Do I Have a Chance?

[complicated]

So H got home from trip which we did not talk about. I had text him that there was some trouble with D15 just doing what she wants without permission. He stopped by to discuss what he was going to text her. I told her that might send her over the top because she was already mad at him, but he did it anyway.

I did not get up when he walked in and no attempt to hug or kiss him and he didn't either. I could tell when he was leaving that he was waiting to see if I was going to do something. He said, "well I guess I'm going to go". I said Ok see you! He paused a little and I just kept going about my business.

I then tried calling him because I forgot to ask him if he was going to put up lights for the girls and if he was going to take D15s friend to the airport. No answer so I text and no response. I'm not trying again.

I really got the impression he was looking to me for some affection. I feel like I need to be nice but not push anything even though I know he is thinking about wanting to move back. If he says anything to me I am going to say that I am trying to give him space which is what I have been saying all along.

[complicated]

Tried texting and finally called H last night at 1am. D15 was not home and did not answer my texts or phone calls. H knew things I didn't, like D15 going to concerts and stuff, so he did pick up when I called and of course I woke him. Told him what was going on and he attempted to try and help.

Long story short, I found on twitter that she was 4.5 hours away at a concert with some older girls. One being the girl I had to pick up from the airport. So I ended up picking her up from some girls house and not saying a word to her. I need to keep my cool. I told her we would talk in the morning. I was hurt to see that H did not come over to see if everything is ok and he didn't call or text to check.

This morning I did a big slide and said that i was sorry I bothered him and that I got angry. I said I felt like it was pretty major involving the kids and he would want to know. i said I see now that it was a big mistake and I should not bother him. He text back saying it was OK and he was wrong and i was right and he was sorry. I had been trying for months or a year to try and reign D15 in. Everytime I set limits, he went against me. I told him being right or wrong didn't matter that it is about the kids being safe. I said that is all I ever cared about - not being right or wrong. He said that I have trouble admitting I'm wrong. I admitted this and said that I am continually working on myself and that is one of the things. I told him that I like the person that I have become.

I also told him that she is angry with him for going on the trip with the other woman but she would forgive him as soon as she wanted something from him. She runs to him when I won't give her what she wants.

He said he was not going to give in to her anymore. Yeah right. I will believe that when I see it. That is one of our issues. He won't support me when i lay down the law and he will go behind my back and give the kids something. I once took D15s phone away and he gave it back without my knowing.

I ended up talking to him on the phone. We argued. This is really where I fell off the wagon. I told him that I felt like he didn't want to deal with a family and it was a lot easier to give in to the kids than parent them. He said he could move back. I told him that is not the answer. I told him I didn't want him back unless he was willing to work on the marriage. We also talked about his trip with OW which he continues to say they are just friends. I told him what did he think everyone else thought? What did the kids think?

He said again he needed a break but that he really didn't get that. I said I guess that is my fault. (because he blames everything on me) He said no it's not your fault! Big surprise there! Once again he talked about living at his parents, blah, blah, blah and how I wouldn't move out. Once again I said "I'm not the one who wanted this, i don't know why you think I should be the one to move out".

Is anyone else getting this from their S? They don't like living out of the house but blame it on the LBS that they won't leave? What do I say?

So, I am thinking that he only wanted to move back because he is tired of living with parents. I did make it clear to him that I was doing fine, I would handle D15 (the others are away at college) and I was moving on with my life. I told him that it hurt that I didn't feel like he "cared" about D15. I said again that I realize my mistakes and i'm working on myself but that he needed to realize his part. He acknowledged he has played a part which is the first time he has acknowledged it.

He did say he would put up outside lights for the kids. Curious to see how he continues. I admit another big step back for me. I'm still having trouble not telling him what I think.

We go back to mc Thursday to "see where we are". I have already told her I thought we were in the same place we were a year ago or worse. Also asked her if she was Pro-marriage because I was having trouble seeing it. Told her we never set goals or seemed to get anywhere. We'll see.

[complicated]

Also told H that we had some paperwork to go over but didn't go into it further. Also told him we needed to discuss taxes (so we can work it so we don't have a penalty) but that I am done asking and if we owe a penalty I tried.

He is doing whatever he can not to discuss important matters. I'm done trying to get him to.

Also told him we needed to discuss the kids and Christmas which includes their gifts. I'm sure I'll be scrambling on that one.

[complicated]

H stopped by last night. I was not in the best mood because of the D15 ordeal the previous night and she left stuff all over the house for me to pick up. Then one of the dogs peed on the newly finished floor which made me really mad because he has been outside a lot. H was not there long then said he was leaving because he could tell I was in a bad mood.

