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Did she ever do anything to show that the A had ended?

You asked me how my stitch turned around. I guess everyone thinks their's is different, but as of today, I have not read any other that is quite like mine.

I chose to stay in the M after I received help from people here on the board. I learned a lot! I made the decision based on what was "the right thing to do", and not on my feelings. I asked my H if he would go with me to a MC and he refused. So, my therapy was here on the board.

My H did stop his controlling and smothering behavior. He finally realized he could not make me love him, so he backed off. I know I really hurt him. We had always had complete trust in each other....and I messed that up.

One of the things he tried to do (when he was trying to catch me contacting OM) was to stand behind me when I was on the computer. He was watching to see what I was doing....and to see if OM was contacting me. In fact, I was in the middle of talking to OM and when H came behind me, I immediately clicked to another window on the computer. But, the OM was didn't know what was going on and he was chatting with me and his message came up on the screen. Bad night! Anyway, when I ended the A, I always made sure that all my computer activity & history was open for him to read. Whenever he came and stood behind me, I never stopped or changed screens. I know he searched to see what activity I did every day, and I knew he had to do that to see that I had truly ended the A. I stopped all suspcious behavior, like shutting the door when I wanted time alone to contact OM, and things like that. Even today, I keep my email password taped on the computer for him to see. That's my way of showing him that I'm open and have nothing to hide from him.

If a person wants to continue an A, they will figure out how to do it and the S can't really stop it by watching the phone bills or searching for new emails. But I chose to end it and I wanted my H to know I was being honest with him. I didn't want to talk about the OM and my H didn't discuss him with me. He had already read about everything in the emails. The OM was not our problem, and we had talked about the real problem between us. I think if we had went to MC after I was willing to end the A, it would have helped us to progress faster. But we are still together and I am the one who is grateful.

She may have ended the A but doesn't want to think about the OM and what happened, IDK. But if she continued to act suspicious, then I would wonder if she was still in contact with him. I went through withdrawal symptoms and I don't know if I could have made it if it had not been for the encouragement from this board. They explained what was happening to me and why. They told me what to expect and what to do when it happened.

It was a long, hard stuggle but we made it. That is why I always say that it takes much longer than the newcomer ever dreams. Sometimes the D is stopped before it's finalized, but it always takes time to heal and to work through the problems.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Sandi2,

btw - her lawyer is female, and mice male. does that matter?

Is her anger hurt in disguise?

I don't want her to hurt. She said earlier today, she cares about the kids and not a damn about me. That hurt but tried not to show it. She yelled at me in front of the kids.

She really thinks I was the problem in the M, and her only mistake was the A. Therapy did not get that through to her either. Both therapists told her it was 50/50 and she debated both.


M17 yrs.
me49
xW47
d15
d11

BD1-Jul/11(Affair found out)
Therapy 9 months (tried 2)
BD2- May/12(sep)
Court Jul/13 - I got 50/50
Sold home - Aug/13
Court #2 - Dec/13
Court#3 - Apr/14 ... She lost again
We settled.
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 642
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Sorry typo...'mine is male', not mice is male...lol. I needed the laugh.


M17 yrs.
me49
xW47
d15
d11

BD1-Jul/11(Affair found out)
Therapy 9 months (tried 2)
BD2- May/12(sep)
Court Jul/13 - I got 50/50
Sold home - Aug/13
Court #2 - Dec/13
Court#3 - Apr/14 ... She lost again
We settled.
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 642
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Hi Sandi2,

No, she never did do anything to show or prove the A was over. I had to take her word on it. Neither therapist ever pushed her to either. They just said in front of her and I that she wouldn’t do it again and the first one said “if she did “she’d be stupid”. She was never pushed to prove it. She certainly did not offer me the openness you gave your H. My wife was adamant about her privacy and her right to secrecy and not share this information. The first therapist backed her up on this and I was astounded.
She did tell me early on she missed him and felt some loss but it was all fantasy. She said she did not love him. She did say she wanted to not think about it anymore and put it all behind, but it was never really dealt with and the therapists warned if not then what is happening now will happen. She just kept saying “I will do it my way”.

Both therapists and my lawyer have told me privately that I am one patient and understanding man and she does not see that.

Do you love your H now?


