Hello! 20 year marriage teetering... (part II)

[Mach1]

There are two sides to every story. Yours and theirs, and usually, somewhere in the middle is where the real truth lies...

All W has ever told anyone (that I know of) is that she's not happy and she's not sure why and that she's confused. And that's all I've conveyed to anyone about W. I have consistently stood up for her and told family and friends that she is a great person (and I truly do believe that) and a wonderful mother and that regardless of what happens I will still believe that. I'm thankful that W hasn't gone monster like so many of the stories I've read on the MLC forum because it would be particularly difficult to hear her say horrible things about me, but she really hasn't. She's been quite supportive in fact.

I think you missed my point. I'm referring to, that all we read , is your side.....

What were your wife's complaints about you ????

My W's complaints and my 180's are well-documented throughout my 2 threads. I'm not going to rehash that because W has stated several times that I've changed, that I've reversed every complaint she had and that I am not the problem. She repeated this just a week ago. The problem according to her as I've stated over and over again in both threads is that she doesn't "want to try". I don't come here to lie, if you knew me you'd know I'm a straight-up honest guy. I have no secrets, no ulterior motives. I'm not going to sit here and tell you my W said these things because I want to pump up my ego or whatever. I tell you these things because it highlights the confused mindset of the WAS. The problems are "fixed" but she doesn't want to "try" at the R. At least, not right now. That's the bottom line.

Well, I'm sorry to ask you to paraphrase a bit for me. You have sprinkled in some of her complaints. Mostly it was because you were absent, complained a lot, and were angry/yelled quite often.

????

It seems as if you have planned this whole thing out on how it should work, and end.

No plan, I've felt from the beginning like I'm just along for the ride.

I think that you aren't just along for the ride...and that you want to be the driver...

I see a superiority in your words when you type about her, and how your choices are waaaaay better than hers.

I'm really perplexed by this, not sure what you might be referring to.

Let me remind you of some of your own words here....

Took over all household chores from W- I do all the laundry, the dishes, the housekeeping and grocery shopping (W goes with me on the shopping trips). I’ve kept the house cleaner than she ever did and I get the laundry done in one day whereas she was never done, she did it constantly all week long.

is it seems like she's been quite happy for as long as I can remember. No crying, no wierd moments of sitting in the corner pouting, nothing. When I saw she was "doing the laundry", sometimes I wouldn't see my clothes for weeks, LOL! It took her forever! Since I started doing it the whole thing gets done every Friday. She's throw a load in and take off to get her nails done with the girls and it would sit there for hours before going on the dryer. So I hope you're not getting the impression that she was slaving over a hot stove or iron all day while I was partying Speaking of ironing, she's never touched that, I do it all (it's mostly my clothes anyway).

I think this is the problem exactly. My wife has NEVER been good at communicating, even back when we were dating. I have to draw information out of her a piece at a time. If we get in the car and I don't say anything we travel in near silence, so I usually talk just to break up the silence. Her responses are usually pretty brief. It's always been this way. I have no doubt whatever resentment she is harboring is locked up in some vault in her and it's now boiling over, but still she won't talk about it, not to me and not to the counselor.

I moved the bigger stuff into the garage so she wouldn't have to drag it through the house, and when I was done I looked around and thought "wow, the house looks so much cleaner and uncluttered now", LOL! I took down all pictures of her (there weren't that many anyway) and I'm getting really comfortable with the idea of her being gone. I'm enjoying the heck out of doing stuff with just me and the kids.

I don't think DB'ing is about tricks at all. If done properly, you transform yourself. I have done that, and I am better for it. I would LOVE to see my W go through a similar transformation. There are many 180's that she needs to do, but she has no incentive to do them because she doesn't think there's anything wrong with herself. Yes I would be able to recognize her DB'ing, but knowing what I know about DB'ing and how much work it is, she would gain my respect, admiration and love for putting forth that kind of effort to try and earn me back.

You are standing on a soapbox, saying everything that you are doing correctly now....after 20? years of poor behavior and choices...

So the last four months is supposed to make up for that?

...interesting...