I told him not because of him but because of what I just said. Anyway I said why are you here? He said I came by to see you. No one else is here so why else would I be here? I said then you need to tell me that because I still can't read minds. That might sound ignorent but he always thinks that "I should know". So I told him that was nice that he came by to see me and if he wanted to talk I would not take the prior situations out on him. We did talk a little bit about D15 and he admitted that he was part of the problem there which is huge.

He also had told me a couple of times on previous occasions that he was thinking about moving back home. So, I asked him why? He said he had been doing a lot of thinking and he wasn't any happier living at his parents and both his friends and the kids think he should give it another shot. Which is great that I seem to have a support network out there but I want "him" to want to be back. He also said that he had enjoyed the time we had spent together lately and he thinks he should give us a second chance.

Since we were not having the whole R talk while he was sitting in his car the only thing I said right then was I don't want you moving back home if you are tired of living at your parents because that is not a good reason and that I was still "hurt" about him taking that OW on the trip with him but it is what it is and can't change it. I also told him that he did not think of how the kids would feel, or me, when he did it. He admitted it didn't probably look good but he really needed a break from work, life etc and she was the only one who could go. He again said it was nothing that they didn't even hang out. She did her thing and he did his.

I can be soooo gullible I know and it makes it worse because I know the old H would never do something like that. I did tell him that a friendship like that is not good for a M but did not go into no contact yet but I will if he does decide to move back.

We also talked about the stuff I needed to talk to him about like taxes and a little about D15. He knows that is going to be a battle with her. Nothing else said on moving back or R. I guess that will come sometime and I did not push for further talk. We did have a nice evening together. Then he left. It will be interesting to see how the rest of the week goes. We were supposed to go out of town with D15 this weekend, but were staying separately so it will be interesting to see where that goes.

Not sure if I'm doing the right thing as far as DB goes. We have had issues for about 3 years or more and he has been living away for about 8 months although we saw pretty much of each other. He has noticed changes and of course I told him that I am working on myself and I like where I am. I also told him that it took me a while to get to a good place and I didn't want him coming back if he wasn't going to work on things. I told him I didn't "need" him and didn't want to go through the hurt if he was moving home because he was tired of living with parents and not work on "us" I said it would be nice to have him back if it was for the right reasons. He also admitted again that he had some blame and I admitted I did too and that I was wrong for some of the things I had done.

I also told him that if he could move past the things he was holding grudges on that he would probably feel better.

So "when" the move is going to happen has never been set and I'm not going to bring it up. Just happy that he is thinking about it. I'm sure the kid's reaction to going with OW helped.

[AnotherStander]

He said he could move back. I told him that is not the answer. I told him I didn't want him back unless he was willing to work on the marriage. We also talked about his trip with OW which he continues to say they are just friends. I told him what did he think everyone else thought? What did the kids think?

Well done! I hope this was a civil conversation and not a shouting match, but as far as your replies, that's what he needs to hear.

He said again he needed a break but that he really didn't get that. I said I guess that is my fault.

Try not to guilt-trip him though.

Is anyone else getting this from their S? They don't like living out of the house but blame it on the LBS that they won't leave? What do I say?

Not in my sitch, but I've definitely read this a lot on these forums. Just tell him you're standing your ground because you want to work on the M and he's welcome to join you if that is his goal as well. HE is the one that wants to break up the M so HE is the one that needs to suffer the discomfort of being displaced.

I did make it clear to him that I was doing fine, I would handle D15 (the others are away at college) and I was moving on with my life.

Great, that's good DB'ing!

He also had told me a couple of times on previous occasions that he was thinking about moving back home. So, I asked him why? He said he had been doing a lot of thinking and he wasn't any happier living at his parents and both his friends and the kids think he should give it another shot. Which is great that I seem to have a support network out there but I want "him" to want to be back. He also said that he had enjoyed the time we had spent together lately and he thinks he should give us a second chance.

Fantastic, that's a really good sign! He's coming to the realization that you were not the cause of his unhappiness. That's a big turning point for a WAS. And he's enjoying spending time with you, another big plus. Your reaction was just right- you don't want to rush back into things and you need to know that he's in it to make the M work, not just for convenience.

Not sure if I'm doing the right thing as far as DB goes.

It sounds like you are doing great. You might start reading some of the info in the "piecing" forum as you may be transitioning to that stage soon.