M17 yrs.
me49
xW47
d15
d11

BD1-Jul/11(Affair found out)
Therapy 9 months (tried 2)
BD2- May/12(sep)
Court Jul/13 - I got 50/50
Sold home - Aug/13
Court #2 - Dec/13
Court#3 - Apr/14 ... She lost again
We settled.
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
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Yes, I love him very much. I believe if couples are together a long time that they will go though different periods of adjustment b/c we change as we face different trials in life. It seems like every few years there comes something different into the life of the couple. Just growing up....and then growing old changes us, and if we don't find a way to adjust to those changes...it breaks us apart. I am not that 18 year old girl he M, and neither is he that 22 year old man. We were kids when we M, and if we didn't grow together....we would have grown without each other.

I have to close down for tonight, but I wanted to tell you that it is possible to come together again. It's extremely tough after an A. Both of you have to do a work within yourselves....b/c each of you have painful issues, and there will be work to do as a couple. I have had so many people ask me how long it took us, and I didn't want to tell them b/c I didn't want to discourage them. I think it's always much longer than they believe it would be! At times you feel like no progress is being made at all. Maybe the baby-steps are so small you aren't sure that a step was made! But when you look at where you were during the worst of the worst.....then you can see just how far you've really come.

I hope to get a chance to post tomorrow, b/c I am concerned about your W.

Take care of yourself.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Thanks Sandi2. I sense the warmth in you that you have for him. That is a nice story, I am very happy it worked out.
My wife is definitely focussed on D and nothing else. She wants nothing to do with reconciliation and it is getting very legal and contentious. Financials will soon be settled by Jan but I think it will go to court over the kids. There is so much anger in her. I know and understand a lot of it pre-dates me and goes to her inner self and past as it comes out from time to time and the therapist that worked with us first said so too. We had done sessions as a couple and individually with that therapist. She refuses to acknowledge the past and how it affects the dynamic, but it creeps in when she rants. It took me a few months to grasp it last year, but I did. Just hadn’t mastered how to control it but am getting better at it. She firmly does not want to work as a couple. When she was begging for the M 7 months ago she was telling me and crying to me to give it 2 years as that is how long it took her sister (who also had an A) to fix their marriage. I bought into her 2 year plan, and agreed with her cries of “separation and divorce is stupid!” She gave up less than 2 months later (8 months in total since A was revealed). She feels going through a D and the process is better than the heartache. I don’t think she realizes as I learned from others that a D never really goes away. It will be years at least.
Everyone from family and our close mutual friends keep telling me I am a good man, and don’t deserve this and they don’t even know of the A.
It is so strange. The house is for sale and I don’t think it will be long before it sells. It is just a house, but my children know it as home. If it meant to sell it to get out of debt but stay together, I would be all for it.


M17 yrs.
me49
xW47
d15
d11

BD1-Jul/11(Affair found out)
Therapy 9 months (tried 2)
BD2- May/12(sep)
Court Jul/13 - I got 50/50
Sold home - Aug/13
Court #2 - Dec/13
Court#3 - Apr/14 ... She lost again
We settled.
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,041
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Floyd,
Thanks for sharing your sitch.

Mine is similar, although I am the W who had the A. Currently we are kind of where you were at first - W begging and pleading and my H has the anxiety/trust issues. This is our second go round with breach of trust and it wasn't really resolved the first time.

She may have a lot of guilt around your anxiety. I know that I had so much guilt around my H's anxiety that I simply could not deal with it and just completely shut down around that subject. He felt rejected/neglected that I couldn't be empathetic to his anxiety, and it made everything worse. She simply may be unable to be there for you on that because she caused the problem. It's unfortunate but probably true.

Sounds like she has guilt on the trust stuff too. Face it, she was dumb to have an A. It hurt you, it damaged your marriage - and now she's at risk for losing everything. (I can say this because I'm living it). However, she doesn't sound like the type who is willing to really dig deep and admit her faults, so her best option is out. Yes, I totally sympathize with your W and I agree with what others have said - women have A's because they feel emotionally neglected, not because they are looking for sex. But what have you done to NOT make her feel emotionally neglected?

Yes, you're justified in not trusting her. And it's good you've owned your portion. Not sure why she decided to cut and run though (other than her own guilt)... it sounds like you've done more than your share of work to resolve the issues (My H couldn't get through After the Affair and hasn't accepted any portion of the blame for the A - he thinks I'm 100% wrong and is very punitive).

