He's Just Not That Into You - The Sequel

[25yearsmlc]

AMEN TO THIS! ^^^

It's NOT using sex as a weapon, which is done a lot around here. I'd tell you if I believed that, in a heartbeat.

This is more about self respect and just being treated like a wife should be. If you don't act as if you deserve that, he probably won't either.

Good luck.

[mamabird]

Thanks 25 and BD for dropping by. I always appreciate it!

In a nutshell, 25, forgiveness is key. I see that so much around here. It is a critical ingredient for success.

Unfortunately, as some of you may have guessed, my H is a big grudge holder and he is not very good at forgiveness, so I think this is going to be the big struggle for us. And yes, if my H can't manage to forgive, there's going to come a point where I will say, "Enough is enough," and then I will have to move along. I'm not willing to stick this out indefinitely... only until I stop seeing positive changes.

25, you said, "Are you sure he wants a loving R with you?" The answer is no, not at all. At this point he'd say he didn't want that. He did say that he wanted a loving R (in general) and he did say that he does not want to D because of the boys. What's missing is his willingness to TRY WITH ME right now.

I agree that I've said my mea culpa's until I'm blue in the face. I agree that I'm being punished and allowing it. I'm not trying to dispute any of that... just trying to gauge how long to let this go on - will he get it out of his system at some point?

It's true that he may feel that I have an agenda when I show him affection. Lately I haven't really been feeling like it so we haven't been as close. Which is fine. I think I have to go more by my feelings on that one. I am trying not to put expectations around it, but I admit I do feel disappointed because he doesn't usually reciprocate unless he wants to ML, and that is getting old.

To that end - thank you Breakdown for pointing out that I'm really setting a boundary around that. It is about time, I think - but I wasn't really ready to do that before. I'm getting to the point where I'm starting to care less about what he thinks or does. I guess that's detachment.

Today we got into it, first time in a while. Stupid thing. H uses hypodermic needles to take B12 shots and also testosterone shots. As one would predict, he is pretty neglectful about getting rid of the needles. The other day I found a whole shoebox full of needles, packed in a box that we moved from our old house to our new house, almost a year ago. I asked him this morning to please get rid of them.

He went to the drugstore to do that, and on his way out, I said, "Do you have your needles?" His reply was (snarky tone), "You really need to watch what you blurt out around the house."

Ok - is it me??? I seriously DO NOT get this.

The boys were playing, not listening at all, and after all, they are only 9 and 6, and furthermore, why would they know to associate any stigma with a needle? Furthermore there SHOULDN'T be any shame here because he uses the needles legitimately.

So I said to him, "Huh?"

He repeated himself. I started to sort of argue the point with him, at which time he said, "This is never going to work," and walked out the door.

Then, breaking all DB rules, I followed him out the door and just engaged. I guess I am seriously tired of having to "accept" all of the above. I think actually I'm pretty angry right under the surface of all this "acceptance." That's an issue. I don't feel heard either and I sense that this is kind of a no-win situation.

I know I SHOULD HAVE said, "Yes, darling, of course, how could I be so insensitive?" But I was so taken aback at the absurdity of the whole thing... and he has this way of attacking that pushes me right into aggressor mode.

Well, the boys were not letting us have the conversation, so when H got back I told him the following:

"Please do not say, 'this will never work, you will never change,' or walk out the door in the middle of a conversation. It really slows down the process here."

He seemed receptive to that, though not really apologetic or remorseful. We'll see how the rest of the day/evening goes. My father is taking the boys to dinner and he asked me, "Why don't you and H go out to dinner?" My reply was, "We'll see you at 5:30, Dad." Dad wants to help but he just does not get it.

[JuneReN]

[/color]I agree that I've said my mea culpa's until I'm blue in the face. I agree that I'm being punished and allowing it. I'm not trying to dispute any of that... just trying to gauge how long to let this go on - will he get it out of his system at some point?

