heeeeelllllppp!!

[AnotherStander]

I feel like there is about 10 people telling me a bunch of different things. so please be patient if I have questions or am confused.

Ask away. But like MrBond said, everyone has been telling you pretty much the same thing in this thread. Now you've mentioned going to other forums, perhaps you're getting different advice elsewhere. If so then you need to decide which approach you're going to pursue. All of us here that are talking to you are people who have intimate experience with DB'ing, we didn't just read the book, we are all living the process. It doesn't always work to bring your marriage back together, but it DOES always work to give you a positive outcome regardless of whether you reconcile or not. Because it's all about you- improving yourself, making yourself the best father, husband and person you can be.

I haven't located the thoughts and think my wife might have found them and tossed them. I asked her once and she acted like she didn't know what I was talking about.

Quit blaming your W for the loss of your notes. You do not know that she tossed them, all you know is that you lost them. Forget the notes, they don't matter. You own the book now, so just keep reading it. Don't just read it once and then throw it on a shelf. Read it over and over again.

I want to be a better dad and better man because they deserve it and so do I.

Good! Now write down here specifically what that means to you and let us comment on it. "Be a better dad and better man" is a great thought, but you need specific goals to get there. What exactly do you need to do to be a better dad? Make it a checklist. I don't know how many kids you have and their ages, but the list can be things like reading to them every night before bed, taking them to the zoo, flying kites at the park with them, taking them out to eat, going for a walk with them, etc. Keep your W informed of your activities, if you're taking them to the zoo this Saturday then let her know you plan on doing that. It's OK to invite W along as long as she knows you're going with or without her.

Tonight I backed off my wife tonight. No following, giving her space. I tried to be friendly and upbeat

Good. Now keep doing that, and remember, it takes months of consistent behavior before she starts believing you've changed. Don't do it for a week and revert back to old habits.

but I do admit that I went in the bathroom to cry after the kids went to bed. I was so ashamed to be a grown man crying in the bathroom.

Why the shame? Forget what your dad taught you about crying. It's an emotional outlet and it is required in situations like this. It is normal and it is part of the healing process. Do try to cry in private, but don't be ashamed of it. It's healthy.

I also was trigged every time my wife was texting someone- I made a mistake and asked her if she was texting her sister. she said no and that was that.

Don't forget the DB 180 tips. I posted them all on page 3 of this thread. Memorize them. Live them. Don't ask her stuff like this, it's pressure and you want to remove pressure from her, not add more.

i was also triggered when my wife asked our oldest to get someone out of HER room and not Mommy and daddy's room.

You're going to need to get used to that. The two of you are already separated as far as she's concerned. Yes it's upsetting, but don't let it show.

I also asked to talk about the computer issue. I told her that I need access to the computer and since we split the bills she had no right to put a lock on it.

I don't understand your desire to get on that computer, is it for more snooping? You seem to post here a lot, what are you using?

she said I acted like a complete azz. I apologized for that and she looked stunned.

Doing 180's will sometimes have that effect. But you have got to be consistent!

In the mean time, I worked on a exercise plan - that includes walking 3+ miles every other day, and on the off days, I will do some light weights and stuff.

Good! Start today and stick with it!!

Always remember- DB'ing is all about action, not words. And it has got to be consistent actions.

29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.

[Many worries]

Mr. Bond. AS I should write more clear. I mean that there are a lot of questions and I have a hard time keeping them straight. You guys are right that people are telling me basically the same thing, but I feel like I have 4-5 people asking me questions and that is hard to keep straight.

As, I will try to address your comments questions.

1. I wasn't blaming my wife for anything just trying to clarify where I was since 25 ask if I had read DB. I was trying to explain things.

2. Being a better person means, not getting mad. Not expressing negative thoughts to other people. not being critical of other people. being happier, healthier. Being a better dad means that I try to spend some time with the kids each and every day, try to play games/video games/ or something with them. Treat them with love and caring. Being a better husband is on the shelf for now because I don't have a marriage anymore. I think that if I am a better father and person, the husband thing will follow.

3. As far as the computer, my wife did put a passcode, but I figured on a work around so I could use this forum and go on the internet. I need the computer to go on the internet and email. I did use it to snoop, I admit. But 25 said that I was still not being honest with my wife buy using the workaround. So I decided to ask her about it straight up. I haven't used it to snoop, but I still need the computer to use. I was pretty proud that I was able to ask her about it instead of yelling and accusing things gain.