I'd say think of her as a teenager. You know how they say that if you want your kids to talk to you, don't pressure them? Just hang out with them? Same for your W. Just create a neutral space for her. It's hard to back off esp when you see your M crumbling, but I believe this is what you must do. Be that amazing H, GAL, do your thing, move forward as best you can, but keep the light on for her.


Me54, H53
M 23, T 25
S20, S18
BD: April 2024
Moved out: August 2024

Love means not giving up on someone even if they've given up on you.

"Being right is the booby prize of life." - Susan Page
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Thanks RegretfulLA. Do you really still love your H and want it to work? If so, the only advice I can give to you is be an open book for him. Share everything. No secrecy. You obviously need some privacy (like this board or friends or family to confide in) but just assure him it is communication to help you both and he should understand that. I would have if that were presented to me. Yes, he will need reassurance, at least for a while. I wish I had that communication from my W. Maybe that is all she was doing, but who knows?
What made you come home? Are you slowly working to join rooms again?
For us, it was definitely 50/50 on the neglect prior to A. I just chose other outlets like coaching kids baseball at a high level (2 teams) etc. I did miss our R and did feel resentment. I just assumed that was my lot in life. It was bad on me for not communicating that and bad on her for same, though she won’t accept this as 50/50. Therapist #1 after a couple months tried to explain this to her and W crossed her arms, leaned back , furrowed her brow and said, “No, more like 90/10”... Therapist again repeated it and she scoffed. I really think I spoiled her in so many ways in the M, but maybe more superficially/materially. She can be very controlling, though she says I am. Funny, that #1 Therapist who was tough and direct told me once in a one-on-one that it is kinda my fault for letting her control me for so long and it has become her habit.
Your Q) I stopped coaching as much, added more home duties, I was there for her to listen to her work day/problems, helped her with her work. I gave her all my time and attention and spoiled her. She loved me bringing her coffee in bed every morning to wake her up (though I did this all our marriage). Did things she likes (shopping, going out for dinner, movies). There were daily good morning and goodnight kisses….often she would initiate that. We even got her a BMW that she always wanted less than 2 months before she quit. I was at her beck and call. I did everything she asked of me she said was missing, except the self- confidence piece.
A month before she called it off, she was running late for a 2-day business trip but raced back to our room, kissed me, looked at me square in the eye and said “I love you.” I asked, “Do you? Do your really?” which was obviously too needy but it just came out. She said “Yes. Yes I do and I am proud of you”. She made attempts at cuddling etc. last year which I like but then she said I became too needy and needed assurances all the time. This worsened as she got more distant and secretive wanting her privacy. We did have regular sex…more than most people I think. In hindsight, I did get clingy and needy and was never like that prior to the A, or any relationship I had in life. It really turned her off. She always liked my self-confidence, but that was shattered. For the first time in my life I was scared of something. With a shutdown one does feel very neglected/rejected. I can relate to your H there. I did bring up her A a few days prior to her ending it and said some words that threw guilt at her out of frustration of her avoiding the topic. I regret what I said, but it was out of hurt and frustration. I remember a line from After the Affair, something like: “Don’t listen to the harsh words your partner says to you, but rather the hurt behind them”.
It took my wife a month to read After the Affair, and she did not like it. Said it was psychobabble and only other people’s experiences. It was one of 4 things that turned me around…Wife, kids, therapist, God. I did pressure, and that drove/drives her nuts. I fear the back-off now is too late. There is so much anger and spite in her. She won’t look at me now or give me the time of day. She is just focussed on heading for a D and wants freedom and independence. Though she will need to count on me for $ and kids support whenever she needs.
Your insight from your perspective is so helpful. Any more is appreciated.
Anyone else’s is appreciated too.


