Being right is the booby prize of life." - Susan Page
Reading that over again, I can see the punishment aspect clearly. Think about a prison sentence. The person gets a lot of their rights taken away as a punishment. The right to freedom, specifically. He can't take that from me, but he responds to any of my needs requests by threatening or withholding. If I can continue to see that for what it is and look the fear in the face, I may be able to get out of this alive.
Me54, H53 M 23, T 25 S20, S18 BD: April 2024 Moved out: August 2024
Love means not giving up on someone even if they've given up on you.
"Being right is the booby prize of life." - Susan Page
I like the idea of you taking the bull by the horns and moving back into your bed. You can't make him love you and you can't change him but you can decide to take the focus off him. That could end up making a difference to how he responds. That would be a by-product and not the point. Since he's not expressing any positives now you might as well try something else.
Are you still giving him back rubs? You haven't mentioned POW in a while. I think there is positive movement in your sitch but I think your (understandable) impatience might be slowing things down
What was your H like at his best? I believe that my H can be a better match for me than he is at the moment because he used to be.
Hang in there, Regretful. It isn't really that long since you moved back in.
Me: 51 H: 52 T: 23 yrs M: 19 yrs S18, D16, S14 (special needs) PA: 2003/2004 Piecing: 2004 on Suspect H had EA: 8/2012-12/2012
So how is your measuring on what is working vs not working going?
How long are you in this aspect of the plan now ? I think you said you would give it three months.
And yes your thoughts of a pure focus on H is not healthy. As you can see the fall-out within your mind that is occurring.
You know you can keep working on the civil and communication. And just let him be. If he wants to shut the door. Then that's that. Carry on. He has the choice to open it or not. Our Relation talks get old after awhile. So let the ebb and flow of these talks take on the ebb aspect. Take a break.
I think you are feeling guilty about the self because you have always failed your marriage and commitments when you go down that path.
Flowers always make people better, happier, and more helpful; they are sunshine, food and medicine for the soul. unconditional love is awesome!
Reading that over again, I can see the punishment aspect clearly. Think about a prison sentence. The person gets a lot of their rights taken away as a punishment. The right to freedom, specifically. He can't take that from me, but he responds to any of my needs requests by threatening or withholding. If I can continue to see that for what it is and look the fear in the face, I may be able to get out of this alive.
Bravo...step one ((()))) You do not deserve this. How long are you willing to be punished? I feel this behaviour and I know exactly what he is doing. I would do it too, except now that I DB I am slowly changing that behaviour.
You are allowing him to continue. Stop. One of two things will happen, he will say that R is not for him or he will realize you are not going to play this role anymore.
You are allowed t o be happy, you just won't let yourself. It is time to forgive yourself, okay?
I have only been in two R's myself and I will be fine ...so will you
So how is your measuring on what is working vs not working going?
Not that well. I'm too emotionally invested and I'm down because it seems like nothing is working.
Quote:
How long are you in this aspect of the plan now ? I think you said you would give it three months.
Denver said "Love him for 3 months". I think I got to 2 months of that strategy.
Quote:
So let the ebb and flow of these talks take on the ebb aspect. Take a break.
Not a bad idea except I'm paying to see a therapist and I feel like the money's being wasted if no one is doing anything after these sessions. Not for lack of trying on my part. Maybe I'm trying too hard. Now I don't want to try at all.
Quote:
I think you are feeling guilty about the self because you have always failed your marriage and commitments when you go down that path
Actually, that's not true. I was married for 8 years before OM1 came along. I did just fine with living my own life within the M. I feel guilty now because the family is so fragile and I feel like I have to spend a lot of time with the kids.
Wendylon -
Quote:
Are you still giving him back rubs? You haven't mentioned POW in a while. I think there is positive movement in your sitch but I think your (understandable) impatience might be slowing things down
. No more back rubs for the time being. I don't want to and he doesn't seem to want it either. Haven't mentioned POW because she hasn't come up, and I'm not snooping because I don't want to make things worse for myself. This is a case where ignorance is definitely bliss. I do not want to know.