Mr. Bond.

you said that my wife didn't need to change. I don't know about that. I mean if I found out she had a physical affair and didn't want to end it. That would have to change. I would not want to be in a marriage where I shared my wife sexually with other men. Also, she has been good about keeping a lid on her temper, but she has said some mean things to me. If she continued that even after I changed, then I don't think I could be in a marriage like that. it's probably not a good idea to tell her.

Last night, I helped put the kids to bed again. when I was done I went to the kitchen to clean up. My wife came in and said "trying to score brownie points?" I said no and that I appreciated all the work she did with the house over the years and it's time that I start pulling my weight. She then said 'you know it's probably too little too late."
I said, "I understand why you'd feel that way. I wasn't a very good partner. I'm sorry."
She said, "it's bout time you figured it out."

She left then came in and said something curious about 5 mins later. She said 'maybe we should see someone" I didn't want to pursue so I let the comment lie and didn't address it. I just says "maybe"


Then I watched the Descendents - good flick, but it hit a little too close to home for me. Except I'm not a multimillionaire in hawaii. LOL.

[AnotherStander]

but I feel like I have 4-5 people asking me questions and that is hard to keep straight.

You don't have to answer all the questions, they are meant to make you think. But sometimes typing out an answer will help you with your thought process.

Being a better person means, not getting mad. Not expressing negative thoughts to other people. not being critical of other people. being happier, healthier.

Good start. Write things like this down to remind yourself daily of what your goals are and how to act. But be as specific as you can, instead of having a goal of "be healthier" have a goal of "losing X number of pounds by (date)" and then break that down into an action plan (walk 3 miles on M, W, F, cut sugary drinks from diet, etc).

Being a better dad means that I try to spend some time with the kids each and every day, try to play games/video games/ or something with them.

I play video games with S9, but it's not what I really consider quality time, I just do it because he enjoys it. Try to mix that with quality time activities like those I mentioned before. Do something that gets you out of the house and exercising with them. Take them to a playground, a park, a walk around the block, swimming, etc.

Treat them with love and caring.

This is a byproduct of spending quality time with them.

Being a better husband is on the shelf for now because I don't have a marriage anymore.

Don't look at it like that, look at it like it's in trouble and you're working on it. You CAN be a better husband NOW. That would be a 180 for you, would it not? Have you read the 5 Love Languages? That's something else you might look into, it gives great tips for showing your W love even when separated.

I think that if I am a better father and person, the husband thing will follow.

Yup!

you said that my wife didn't need to change. I don't know about that.

For now she has no interest in changing, she sees YOU as the problem. You need to work on you, not worry about what she needs to change. If and when you get to piecing then she'll need to address her issues as part of the reconciliation agreement.

when I was done I went to the kitchen to clean up. My wife came in and said "trying to score brownie points?" I said no and that I appreciated all the work she did with the house over the years and it's time that I start pulling my weight. She then said 'you know it's probably too little too late."

Good! Don't worry about her response, this is why we keep saying to give it time. She'll just see it as you trying to trick her into coming back initially. Stick with it.

She left then came in and said something curious about 5 mins later. She said 'maybe we should see someone" I didn't want to pursue so I let the comment lie and didn't address it. I just says "maybe"

Don't push it, just wait and see if she mentions it again. I'm not sure you're in a position right now where MC would help matters. Just stick to the DB'ing and have patience.

[MrBond]

"I think that if I am a better father and person, the husband thing will follow."

EXACTLY what everyone has been trying to tell you.

"you said that my wife didn't need to change. I don't know about that."

Yes she doesn't need to change. She doesn't HAVE to change. You put her in this position so it is her choice to live without you. If you change positively, she will WANT to change. Get it?

"Also, she has been good about keeping a lid on her temper, but she has said some mean things to me."

And so what? Stop keeping score and be the better man. It seems like she only does it because it seems like the only way to get through to you. I've already noticed that.

"My wife came in and said "trying to score brownie points?" I said no and that I appreciated all the work she did with the house over the years and it's time that I start pulling my weight."

It's about time. Now the key is to do this consistently and not to let your "changes" go away.

"I understand why you'd feel that way. I wasn't a very good partner. I'm sorry."
She said, "it's bout time you figured it out."

Perfect thing to say.