[color:#000000] Think about this...hard. You've taken the blame and apologized; he is not ready to forgive you. Now what?

[JuneReN]

agree that I've said my mea culpa's until I'm blue in the face. I agree that I'm being punished and allowing it. I'm not trying to dispute any of that... just trying to gauge how long to let this go on - will he get it out of his system at some point?

Think about this...hard. You've taken the blame and apologized; he is not ready to forgive you. Now what?

[Breakdown]

His reply was (snarky tone), "You really need to watch what you blurt out around the house."

Ok - is it me??? I seriously DO NOT get this.

It's a bit of both honestly. I can see that type of reaction (on both your parts) in myself and my W over the years. Frankly, it's a lack of communication.

Clearly your H is concerned about the needles being common knowledge for some reason....but what is the reason? You've already justified it not being an issue in your mind, so you've discounted his feelings without even discussing them.

If your H would have said something like "Hon, would you please not mention that in front of the kids. I'm worried about what the kids might think or say to their friends since we haven't discussed it with them" I seriously doubt you would have been like "what's the big deal?" He would have clearly expressed why he didn't want it known to the world and you would understand and likely be considerate of his feelings (whether you agreed with it or not).

[mamabird]

If your H would have said something like "Hon, would you please not mention that in front of the kids. I'm worried about what the kids might think or say to their friends since we haven't discussed it with them" I seriously doubt you would have been like "what's the big deal?" He would have clearly expressed why he didn't want it known to the world and you would understand and likely be considerate of his feelings (whether you agreed with it or not).

EXACTLY!!! I would not have given it a second thought. Rational explanation! Unfortunately, my H rarely speaks to me that way, although, the other day he did, when I was yelling at the kids and he told me (calmly) that it was not helping and it was only making matters worse. I guess this kind of communication takes practice.

One of his lame comments during this argument was "save it for therapy," and I went back to him later and said, "No, we should not save it for therapy. We need to work out the issues as they arise so resentments don't build up." First he just said OK, but I realize he says that sometimes just to shut me up, not because he actually agrees.

I have been thinking all day about what's been transpiring on this thread. I noticed I was feeling pretty resentful as H took his nap then watched TV while all the clean clothes that I was washing piled up on the bed... (they are still there in a pile, it doesn't occur to him to fold them. I guess I should have asked him to do it but I normally do it).

Think about this...hard. You've taken the blame and apologized; he is not ready to forgive you. Now what?

Well, I guess it is just a matter of time at this point. Either he chooses to forgive me or he doesn't. It's almost like a beat the clock game: if I want to win, H has to forgive me before my patience runs out. The thing is, I can't put a time limit on it right now. I might be able to wait 6 more months, or a year, or 5 years... who knows. I do know I don't like how things are right now, and I do know that my patience is going to run out at some point.

I do feel very frustrated and powerless in this situation. At one point, one of my friends told me that H and I were in a power struggle and his "kicking me out" was a shift of power. When I moved back in, he lost some of that power. Now I think he's trying to maintain his power by keeping me on the sofa bed, by keeping his ring off, etc...

I also think it's probably time for a DB coach. This is all getting too nuanced for me to handle on my own.

[Breakdown]

I guess this kind of communication takes practice.

It really does. We spent decades learning to communicate the wrong way...it doesn't turn around immediately, and our emotions will still get the best of us occasionally, as will our bad habits. Too often I think we expect our spouse to mind read...we're too impatient to clearly express our feelings.

I also think it's probably time for a DB coach. This is all getting too nuanced for me to handle on my own.

I highly recommend. When I'm in a rut and really not sure which direction I should be going, this has really helped me. If you do, make sure you spend some time prepping though.

[subguy]

I am trying to actually imagine myself dropping a rope when I am tempted to overstep my bounds.

Wow I love that, I'm going to use it. I love the visual, gonna practice doing that and make it a habit.