[Am I Too Late]

You are doing a pretty good job of DBing.

Especially considering how much time has elapsed from the beginning to now.

I just wanted to let you know you have another booster on your side.

My sitch had started over 3 years ago as well.

Ed

[kat727]

Anything new? How are you doing?

kat

[complicated]

Been a little strange. Ever since the big vacation D15 won't talk to H. She has also been defiant. I have been trying to talk to her but she is angry that H doesn't try talking to her eventhough she told him not to. I told H this and he said "she told me she didn't want to speak to me". I told him that she is very angry with you but you have to make an effort to talk to her and keep trying.

When we have been discussing D15 sometimes other things come up and he will say things like "I tried to tell you things and you wouldn't listen" or "no one cared how I felt".

These comments are making me think he is not ready to come home. So since we're both at work today I sent him an email stating that I have noticed that he keeps bringing that stuff up and if he is not ready to put that in the past, maybe he's not ready to move home. I told him again that I am in a good place and I have moved past that. I told him I do not bring up what he has done in the past nor am I going to and that "to forgive is a gift that you give yourself".

I also told him that I was working on D15 because she has many issues right now and I have also told her she needed to talk to her Dad and let him know what is bothering her. She doesn't want to but I know if he approaches her she will tell him "some" of what he is doing to make her mad.

So that is where we are. While it originally sounded good I am approaching it very cautiously because I am not sure he is ready. I have not heard back from him. I think if nothing else he realizes that I am not going to put up with his attacks. I also told him again that because he is tired of living with his parents is still not a good reason to move back. Only problem is he makes a lot more money than I do and we still pool our money like we always have. I guess he could move back since he is still paying the bills. If that happens I guess I need to know if I still proceed with the GAL and 180's and moving on, or do I show him the love and affection as if we were getting back together?

Not sure on that one. Any comments out there?

[AnotherStander]

Ever since the big vacation D15 won't talk to H. She has also been defiant. I have been trying to talk to her but she is angry that H doesn't try talking to her even though she told him not to.

She is 15, my D just turned 16 so I'm very familiar with the dynamics of a D15. SHE DOES NOT MEAN WHAT SHE SAYS. When she tells H not to talk to her, she wants the exact opposite. She's just lashing out in anger and frustration over the sitch. The LAST thing he should do is honor that and not talk to her! Every child counselor in the world will tell you that teens complain non-stop about their parents' "smothering" behavior but they really do cherish knowing that they are loved and considered important. Teens are a classic case of the DB 180 rule that says don't believe anything they say and only half of what they do. In a lot of ways being a teen is like MLC, it is a transitionary period in which hormones are affecting their thinking, decision-making and emotions. SHE WANTS AND NEEDS TO FEEL LOVED!

I told H this and he said "she told me she didn't want to speak to me". I told him that she is very angry with you but you have to make an effort to talk to her and keep trying.

Yup!

When we have been discussing D15 sometimes other things come up and he will say things like "I tried to tell you things and you wouldn't listen" or "no one cared how I felt".

Tell him "I'm sorry about that, but I'm listening now and I care a lot about how you feel" and then if he opens up then be the best listener in the world. Make eye contact, nod, lean forward, repeat main thoughts back to him, validate his emotions.

So since we're both at work today I sent him an email stating that I have noticed that he keeps bringing that stuff up and if he is not ready to put that in the past, maybe he's not ready to move home.

Why in the world did you do this in an email???? Call him!! Or better yet, wait until you see him! This is the kind of conversation that requires two-way communication and could get emotional, and it's important to validate his emotions. You can't do that in email.

I guess he could move back since he is still paying the bills. If that happens I guess I need to know if I still proceed with the GAL and 180's and moving on, or do I show him the love and affection as if we were getting back together?

Negotiate the terms of him moving back. Consider going on some dates and getting some MC first. He will be more open to it as conditions of moving back rather than after-the-fact requests.

[brokenheart71]

I am fairly new here and by no meas and expert so take my advice with a grain of salt! I would think that there are a lot of other steps you could take to work on your relationship (and his R with kids) before he moves back in. Like going to counseling, spending time as family, doing activities, spending time as a couple (without kids) just generally getting to know one another again. I would not want to rush him coming back, I'd rather wait and be sure you are all "doing it right". Especially with the holidays coming up - that can be a stressful time for many people/families. Maybe it would be better for him not to move back yet but spend a lot of time with you and the kids (assuming the older ones are coming home) - take part in your holiday traditions and maybe even come up with some new ones.

Good luck!