M17 yrs.
me49
xW47
d15
d11

BD1-Jul/11(Affair found out)
Therapy 9 months (tried 2)
BD2- May/12(sep)
Court Jul/13 - I got 50/50
Sold home - Aug/13
Court #2 - Dec/13
Court#3 - Apr/14 ... She lost again
We settled.
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 642
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So last night, my wife got into a car accident (very minor) as it turns out thankfully. She phoned to tell what happened and that she could not pick up our younger daughter in time for gymnastics, and I had to take our 14 yr old to the doctor also. I was already doing those 2 duties as I did not hear from her all day anyway to coordinate … never do anymore and if I reach out she does not typically respond. This is one of the co-parenting issues I mentioned in an earlier post. I talked with her on the phone and she was describing the fender-bender. I kept asking if she was okay and if she needed a lift or see a doctor (not in too obsessive way, I don’t think). She kept insisting she was fine and she was waiting for the police and she was okay to get home refusing my offers of help. Later she texted me and said the car needed to be towed because the front wheel was damaged. I texted her back again asking if she was sure she was all right and needed a ride and get checked out. She replied that she was ‘all good’ and that she was “arranging for a rectal”. TYPO!!! … She meant ‘rental’. Boy did I laugh at that and replied with “enjoy!” with some smiley faces. She did not reply. I started to worry she would think I was callous but meant it in good humor. I made dinner for the kids and I had a plate for her when she got home. When she did she was in good spirits for her day and we went over what happened and insurance info etc. Then she laughed and giggled and said how funny the typo was and laughed with me like she had not done in 8 months. We were cordial for the first time in a while and when I went to lay down with the younger one later for a bedtime reading she asked if she could instead as she was leaving for 3 a day business trip this morning. I yielded politely and said “of course”. (we have been immature lately fighting for the kids attention). This morning as she left, she actually said “Okay, bye” in a reasonably pleasant tone. It has been months since a ‘hello’ or ‘goodbye’ of any kind. I simply replied with a “See you later, and have fun”. She will be back Friday. I have been trying the 180 and Last Resort Technique the last few weeks….does this contradict this?


M17 yrs.
me49
xW47
d15
d11

BD1-Jul/11(Affair found out)
Therapy 9 months (tried 2)
BD2- May/12(sep)
Court Jul/13 - I got 50/50
Sold home - Aug/13
Court #2 - Dec/13
Court#3 - Apr/14 ... She lost again
We settled.
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,041
Likes: 17
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Hi Floyd,
Sorry about your wife's car accident, hope she is ok.

I think it's great that she's warming up a little - laughing and saying bye to you. (My H just left to go out and said bye to me too - actually poked his head in the room). Telling her "See you later and have fun" sounds like perfect DB to me. Detachment is not about being cold or rude. It's just treating your spouse like the neighbor down the street.

So to answer your questions -
I do love my H and want it to work, though I'm highly doubtful that it will work in the long run. IMO H has a lot of growing up to do. I know that sounds like I'm passing the buck and not taking responsibility. But I just don't see him being able to put his own sh!t aside for the greater good of the M - which is what we BOTH have to do.

I came home because I felt it was my right to do so. He threw me out at the beginning of the summer and I complied out of desperation. I stayed at my dad's house for 3 months. We did not have a proper sep. agreement; I didn't have an apartment or anything like that. It was a horrible arrangement. I missed my kids and it was very hard on them. H was not happy when I moved home but I decided I didn't care.

I would love nothing more than to sleep in my own bed. H is holding that over me however. He's "not ready." Of course, if I insisted that he sleep in the guest room, he'd say that I'm not taking his feelings into account. So I am stuck in here.

Interesting that you each feel the other is "controlling" - I'd say we have that going on too. We do not know how to compromise and someone has to have their way so it always seems to one that the other is being controlling.

So, you said that one of the things that turned her off was your lack of self-confidence. You are such a perfect candidate for DB. If you do it properly, you get that self-confidence back, and that's the goal - to get it back FOR YOU. The gravy is that your W notices it too and you become so much more attractive.

If you can do some GAL and just do your own thing, happily, your W may come back to you sooner than you think. She will not want to see you happy without her since you made it sound like you treated her like the sun rose and set on her. She may be testing you a little bit.

When I had my first EA, I felt same around my H. He became clingy/needy and it was a turn off. But he did step up to the plate enough for me to give the R another try. It sounds like you are way past that with her though. I would not be surprised if she's got an OM waiting in the wings, based on what you've said. Could be that she doesn't want to accept anything "rational" because then she will have to change her tune and she won't have a good excuse anymore to run away from you.


Me54, H53
M 23, T 25
S20, S18
BD: April 2024
Moved out: August 2024

Love means not giving up on someone even if they've given up on you.

"Being right is the booby prize of life." - Susan Page
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