[Wendylon]

Hi Regretful,

The needle incident is so typical of the kind of problem that I have with my H. (Funnily enough, he also takes testosterone.) I think of it as me falling into elephant traps that he has set. I don't see that they are there and manage to fall into them and really upset him. I don't understand why he is so upset and I feel doubly angry because he deals with his upset so aggressively and with such hostility.

It does sound like a great time for a coaching session. I do think you're on the right track but the patience required is huge and you will probably feel re-energized and motivated by a session.

[mamabird]

Well, today was a mixed bag. Every so often I just totally lose my cool and tonight was one of those nights.

Backing up a little. We had a little party at our house this morning. I did cookie decorating with the kids and a few other kids from the school came over. I made all the cookies and frosting, and had to get the table ready and the decorations and clean the house, etc.

H told me a few days ago he would help set up and clean up but he was not going to stick around for the party. Turns out that a lot of the dads showed up so I was able to convince H to stay. He even decorated a cookie or two. It was really fun, though H couldn't throw me much of a bone on any of it. I even said, "I did a good job!" and he barely responded.

What H did manage to do is complain that I hadn't cleaned up the upstairs of the house sufficiently for guests coming over. Mind you, he spent yesterday watching soccer and napping, while I worked my butt off getting everything else ready. He also complained that I hadn't bought enough food for the adults to nosh on. I told him I thought about it thoroughly but did take his suggestions into account. And I did ask him to fold the laundry this morning, which without complaint - so that's good. He came through on the party and helped, and I daresay he had fun too.

After the party though, he was being especially dicky. I just can't think of another way to say that. Just distant, resistant, icky = dicky. I made the mistake of asking him to rub my back since I'd been on my feet so much. He said, "Not right now." (instant reminder of right before our bomb when I asked him for a hug and he refused). I asked him again. He ignored me. I sat up. I looked at him. He ignored me. I asked him to put down his computer. He ignored me.

Suffice it to say this started what became a big discussion tonight. I'll say now it ended with a hug but I'm still so upset that I'm actually having a little drink to calm down. None of this is good DB but after reading everyone's posts here over the last few days, I was starting to feel a little more resentful than normal, and I guess I felt like I needed to stand up for myself a little.

I told my H that I was frustrated with this process. That I couldn't take his distant stance. He lay there with his arms crossed. I said I was doing my best but was frustrated because it's never good enough for him. I asked him if he would do some work outside of therapy - do a book together, perhaps, or spend some extra time talking. He said no, he would not be willing to do that.

Some other highlights of this wonderful discussion... communication came up and I had to force him to stick on topic there... he said (in all seriousness), "You think that if we had better communication our R would be better?" YES! I said. He just stared at me blankly. Breakdown, I used your example of how he could have been more gentle about the needle thing. He said he did know how to communicate properly and I asked him why he didn't do it then. He gave me some BS response which I don't even remember, but eventually, he did agree to be more respectful when we talk. At least I have the upper hand in this one area, but it's a big one I think.

Basically, what I gleaned from this conversation is that he does not want to be married to me (he said those words) but he's going through his own process to make sure that's right before rushing into anything. It does sound like his mind is made up. He is not willing, at this point, to give me the benefit of the doubt on any of my behavior or even anything that I say. So I asked him then why we were going to MC if he's not willing to do that. He just couldn't give me a good answer on that one.

He kept reiterating that he was on his own timeline and would do things in his own time. I can't really argue with that, but I still hold that he's not getting much of an outside perspective. He will always find ways to make me wrong, for instance, he said that the fact that I don't like our MC is an indicator that we shouldn't be together - we're too different. This is his whole way of thinking. If we disagree, we shouldn't be together because we're fundamentally too different. I am going a little nuts here.

I just can't imagine him wanting to work on this or being able to forgive me, so I guess that means I'm biding my time until we get a D. He did say my second EA was a direct attack on him and our M, and I guess he's right about that. It's just that I'm ready to rebuild and he is not.