"She left then came in and said something curious about 5 mins later. She said 'maybe we should see someone" I didn't want to pursue so I let the comment lie and didn't address it. I just says "maybe"

See? YOU change and then SHE changes.

[adinva]

Good job with the whole scene about helping in the kitchen. Nice!

[Many worries]

strange day.

So last night decide to try to make dinner and it ended up being a disaster. My wife comes home from work and I says "What's up, buttercup?" It's something I always used to say to her an it just kinda slipped out. I was trying so hard.
she looked confused, then hurt.
I thought to apologize for saying that then I decided that I didn't really have anything to apologize for. It was a slip of the tongue.
I just said, "I didn't mean to misspeak I know our relationship is is not at that level anymore. It won't happen again." Then I added stupidly, "until things are better."
She just looked at me and said "Really? I'm not doing this."
I sooooooo wanted to asks her what she meant by that, but I resisted. I claimed I had forgotten something in the car and went out side. I wanted to compose myself and not react.

after dinner, I noticed that she wasn't wearing her ring. I thought about getting the kids to ask in a round about way, but decided that was mighty stupid. so I excused myself. I looked all over the house, until I found the ring in the shelf in the shower. It looks like she just doesn't want to wear it anymore. I'm not cool with it, but I can't change it. I was forced to go into my car a gain to compose myself. I hate having to do that.

I played with the kids some and made my son do his homework. She got kinda mad at me but never said anything because I was a little strict with him. He wanted to watch tv and i had to keep reminding him to be on task. I wasn't mean to him or anything. sheeeese.

So then I'm getting ready for bed and I remember I needed something in our old room. I go up to the room and knock on the door. i don't hear anything so I open the door and when I come in she stops texting and slams down the phone. what was she doing????!!!

Then I decide to ask if I can give her a foot rub because she looked really tired and beat. She said yes, then it led to us being intimate. I've had a number of girlfriends and it felt like goodbye sex. I told her how much I missed us and how beautiful she was and she wasnt emotionally invested. I don't know why I did it other than it had been a couple of weeks. I don't know why she initiated or why I caved in. I wish I was stronger than that. But I am a guy after all. does this happen with a spouse who wants to separate? I think DB says it's up to the couple if they want to do it.

After,it was over I said, "I guess I'll be headed to my room." kinda hinting that I wanted to say in OUR bed. she just said. "Okay."

I was down. Lesson learned.

[MrBond]

I don't know what to say.

[25yearsmlc]

here is a post on DETACHMENT...

READ IT CAREFULLY!


"This was originally posted by Peanut.
============
II. Detachment
Detachment is critical to the process of altering and repairing a relationship.

Attached, we take personally all that is said, not said, done and not done. Our ego gets wounded and we say or do things that undermine our goals.

We can NOT control the actions of another. We are, however, responsible for our own actions. We are responsible for our own happiness.

If we are detached from the actions of another, we can meet anger or indifference with love.

Met with love, we are in a position to diffuse the situation and transform it in a way that will be in alignment with our goals. On the flipside, detachment allows us to play it cool when we do get a positive reaction from our spouse. It is a way to break the distance/pursuer cycle.

Detachment is not withdrawal. It is not the mind saying, "I am not getting what I want so I must pull back."

It is the natural acceptance of the reality that "I am alone responsible for how I act. I cannot control another person, but I can control how I respond to them."

[AnotherStander]

So last night decide to try to make dinner and it ended up being a disaster.

Why, because you called her buttercup? That's hardly a disaster. Or did you burn the food or something? Even burning the food wouldn't be a disaster, because at least you made an effort to cook (180).

My wife comes home from work and I says "What's up, buttercup?" It's something I always used to say to her an it just kinda slipped out. I was trying so hard. she looked confused, then hurt.

She looked "confused" and "hurt" because you called her buttercup? I think you're engaging in too much mind-reading.

I thought to apologize for saying that then I decided that I didn't really have anything to apologize for. It was a slip of the tongue.

Good, it was certainly nothing to apologize for. Seriously, it's not like you called her a b***h.

I just said, "I didn't mean to misspeak I know our relationship is is not at that level anymore. It won't happen again."

So you decided not to apologize, and then you apologized. You're really having trouble figuring this all out.

I thought about getting the kids to ask in a round about way, but decided that was mighty stupid.

You were right.

I was forced to go into my car a gain to compose myself.

Spending a lot of time in your car it sounds like.

i don't hear anything so I open the door and when I come in she stops texting and slams down the phone. what was she doing????!!!