My impatience probably is slowing things down. Certainly it's pursuing as you said, and H has made it clear that he needs his own "space." I think if he wants space, he should get an apartment. I am feeling more ready to give him all the space he wants - permanently.
Quote:
What was your H like at his best?
Great question. He can be a very loving, generous man. Smart and funny, engaged in what's going on in the world. Great dad. Fun to be around. Definitely brought out the more spontaneous side of me and has encouraged me to lighten up about stuff. He was pretty much there for me emotionally when I was going through all that cancer stuff (almost 7 years ago now).
I'd say it's possible for us to get back to that point, but it would involve a lot of work on HIS part. He is too depressed now and is not that person anymore. I'm not saying it wouldn't take work on my part too, it would, but he's not willing to do the work at this point, so that's a problem.
Rubytuesday-
Quote:
You are allowing him to continue. Stop. One of two things will happen, he will say that R is not for him or he will realize you are not going to play this role anymore.
You are allowed to be happy, you just won't let yourself. It is time to forgive yourself, okay?
Thank you. I know it's time to push back. My IC has been encouraging me but I haven't been ready. Now I'm feeling ready to gently push back, because I finally know that if he responds by walking out, I'll be ok with it. Sick of being a doormat.
Finally, Mach 1 -
Quote:
What do you want your epitaph to say ?
Another great question. Tough one too.
1. Genuine 2. Thoughtful 3. Warm 4. Cares about others 5. Good friend 6. Great mother 7. Inspiring 8. Can count on her 9. A good listener 10. Fun to be with
(some of these aren't exactly epitaph material, but you get it. This is who I want to be.)
I got a call scheduled with a coach - Tuesday is when we talk. I hope it will help. I also got a few books from the library today - one on empathy, one on happiness, one was The Dance of Connection and I forget the 4th. Plenty to work on.
Me54, H53 M 23, T 25 S20, S18 BD: April 2024 Moved out: August 2024
Love means not giving up on someone even if they've given up on you.
"Being right is the booby prize of life." - Susan Page
I feel that H isn't modeling good behavior for my sons. He is so disrespectful towards me, and I'm afraid they are going to think that's ok.
I had a long talk with each of them and then with H too... of course that discussion unraveled into yet another R talk. But finally, we got to a point where we actually finished the conversation. We talked until there was nothing left to say.
I struggle so much to be heard in this M. At points in the convo I had to say, "You need to hear me." "Just stop and think about what I just said." He still isn't taking any responsibility for what happened, but that's ok for the moment. I did ask him to say "I hear you and I accept it" when I said I accepted my share of the blame, whatever my share is.
His thesis statement tonight was that I don't understand the impact of my actions. That I have behaved sh!tty time after time and never really understood how it affected him. That he did a bunch of nice things for me and was "cool" after my first EA (which I suppose he was) and I didn't appreciate that. That he made most of the money, went to parenting classes and really tried (true).
He would sling accusations here and there and I made him stop so we could go into them as he said it.
So, I did a 180 and just listened to him say all of that instead of arguing. And at the end, I mirrored it back to him and tried to reflect the feelings. I think he felt heard at the end of it and that's when the conversation ended.
H suggested that I focus on my actions and how they impact other people.
I was just happy that we could finally finish a conversation.
I told him I was struggling with detachment. I wouldn't have brought that up but basically our MC told me to detach - not his words but that's what he meant. I told H I had heard the MC and agreed it was the right strategy but that I had a lot of fear and that it was very difficult to do.
Me54, H53 M 23, T 25 S20, S18 BD: April 2024 Moved out: August 2024
Love means not giving up on someone even if they've given up on you.
"Being right is the booby prize of life." - Susan Page
Nice to mirror back.. Notice your H is still saying you are not repentant enough? I am glad you are ready to stand your ground, but that does not mean arguing or the cold shoulder. It just means that you are ready to advocate for you. I agree about the role model business as well. I often wonder if kids will think its okay to leave your family ( although I am certain they don't think this way, I do! Lol)
I know of have a lot of fear and in a way it is like starting this path all over again. We are here to walk with you.