W told me that it was actually D16 that was initiating the conversations with her. D16 woke her up at 4 am telling her she wanted to talk about it because she couldn’t sleep. That’s when she asked her the questions about why she didn’t love my anymore. W admitted she was half asleep and didn't really remember much of the convo. So brace yourselves, because I dropped the D bomb on my W. I told her that I told D16 we would sit down after the first of the year and work out the D, and I also told her how I had explained to D16 that the M was over and there was no hope of reconciliation. W said “you told her that tonight?” I said “yes”. Then I told her “This is very hard on the kids, anyone who tells you that kids will be fine in something like this doesn’t know what they’re talking about. I went through it and you know I’ve always said it was the worst thing that ever happened to me in my life right up until this. It will affect them deeply, and affect them for life. But what is important is that you are happy, and that we continue to support the kids as best we can and help them through this. You are happy, right?”

Dropped the bomb ?

Really?

Because your choice is different than what hers is right now ?

So in a way dropping the rope is a win-win, because if we well and truly do drop the rope then if the WAS returns we're in a better position to negotiate reconciliation terms (since our heart isn't invested anymore), and if they don't return then we're moving on anyway. That said, I am giving it more time because my W requested that, but I'm not going to just hang myself out there forever.

You make it sound as if you are done with your own work, and you are just waiting for her to see how great you have become...

Like I said above....four months will not erase the past 20 years...

And that she should be begging you, to come back.

Why do you think that, because I've stated that I don't want to just throw the door open to her? I certainly don't expect her to beg to come back, but if she ever does consider reconciling I'm not just going to lay out the red carpet either. A lot of work needs to be done to rebuild the R first.

No, just a figure of speech around here. It ties into what I said above about the last four months...

Sorry if I was unclear...

I see a pattern of trying to fix HER problems, with YOUR solutions. And that makes her opinions pretty small, if that is the case.

Go back to be beginning and you'll see I've always taken her comments VERY seriously. I worked like a maniac to reverse every complaint she had. The only "solution" I've tried to apply is to change myself and to give her time and space.

This...

Indeed, I actually started out posting on an MLC forum when this first started. She does match some of the characteristics of MLC- she has expressed a desire to artistically express herself in some way and get out of the "rut" she's in. I actually took her to an art class (where you paint a painting in 3 hours) a couple of weeks ago and she went to a photography class last weekend, I invited her to a pottery throwing class but she thought it would be too "messy". Still, she's not even considering staying.

I'm not sure what you meant by this post...

Did she ask to do those things ?

And...

I think I've mentioned upthread that she's terrible at communicating which I think is another big issue. I've discussed this with her many times in the past, I have to really work to draw any info out of her, especially when it comes to her thoughts and feelings. I'm certainly not saying I have no faults in our M, I do. And I've worked hard to change them. But I think her inability to communicate has a lot to do with her unhappiness. She simply cannot voice any issues great or small that make her unhappy, so there's no chance of changing them. She told me things at BD that she has never even mentioned in passing before, and I told her my one great regret in this is she never gave me a chance to change these things.

Yet, that is only part of what I meant by this.

You are the one here, and you are the one who is starting to DB


You are starting to see how internal reflection can play a part in the revitalization of ones self. And there is a part of you,(and most of us that have posted here, present and in the past) that haven't thought that if only our spouses would read the book, or see things the way I do, then we could all just be happy....

But then again, your wife DID read the book.....right?

Where is the sympathy for what SHE might be going through ?

I posted this yesterday in eyesopen's thread:

"I knew anger was one of the phases of grief, so I expected to be angry at some point. But it never did happen. I never did feel anger towards my W, maybe because I knew she was hurting and suffering too. I think it's easy for the LBS to assume that everything is great for the WAS, but that's rarely the case. They're in great pain too."

Yesterday....

What about the past 20+ years ?

I know that you cannot change the past, and I don't expect you too....

Where was that sympathy when you had decided that YOU had had enough, after a couple months?

From the picture you have painted ( being absent, and controlling) , your wife carried this marriage on her back for 20 years, and within the matter of months, you have had enough, and are ONLY waiting around because she asked....

I would think that she deserved way more than that from you....

What happened to love , honor, and cherish ?

Was that only when things are all puppy dogs and rainbows ?

Or is it meant for better AND worse, and digging in through the worse, to see what you are made of inside.?

What do your vows mean to you ?






Look AS....

I don't want to stay here and bash you, and I'm fairly certain that you don't want me to.

I had a few questions that I wanted you to think about. And the answers weren't for me anyway, they were for you.

And obviously, I hit a nerve. You are more than welcome to dismiss anything that I say, although I have found, at least for me, that the hard questions, and the ones that sting the most, are the ones worth answering.

So....


Where were we ???