Texting. Get used to it, WAS's love to text and they love to lock their phones so you can't see who they're talking to or what they're talking about. I think the whole sneaky secrecy thing is part of the appeal of being a WAS.

I told her how much I missed us and how beautiful she was and she wasnt emotionally invested.

Clearly you have not been reading the DB 180 tips daily. Read them, LIVE them.

does this happen with a spouse who wants to separate?

Yes, all the time.

[25yearsmlc]

Do you read my/our posts? Pay more attention.
Almost all of what happened in this post of yours (below) is the opposite of DBing and the opposite of what WE have been advising...DO NOT Blame DBing.

strange day.

So last night decide to try to make dinner and it ended up being a disaster.


The DINNER preparation was not a disaster. YOUR conversation and pursuit

and constant need for reassurance are the problem.


My wife comes home from work and I says "What's up, buttercup?" It's something I always used to say to her an it just kinda slipped out. I was trying so hard.
she looked confused, then hurt.

STOP MINDREADING...just drop it. It was NOT a big deal.


I thought to apologize for saying that then I decided that I didn't really have anything to apologize for. It was a slip of the tongue.

Okay I'll buy that it was a slip of the tongue. But then you HAD to talk some more...you made comments that were uncalled for and got you nowhere.


I just said, "I didn't mean to misspeak I know our relationship is is not at that level anymore. It won't happen again." Then I added stupidly, "until things are better."

WTH? To put it bluntly, and I think I have to, Learn to Shut the he11 up. This is you wanting HER to fulfill YOUR NEED to be reassured, which she clearly is NOT up for doing now. Stop pushing for her to meet your needs.



She just looked at me and said "Really? I'm not doing this."
I sooooooo wanted to asks her what she meant by that, but I resisted. I claimed I had forgotten something in the car and went out side. I wanted to compose myself and not react.

She probably felt like you were 1) faking happy marriage and then 2) wanting her to reassure you, again...in front of the kids...and she's not interested in that now. She wants HER needs met for awhile.

Not a lot of mystery here. You are just making things between you and your wife a lot worse.

Again, learn to just hold your tongue a lot more.



after dinner, I noticed that she wasn't wearing her ring. I thought about getting the kids to ask in a round about way, but decided that was mighty stupid. so I excused myself.


Since I cannot even relate to the urge to involve the CHILDREN in this type of issue, I'm almost too stunned to react to your selfish neediness & fears...

Why would you EVER involve your children in this?

Get a grip!

Take some medications b/c in my humble opinion, the idea that you would CONSIDER involving them, is so unhealthy you need to do whatever it takes to stop acting like a clingy needy weakling, which is how you are coming across.

NOT good for the kids...


I looked all over the house, until I found the ring in the shelf in the shower.

1) this ^^^ is obsessive unhealthy behavior.

2) and like MANY of us, we take our rings off if we're using soap (b/c soap and shampoo dull the stones and make it slippery) b/c we worry about it going down the drain.

Ironically, finding it in the shower is about the BEST place you could have found it

but YOU managed to mind read, NEGATIVELY (of course) and now it's a big bad thing...

Hey, this is a self inflicted wound of yours, again. LEARN.


It looks like she just doesn't want to wear it anymore.



1) no it doesn't! And even if it did, 2) so what if it does?

You know she's not happy right now BUT it's NOT the signal for adultery YOU think it is. I took mine off and put it back on at least 10 times...I never slept with OM.

Stop spiraling out of control with the obsessing. Get A Life asap b/c you are making yourself nuts.


I'm not cool with it, but I can't change it. I was forced to go into my car a gain to compose myself. I hate having to do that.

Look at your wording...you were "Forced" inth your car to get yourself together b/c you found your wife's wedding ring in the shower...

Do you have a diagnosis? If not, please see a doctor asap. SERIOUSLY...

Work this "stinking thinking" out of your system with cognitive therapy and or medication, b/c you are really not acting healthy or rational.

Get a grip and get on some medication so you don't keep blowing it. If I sound like I'm "pro drug" that is not really the case.

But they do serve a purpose and one purpose is to keep you from blowing things. You are making your situation worse. A LOT WORSE and it is YOU who is doing that.

I played with the kids some and made my son do his homework. She got kinda mad at me but never said anything because I was a little strict with him. He wanted to watch tv and i had to keep reminding him to be on task. I wasn't mean to him or anything. sheeeese.

Unless SHE SAID something to you, I have no idea if any of your concerns are valid at all.

And even if they are, get a thicker skin. If you were NOT rough with your son, then don't worry about it b/c it's not true and all you are reacting to is your mind reading of her facial expressions. Since I KNOW you mind read too much and you are not accurate with it, I'm inclined to think you are creating this whole NON event.

IF you WERE TOO rough or hard on him, take in her "feedback" (Which we are not sure she gave...) and maybe consider changing your approach. Yeah, maybe YOU Could do that...

What if she was concerned that you were too harsh and therefore making homework a nasty ordeal instead of a decent bonding experience? What then?

Are you so defensive and ready to pounce (or hide in the car) that you cannot handle some valid feedback?

That's not adult behavior on your end. That has nothing to do with your wife. This is about YOU.

Make your son the priority in this scenario, not your hyper sensitive feelings and easily brusied ego.


So then I'm getting ready for bed and I remember I needed something in our old room. I go up to the room and knock on the door. i don't hear anything so I open the door and when I come in she stops texting and slams down the phone. what was she doing????!!!


Who knows? Who cares? At least she wasn't doing it in front of you.

Read the post I JUST SENT YOU on Detachment...take it in or I'm going to stop posting b/c I now wonder if there is any point in this.

you do not listen to us. You just spiral out of control w/fear, and it's like you are covering your ears & closing your eyes, b/c you don't want to hear what ANYONE has to say to you

unless we all agree that you are a victim...a powerless victim...

and I reject that. You are creating your own mess. Til you see that, you will stay stuck in your "Victimville: population YOU".



Then I decide to ask if I can give her a foot rub because she looked really tired and beat. She said yes, then it led to us being intimate. I've had a number of girlfriends and it felt like goodbye sex.

Wow, you do NOT listen. SIGH...

1)...you overtly pursued, so that was needy and against DBing.

Then, b/c she let you rub her feet you felt you 2) HAD to have sex (which I believe was your real goal & it's why you pursued her)

and 3) THEN you decided to mind read about sex and turn it into a negative by reading into things and determining it was "goodbye sex"...

NOT healthy behavior...


I told her how much I missed us and how beautiful she was and

excuse me for being blunt, again, but learn to hold your tongue. When you say things like that, it's clear you want her to reciprocate. If you felt the sex had NOT been good, why say these things? My guess is the sex was fine but b/c you said those things and she did not reciprocate, you spun this into a totally negative event, which you also created.

Why do you pretend this "happened" as if you were not an active participant?


she wasnt emotionally invested. Did SHE SAY this or is it MORE mind reading? Or do you mean she did not say romantic things back to you?

Can't you see how much damage YOU DO by instigating these events, then having expecations AND THEN negatively interpreting so much? You are like a walking self fulfilling prophecy.

I don't know why I did it other than it had been a couple of weeks.

so you were horny and could not control yourself? That's what "other than it had been a couple of weeks" means to me.

That is not attractive or mature. It's not helping you reconcile, is it?

I don't know why she initiated or why I caved in. I wish I was stronger than that. But I am a guy after all. does this happen with a spouse who wants to separate? I think DB says it's up to the couple if they want to do it.


Um, who said SHE inititated it? I'd say YOU Did, b/c you sought out the physical contact by asking her if you could give her a foot rub. Then she reciprocated in some way...

Second, "I am a guy after all" is an absurd thing to say as if it justifies making a weak choice.

I served in the first Gulf War. That type of comment is what men in the middle east use as their excuse for raping women who show their wrists or ankles, as if being a man means not being able to control yourself.

To me, that is the opposite of what a man is. A real man is in control of himself and not trying to control another person.
[color:#FF0000]
As for what DBing advises, it's intensely personal but their advice is that

It depends! 1) how does ML make you feel AFTERWARDS? (If you feel used or weak, it's not healthy).

2) IF physical touch and sex were HER love languages, OR If it makes you feel more connected to the other person, then maybe it's good.

YOU clearly do not feel good about it AND you don't feel you two reconnected, so LEARN FROM THAT. Your reasons for ML were physical and emotional. And now you feel worse.

Again, learn...which means taking in NEW information and changing how you react to the next similar situation.




[/color]


After,it was over I said, "I guess I'll be headed to my room." kinda hinting that I wanted to say in OUR bed. she just said. "Okay."

I was down. Lesson learned.